System I don't think I understand this game.
- Thread starter GLoRToR
- Start date
Forgive me I should have been more specific:
Mash a single button, and pause the mashing of the said button from time to time. If you want you can throw when they inevitably hold, and the second you see them try to escape the jab, use your mid parry.
Mash a single button, and pause the mashing of the said button from time to time. If you want you can throw when they inevitably hold, and the second you see them try to escape the jab, use your mid parry.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Well this game does encourage mashing....it's not scrubby mashing, but kind of smart mashing if that makes anything sense.
No, it doesn't.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Well shoot me then.
David Gregg
Well-Known Member
The only character I could ever see this strategy possibly working for is Alpha and even that's questionable against a decent opponent.
I don't see how it's all that questionable, her P string has 7 different strikes to free cancel out of, all with exciting properties.
In the M.I.D.S.T of my mashing lies a B.U.R.S.T (if missed can easily be recovered with neutral throw because of the moves strange animation property) or a S.P.E.A.R if you go low.
Sometimes, I'm overwhelmed by pressure, but the second Alpha starts taking your life, you really have no idea if you're going to win. I think she should be nerfed more, but Team Ninja's logic on that is taking away stuff she didn't really need to begin with.
The secret to beating Alpha is thinking with a "greatest" mentality. You can't lose a shred of your health bar no matter what.
In the M.I.D.S.T of my mashing lies a B.U.R.S.T (if missed can easily be recovered with neutral throw because of the moves strange animation property) or a S.P.E.A.R if you go low.
Sometimes, I'm overwhelmed by pressure, but the second Alpha starts taking your life, you really have no idea if you're going to win. I think she should be nerfed more, but Team Ninja's logic on that is taking away stuff she didn't really need to begin with.
The secret to beating Alpha is thinking with a "greatest" mentality. You can't lose a shred of your health bar no matter what.
Wow death you're a rare alpha player. Most alpha players think she's terrible lol
I don't like many Alpha players. Most people use her with bad intentions, or for what they hope to be an easy win.
I use her because I actually like her. She's an evil clone of my favorite good character in the game, she makes people wallow in their sorrows, she's pure evil much like myself and she doesn't have to talk to express how evil she is.
If you don't understand this game, it's because the ground game sucks and it takes more skill to keep a combo. I'll just keep winning matches by mashing P. Once Team Ninja makes a legitimate game, I will become a legitimate player.
I use her because I actually like her. She's an evil clone of my favorite good character in the game, she makes people wallow in their sorrows, she's pure evil much like myself and she doesn't have to talk to express how evil she is.
If you don't understand this game, it's because the ground game sucks and it takes more skill to keep a combo. I'll just keep winning matches by mashing P. Once Team Ninja makes a legitimate game, I will become a legitimate player.
Interesting to see this side of you when I remember you fighting for her legitimacy. Well I'm taking you off my ignorant alpha player list lol.
I don't want her banned, and my defensive mode was on at full throttle. My character was at the biased hands of Lord Carl and everyone was poking at her with a pitch fork and using profane language that I didn't appreciate.
I have a detailed guide that I'm working on that explains where I think Alpha should go as a character, what nerfs she legitimately needs now, and what MINOR buffs she needs to balance out the offensive nerfs. I'll share it soon.
I have a detailed guide that I'm working on that explains where I think Alpha should go as a character, what nerfs she legitimately needs now, and what MINOR buffs she needs to balance out the offensive nerfs. I'll share it soon.
d3v
Well-Known Member
But that's the most legitimate reason for picking any character in any fighting game.
d3v
Well-Known Member
That's an ignorant and borderline scrubby thing to say.
Nobody who seriously wants to win at at tournament wants to have to fight it out ever match. No one wants to have to win from a disadvantage at every match. That's both mentally and physically exhausting. Exhaustion and stress lead to bad decisions and eventually losing matches. Now understand that the game, as with any fighting game, is based on matchups - knowing how to minimize your bad matchups is important and considered by many to be a skill in itself. Character choice can be just the first of many smart decisions that can lead to winning match and eventually a tournament.
I mean, look at Wednesday Night Fights. Who's been winning the event consistently? Hajin, who mains Ayane, a character who, by his own admission only has 1 bad matchup (Gen-Fu). Sure we can't discount the fact that Hajin in a damn good player (probably the best in the WC, or at least SoCal), but that doesn't discount the fact that he made a smart choice by sticking to Ayane.
Same old wrap. You say adapt until adapting requires more effort on your part, at which point you complain and then call everyone who disagrees with you a scrub.I'm not even going to break down why what you just said is absurd.
Go ahead and ask @iHajinShinobi if he would still use Ayane if she weren't "top/high tier" or if he'd cut and run, becuase I'm pretty sure his reasons for using Ayane isn't related to being a tier-whore.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
The idea that you should use a character because they provide easy wins is smart isn't sound. More often than not the character does more work that the player which in turn means the player sees little growth or development.
This is why you have Alpha, Rachel or Helena players that try to mimic the strong tactics other players develop but still get bodied because their core skills as players are garbage since more often than not the character has been holding their hand through the game.
That idea is the same reason why people have the concept of a recommended beginner character all wrong. A recommended beginner character isn't an character that's designed to get you easy wins; it's a character that is straightforward and allows you to learn and utilize the mechanics of the game while developing the core fundamental skills needed to be a beast in said game. An example of such characters are Ryu in street fighter or Ein in DOA.
This is why you have Alpha, Rachel or Helena players that try to mimic the strong tactics other players develop but still get bodied because their core skills as players are garbage since more often than not the character has been holding their hand through the game.
That idea is the same reason why people have the concept of a recommended beginner character all wrong. A recommended beginner character isn't an character that's designed to get you easy wins; it's a character that is straightforward and allows you to learn and utilize the mechanics of the game while developing the core fundamental skills needed to be a beast in said game. An example of such characters are Ryu in street fighter or Ein in DOA.
d3v
Well-Known Member
See, now this is why y'all need to play more fighting games. Generally speaking, the best characters to use to teach newer players to win actually are high tier or top tier characters. Ryu? Ryu's been generally high or top tier in most SFs (hello 9:1 matchups in ST). In games where he isn't there were usually better fundamental characterts (Chun or Ken in 3S, Fei Long in AE2012) Team Scrub in MvC2 (Sent/Cable/CapCom) not only taught you fundamentals, but it was one of the best teams in the game.
More importantly, these characters are usually top tier because they emphasize and excel at whatever it is that defines the meta-game of whatever game they're in. For example, Marvel has always been about being able to confirm random stray hits into damage. This is why you'd rather have someone new learn Magneto or Vergil, because they excel at that. Having them use someone like say Spiderman or anyone else who's more dependent on certain specific setups to get kill combos isn't doing them any favors. Same way that Injustice has a heavy zoning component, which is why someone like Superman or Aquaman is a better choice than Harley or Joker . Making a new player pick one of the latter will end up only teaching them the specific gimmicks that those characters need to win.
RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
I don't want to get in the middle of this argument because I really, really don't care about this topic. Only this quoted part caught my eye and is making me respond. Firstly, I'm seriously hoping you're joking about it being physically exhausting. However, mental exhaustion is a real thing when playing games requiring concentration, making quick decisions and adapting to an opponent's decisions. It's still not that big a problem because mental endurance can be trained, minimizing or even negating this issue. The problem is that most people are too lazy to train barring a few exceptions.
The only reason that this bothers me is that so many FGC players are begging for fighting games to be recognized as a sport, but refuse to put in any physical labour like any real athlete. Mental exhaustion is the only real, physical thing video games have to be able to be called a sport rather than a game and instead of overcoming it, so many players just whine. Train your body and mind because mental or physical exhaustion is NOT an excuse in competition and should not be a factor in the first place if you've trained hard enough.
I just wanted to get this off my chest.
A character like Ayane has pretty much been deemed as top or high tier since DOA2U, I believe. I don't play her because she's top or high tier though. I play and main the character because I'm generally fond of the character and her tools. Her play design is a fit for me and I've learned how to utilize a lot of what she has, even moreso creatively. I'm the only player you'll probably ever see that uses her 6P3 as movement at range because her options there are insane and very intimidating.
The only way I see Ayane being a bit of a lower tier character (possibly mid tier if it were the case) would be tone down or nerf her tools. That alone would affect her match ups and make them harder or actually pretty bad. But that won't happen because it's already pretty tough to play Ayane at high level anyway. High level players don't play her at high level because they don't want to risk having to put in more effort than they would with said main character. Or they don't fully understand how to make the best use of her tools, outside of a few more obvious things.
This is why I have the upmost respect for a player like Xian because he's a character specialist with Gen. Gen is pretty difficult to play well at high level in SSF4, but he has great execution and character knowledge of Gen and his match ups. That is what I am going to prove I am as well, a true character specialist.
In DOA5 Vanilla, players would agree that Ayane was in top 5, which is true. But no one could actually explain why, except for myself. She isn't winning any majors because no one wanted to put time into her to do it or felt she couldn't because 66KK4 wasn't +7 anymore (which was silly anyway). And I didn't have a lot of free time to practice and play Vanilla.
Lots of players only see the obvious and the usual with this character, no one or not many have actually took the character in the lab and truly broke her down (even in 5U) and made comparisons of her tools to other characters.
But I've been playing Ayane long before I even knew what the hell a tier list was, and what frame data and all of this other technical stuff was. Like Awesmic would say, "I never drop Christie". "I never drop Ayane".
I have a pretty solid Genfu in my pocket if need be, but my Ayane is leagues ahead of him and I would prefer to play my best in a tournament setting (especially in a major) than my pocket character.
But yeah, my point, I don't let tier list affect my decision(s) in my character choice. I would always play Ayane. In SSF4, Cammy is my favorite but I am deciding to pick up Yang in AE in preparation for USF4. She is better than Yang in a lot of ways, but I want to play Yang. Blazblue I played Tsubaki in CS1, a game she was considered low tier in, and stuck with her in CS2 where she was claimed to be one of the most balanced characters.
Characters I choose to play just happen to be good or very good before I even realize it. Except for Tsubaki in CS1, lol.
The only way I see Ayane being a bit of a lower tier character (possibly mid tier if it were the case) would be tone down or nerf her tools. That alone would affect her match ups and make them harder or actually pretty bad. But that won't happen because it's already pretty tough to play Ayane at high level anyway. High level players don't play her at high level because they don't want to risk having to put in more effort than they would with said main character. Or they don't fully understand how to make the best use of her tools, outside of a few more obvious things.
This is why I have the upmost respect for a player like Xian because he's a character specialist with Gen. Gen is pretty difficult to play well at high level in SSF4, but he has great execution and character knowledge of Gen and his match ups. That is what I am going to prove I am as well, a true character specialist.
In DOA5 Vanilla, players would agree that Ayane was in top 5, which is true. But no one could actually explain why, except for myself. She isn't winning any majors because no one wanted to put time into her to do it or felt she couldn't because 66KK4 wasn't +7 anymore (which was silly anyway). And I didn't have a lot of free time to practice and play Vanilla.
Lots of players only see the obvious and the usual with this character, no one or not many have actually took the character in the lab and truly broke her down (even in 5U) and made comparisons of her tools to other characters.
But I've been playing Ayane long before I even knew what the hell a tier list was, and what frame data and all of this other technical stuff was. Like Awesmic would say, "I never drop Christie". "I never drop Ayane".
I have a pretty solid Genfu in my pocket if need be, but my Ayane is leagues ahead of him and I would prefer to play my best in a tournament setting (especially in a major) than my pocket character.
But yeah, my point, I don't let tier list affect my decision(s) in my character choice. I would always play Ayane. In SSF4, Cammy is my favorite but I am deciding to pick up Yang in AE in preparation for USF4. She is better than Yang in a lot of ways, but I want to play Yang. Blazblue I played Tsubaki in CS1, a game she was considered low tier in, and stuck with her in CS2 where she was claimed to be one of the most balanced characters.
Characters I choose to play just happen to be good or very good before I even realize it. Except for Tsubaki in CS1, lol.