I'm Watching Old 3.1 and 3.2 Videos...

Raansu

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Are you guys joking right now or what. The second video of the original post of this thread has Bass doing some ridiculous shit.

Sorry but you would have to be brain dead to get caught in those invisible corner infinite's that are available on like 2 or 3 stages and if you get baited into that tunnel on the ice stage then you are just ASKING to get put into that situation. Nothing about that video was "ridiculous." Just because a character CAN do something doesn't make them ridiculous or broken. Those setups are rare, easily avoided, and would pretty much never happen in a real match.

Honestly this is one of the reasons I hated those videos. It showcases Bass in a way that makes him look over powered when he clearly isn't and back when people were trying to push 3.1 and the offline scene during the 2U days everyone was terrified to learn how to play it because Bass was "broken." He was slow and easy to deal with, he NEEDED those setups.
 

UncleKitchener

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Actually, Bass is one of the slowest, most unsafe characters in the game and with his back to the wall, he's deals much less damage, which is pretty much nothing compared to what other characters can do. If you try to do his 4H+P grab with your back to the wall, you've pretty much sacrificed loads of damage for good positioning, which doesn't mean a lot in 3.1 considering the FSD system (it's a slightly different story in 3.2, but he still plays the same). He doesn't have many tracking moves and with all the crushes and good options most other characters have, he'll end up being stunned most of the time from all those CHs.

The best thing he has going for him is his punishment game, which mostly consists of his throws. Without those, he can't really do much at all. He may range on his attacks, but those aren't safe in 3.1/2. You have to be very patient to be a good Bass players and you have to know your match-ups well. A good Bass can't just rush you and destroy you because he is slow and he has a giant hit-box akin to a big dart board.

That 6PK infinite? It can be only done in corners with half-walls and there aren't many of them. It's the fault of the level design. You have to be very lucky to get an infinite situation anyway.

The hall-way infinite? Well, if you're in it, then it's entirely your fault for putting yourself in that situation.

You see that pick-up Bass has? Well, guess what? You can dash away. Yes, that works. It's safe for most characters. Even the AI does it. That front pick up with the 50/50? You can FUZZY GUARD it. Yes, it works in this game.

Now, why does this back-truned pick up situation not work in DOA4/5? I don't know. Why can you not do the pick-up after 6KP juggle ender any more? I don't know. Why does hcfH+P not work after pick up any more? Apparently, most people in the development team are extremely thick and so the hitbox for catch throw has to be intertionally tampered with so that it doesn't connect in this unique situation. It's just these borderline schizophrenic decisions they make that just make me go "it doesn't seem like these people know what they're doing at all".

You want stupid? Okay, let's look at Gen Fu. He has amazing crushes, doesn't need to rely on the stun system for damage and has so many dumb ass resets against walls and in water/ice/wind. Now, THAT is dumb.
 

grap3fruitman

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This is the thread I keep coming back to when I need to redeem DOA in my head. I have to do it pretty often unfortunately.
 

Matt Ponton

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Who were the best characters? From the vids I've seen this game looks really legit. TN should release it over PSN and XBL arcade or something.


The last agreed upon tier list was I believe:

S: Gen Fu, Jann Lee, Hayate, Ayane, Bass
A: Everyone Else
B: Brad Wong

With yes, the A tier had the very possible chance to beat the S tier, it's just they had a tougher time dealing with the S tier's options.

Gen Fu for example, if you had to put together a DOA5 attributes chart, he'd be a 5 on everything. The man had two parries, one that parried all high and mid attacks which the parry gave a free lift stun forcing into the guessing game. The other parry parried all low attacks but didn't really guarantee anything. He had punishing - and I mean punishing - throws such as :236::F+P: launcher, :214::F+P: frame advantage, or event :6::6::F+P::5::6::F+P: which guaranteed a wall slam (with explosion) and a free backturned combo. Then you had an 11 frame mid that would cause a slip stun in water. The only thing he really lacked was hold damage and I'd honestly still say his holds did good enough damage. He had the most evasive side step attack in the game that also guard broke the opponent and was safe unless the guard break was punishable. He had a mid punch launching attack that high/high-mid crushed AND gave +2 on guard. He had natural combos that were frame advantage if guarded and knockback if not allowing him full juggle damage. He also had an air throw that could be performed in any juggle and provided him a free attack (a :6::P: or :K:) afterwards. That same :6::P: is the one that causes slip stun on ice. That means he could juggle you (from attack or throw), air throw you in ice/water, and put you right back into the stun game where you have to guess attack launcher or throw.

Jann Lee and Hayate are practically even. The only thing I see different is that Hayate has better holds but Jann Lee is better at the open space game. Both are phenomenal at the wall with great mix-ups or natural combos to cause severe damage. You really have to be on point with your spacing against these two characters.

Ayane was bumped up because although she lacks natural combos or the frame advantage pressure the rest of the S tier class has, she makes up for it with her evasion, mix-ups, and punishment.

Bass is very much the same as Ayane. He doesn't have natural combos or much frame advantage on guard, but his frame advantage comes from his ground game. He's very much a momentum character. He is very slow but he hits hard. Primarily, his main tool that puts him up so high is his punishment ability. If you are even remotely unsafe and you haven't positioned him to have his back to the wall then you can lose a good chunk of your life bar. If you hold at all, you are risking losing nearly all of it. His holds were also very good and did amazing damage. He had slow but solid pokes such as 6P providing limbo stun on counter-hit. However, outside of his punishment game he was very much heavily reliant on player reading and 50/50 mix-ups because he took away the wake-up game from his opponents.

Hayabusa is also just as good and is argued to possibly fall into the S class but I believe people were feeling he wasn't as powerful though he certainly could give most of the characters a run for their money.

Brad, he had :4::P::P: ?
 

Matt Ponton

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Well I forgot that he can also do :1::K: or :1::K::K: or even :1::K::K::K: or free cancel at any time and low throw a possible whiffed hold.
 

Tenryuga

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Is there anywhere I can go to take a look at the frame data? I'm interested in HItomi's and Kasumi's.
 

Matt Ponton

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They're all in the wiki. Keep in mind the frame data is listed in reverse. If it says it's 3 on hit it means it's -3 on hit, and if it's -3 then it's +3 on hit.

It also should be noted that you couldn't escape tech crouching attacks on normal hits. This means if someone like bass hit you with an :8::P: on normal hit then he was guaranteed a low throw during the recovery animations. In DOA5 this wouldn't work if the opponent is mashing attack or high/mid hold after the hit. Kasumi had one or two setups for it as well as I remember Gill Hustle and I finding it together for her.
 

JAG THE GEMINI

Active Member
The frame advantage in those videos looks so nice. Hayate's comobos look way better in DOA3. I found this video tutorial for Hayate that someone uploaded last month.


Why was the best DOA of all time never released again...

This was my tier-list:

S-Tier: Gen Fu,Hayate, Jann Lee
High Tier: Ayane, Lei Fang, Bass, Hayabusa
Mid-Tier: Kasumi, Tina, Helena, Hitomie, Bayman, Leon, Zack,Christie
Low-Tier: Brad Wong, Ein
 

virtuaPAI

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It also should be noted that you couldn't escape tech crouching attacks on normal hits. This means if someone like bass hit you with an :8::P: on normal hit then he was guaranteed a low throw during the recovery animations. In DOA5 this wouldn't work if the opponent is mashing attack or high/mid hold after the hit. Kasumi had one or two setups for it as well as I remember Gill Hustle and I finding it together for her.
-Actually, you was able to escape it back in 3.1 as well. The window was just tighter.
 
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