Things that should be addressed in the next DoA5:U patch for Jacky, from issues that need to be fixed to a few suggestions to his move set.
LAST EDITED: 10/16/2013
MAJOR ISSUES:
-the 4P series on block (credit goes to BlackWhiteBoi for showing me this at The Fall Classic):
---4P,1P = this move has a major bug. If the opponent blocks the first hit (4P), they *cannot* crouch guard the following 1P by using Down+Guard (unless the opponent delays their 1P input). Basically, the second hit becomes unblockable if you try to do Down+Guard to block it. However, the opponent CAN block the following 1P by holding Down/Back (or Down).
Note that you also cannot Sidestep or Hold the 1P in this situation.
---4P,2K = same issue as the above. Note that the 2K follow-up gives a +10 frame advantage on hit and is 3 points of damage stronger than the 1P follow-up, so it‘s much more dangerous on hit.
---4P,K = a similar issue: if the opponent blocks the first hit (4P), they *cannot* crouch under the following K by using Down+Guard. On top of that, if the opponent attempts to crouch under it by holding either Down/Back (or Down), the following K actually HITS (even though it‘s a High attack). Yes, it hits you when you try to crouch under it. Note that 4P,K gives Jacky +2 frame advantage on block and leaves Jacky back-turned.
-----SUMMARY OF THE ABOVE: so the 4P (on block) mix-up against Jacky is: if you think Jacky is going to do 4P,2K and you attempt to hold Down/Back (or Down) to crouch guard the second part, and instead he does 4P,K, then the following K will hit you. Now alternatively, if you just stand there and block high against Jacky, then you're left open to being hit by the 4P,2K or if they do 4P,K instead and you block the following K then you're now at -2 frame disadvantage against Jacky.
This is pretty dumb and should be fixed so that you can crouch guard or crouch under the 4P follow-ups normally after blocking the 4P.
-the P,P,4P,K string (credit goes to Kurt for his input on this):
---P,P,4P,K = the last two hits of this string have the same "4P,K" issue listed above. If the opponent blocks the 3rd hit of the string (the 4P), then they *cannot* use Down+Guard to duck under the 4th and final hit (the K).
However, this was actually how this string functioned in Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown, so it makes sense to function this way in DoA5:U. However, the two oddball things about it in DoA5:U are:
1.) Similar to the issue with the "4P,K" two-hit string listed above, after blocking the 3rd hit (4P), if the opponent attempts to crouch under it by holding either Down/Back (or Down), the following K actually HITS. This should be fixed; the opponent should not get hit for trying to crouch under this.
2.) Here's an annoying issue: if the opponent blocks the first two hits of the string (P,P) and attempts to use Down+Guard to crouch under the 3rd hit (4P), the 3rd hit will actually HIT the opponent even though it‘s a High attack. This should be fixed.
Note that the opponent CAN use Down/Back (or Down) to crouch under the 3rd hit (4P) after blocking the first two (P,P). Another thing the opponent can do to go underneath the 3rd hit is to quickly do an attack that goes under Highs in the early start-up frames (such as a 2P).
-things related to Pak Sao:
---certain throws that change entirely when done on Counter or Hi-Counter (such as Tina’s T, her While Standing 64T, or Hayabusa’s 46T) do not change at all when done on Jacky when he is in a neutral position, although he is in Hi-Counter status due to Pak Sao.
---in some situations where the opponent throws Jacky, Jacky will receive Hi-Counter damage when it doesn’t make sense, most likely due to Pak Sao putting Jacky in a Hi-Counter state whenever he is considered to be in a neutral position.
Below are four examples of this...
1.) Have Rachel do her 66T Offensive Hold on Jacky, and once behind him have her immediately do her 6T throw. Rachel will do a back throw and Jacky will receive Hi-Counter damage even if he holds the Guard button. Note that you can’t even crouch to avoid Rachel’s 6T in this situation.
2.) Have Mila or Hitomi do their respective 6T throws (which leaves them at a large frame advantage) on Jacky. After the throw, delay slightly and then do another 6T so that you grab Jacky almost immediately after the previous 6T. If you time it perfectly, Jacky will receive Hi-Counter damage even if he holds the Guard button. This seems easier to do with Mila.
3.) As Hayabusa, block Jacky’s 1P+K,P,K (which puts Jacky at -7). Immediately after blocking it, do Hayabusa’s 6T throw (which is a 6-frame throw). This is a guaranteed punish no matter what Jacky does, but for whatever reason, Jacky receives Hi-Counter damage *unless* he holds the Guard button.
4.) Have La Mariposa/Lisa do her P+K attack against Jacky on block. This will guard break and put Jacky at -5. Immediately after Mariposa does P+K, have her do her T throw (which is a 4-frame throw). If you time it perfectly, Jacky will receive Hi-Counter damage even if he holds the Guard button (credit goes to Ain Lin for pointing out this occurrence).
-Tag Battle related:
---Ground Attack Tag = Jacky’s “Ground Attack Tag” appears to be buggy and unfinished (it has some weird 8H+K-looking animation). You can even do odd Tag juggles with it. To see what it looks like, play Tag Battle and have Jacky as your partner. Knock the opponent off of their feet and then input 8H+P+K to have Jacky come in with a Ground Attack. Observe the weirdness. *****FIXED IN VER.1.03*****
---default Tag Throw = when Jacky’s partner does a default Tag Throw to him, Jacky's throw will do 55 points of damage on Normal, Counter *AND* Hi-Counter. He can never get the additional damage bonus of a Counter or Hi-Counter default Tag Throw from his partner.
Note that other characters in DoA5:U also have this same issue when their partners do a default Tag Throw to them (namely Akira, Alpha, Brad, Christie, Eliot, Hayate, Hitomi, Kokoro, Mariposa, Momiji and Rig).
-Tracking related:
---the second hit of Jacky’s 4P,K tracks, but the 4th hit of Jacky’s P,P,4P,K does *not*. This should be fixed so that they both track.
---the 3rd hit of Jacky’s P,P,K string tracks, but the 3rd hit of 6P,P,K (and the 5th hit of P,P,6P,P,K) does *not*. This should be fixed so that they both track, which is also how they functioned in Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown.
However, for the sake of balance, this could affect the tracking on the 3rd hits of Jacky’s 6P,P,P and 6P,P,2K (and the 5th hits of their respective P,P,6P versions), which were only half-circular in VF5:FS.
-Lightning Kicks (2H+K,K,K,K,K) related:
---when Jacky hits someone against the wall with Lightning Kicks, his “special animation” after the 5th hit makes him unable to guard, and in some situations the opponent has enough time (after being hit into the wall) to recover from the ground and hit him for free. My suggestion is: this move, when a wall hit occurs, should have no special animation for Jacky so that he can guard and avoid guaranteed damage. This would be similar to how Jann Lee’s 236K and his 46K do not do his usual special animations afterwards when the opponent is knocked into a wall.
MINOR ISSUES and SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVEMENT:
-Pak Sao = is currently 0 on hit, but it should be better than that. For comparison, in VF5: Final Showdown it was +10 on hit.
-H+K,K = the 2nd hit of this should Trip Stun from tip-range, similar to what Sarah‘s 3H+K currently does at tip-range in DoA5:U. For comparison, in VF5:FS the second hit of Jacky’s K+G,K would actually knock down the opponent at ANY range and still do full damage, as opposed to DoA5:U where it only does 50% of it's normal damage at tip-range and doesn't knock down at all.
-8H+K = a few changes, because as of now it's pretty useless:
---it is currently -1 on block, but it should be better than that. For comparison, in VF5:FS it was 0 on block at closer ranges and +1 on block from further ranges.
---make it completely invulnerable to lows once he's airborne. Currently, many low attacks will still hit Jacky when he is well off of the ground.
---make it a Middle attack, not a High which it currently is. In VF5:FS, it was a Mid.
---and finally, if it becomes a Mid attack, ensure that the attack-box on 8H+K can reliably hit opponents that are doing a Low Wake-Up Kick. (I was originally going to suggest this last change for 8K, but I feel with the decent start-up, good range, and great safety that 8K already has, the buff should go to 8H+K to make it more useful.)
-Slide Shuffle H+K = it is currently -1 on block, but it should be better than that. For comparison, in VF5:FS it was 0 on block.
-Fire Darts (both the "Slide Shuffle~Ducking" version and the "While Running" version) = is currently -2 on block, but it should be better than that. For comparison, in VF5:FS it was +6 on block.
---(with back to foe) 2P or (with back to foe) 2K = one of these two moves should have Tracking ability. For comparison, in VF5:FS they were both half-circular moves (and they each covered a different side). I would recommend the 2K simply because of the circular animation.
---(when facing a wall) 3P+K = the range on this is horrible compared to how it was in VF5:FS. It should travel much further. Also, like in VF5:FS, it should have Tracking.
-a list of Jacky's Throws that should have the "Ground Hazard" ability (ex. shocking the opponent on the electric floor in the "Lab" stage; busting through the floor grate in the "Fuel" stage, etc.) = 46T, 66T (Wall version only) and his Throw to foe's back.
-a list of Jacky's Throws and Holds that should have the ability to knock the opponent off of ledges = 46T and High Kick Hold.
-"Special K.O." effect = Jacky currently has no moves that cause a "Special K.O." effect (the slow-motion effect with a unique camera angle) when used as the final hit to K.O. the opponent. Some examples of characters and moves that can do this are: Hitomi's 236P, Hayabusa's Izuna Drop, and Akira's 466P+K.
---suggestions for which of Jacky's moves should have this effect = 3P,P,P (final hit only), 6K, 66K, 7K, 46H+K, Slide Shuffle P, Fire Darts (both the While Running version and the Slide Shuffle~Ducking version) and High Kick Hold.
Note that the moves suggested above are what would cause the "Super Replay" effect in Virtua Fighter 5 and VF5: Final Showdown when they were used as the final hit to K.O. the opponent. (Jacky's High Kick Hold is basically the old Virtua Fighter 5 version of Pak Sao, which had the Super Replay effect.)
Questions? Comments?
I don't use Twitter, so if someone hasn't sent the major issues to Team Ninja already, they should.