Is online completely meaningless?
- Thread starter WebHead
- Start date
Except no one is outright decrying offline play. It's the attitude of those who have vs. those who haven't. I already have functioning plans to join the former, but the attitude is definitely present.
And in reality, online is going to be the only expected venue for certain people, either temporarily or permanently. Not acknowledging that does hurt the community even if there is a goal to sell the value of offline events. Indeed, it almost certainly weakens the appeal. Offline should be celebrated, not commanded.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
That statement is elitist. Who defines themselves as an online player and takes pride in it? Who is creating a separation of the two? I don't define myself as an offline player, I'm a fighting game player.
As such I want to enjoy playing other people and improve my skills. I realise that playing online will only get me so far and I play offline whenever I can.
I also want more people to play the games I enjoy, so I support and encourage people coming to offline events. I realise that is the only place people will be engaged to try the game and numbers count. If you have the opportunity to come to an offline event but say to yourself "I'll just stay home and play online", you're not contributing. You're invisible. The wider fighting, and gaming community, does not count you when they wonder "why is the DOA community so small?"
Note that doesn't make you less of a fan of the game, but try to understand we're talking in the context of a competitive site trying to expose and improve the opportunities for DOA in the competitive fighting community.
There's not two groups here. There's the people who've shown up, and the woodwork. It's not elitist to say ALL players of fighting games want more people to show up to events and not just help the scene - by standing up and being counted - but to be part of the fun.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
Yeah they got beat quite badly by my regulars. Those same "experienced" ended up getting pissed and started hating on DOA lol.
HiguraShiki
Active Member
A gaming community needs an offline scene to be recognized competatively. Otherwise, the game will die out rather quickly.
Look at Melty Blood, there is rarely an offline scene around. Thank the gods that MBAA managed to make it at EVO.
You guys that downtalk offline play by calling offline players "elitists" don't seem to understand that without support from offline play, your precious game that you so love will rot and the only player you will be fighting against would be the A.I.
Offline support keeps the game running, shows how competitive the game could be, and brings more players to the scene.
Now I do agree that online play is just as important. Without online play, fighting games would be much less popular these days, since there would be no way to really practice the game against other real life players unless you travel.
But offline play is much more important. Lets put it this way, before Soul Calibur V came out, there was Soul Calibur IV. I remember playing vs one particular dude, it was just a fun challenge. Both of his friends were there and my friend. Those two matches we played were so exciting that it got me and my friends bro playing Soul Calibur IV regularly.
The competitive nature of the game only improves, as it allows players to step up their game and makes competition valid. Wouldn't it be stupid if any moron can just join a sport and do random stuff and win? Instead you have players skilled in various different aspects of sports, say basket ball. Some guys are better at dunking, some at defense, some are good all round. What happens to these players? They get hyped by the crowd and spread the news to other people.
Look at Melty Blood, there is rarely an offline scene around. Thank the gods that MBAA managed to make it at EVO.
You guys that downtalk offline play by calling offline players "elitists" don't seem to understand that without support from offline play, your precious game that you so love will rot and the only player you will be fighting against would be the A.I.
Offline support keeps the game running, shows how competitive the game could be, and brings more players to the scene.
Now I do agree that online play is just as important. Without online play, fighting games would be much less popular these days, since there would be no way to really practice the game against other real life players unless you travel.
But offline play is much more important. Lets put it this way, before Soul Calibur V came out, there was Soul Calibur IV. I remember playing vs one particular dude, it was just a fun challenge. Both of his friends were there and my friend. Those two matches we played were so exciting that it got me and my friends bro playing Soul Calibur IV regularly.
The competitive nature of the game only improves, as it allows players to step up their game and makes competition valid. Wouldn't it be stupid if any moron can just join a sport and do random stuff and win? Instead you have players skilled in various different aspects of sports, say basket ball. Some guys are better at dunking, some at defense, some are good all round. What happens to these players? They get hyped by the crowd and spread the news to other people.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
I love when that happens. Was playing Smash Bros a couple of years ago, guy picked Zelda, talking about all these "crits" he knew, and how shes so awesome, etc, and how I shouldn't use Sonic because he sucks, etc etc.
Just up and DESTROYED him lol. He wasn't very happy. Well, actually he spent the whole time making excuses, but same thing.
Roroko
Member
Good grief. We just use the phrase "online player' as a convenient way to refer to those who don't have access to an offline scene, nothing more.
Everytime the community is being discussed it's always those who are fortunate enough to have access to an offline scene that point the finger at those who don't, and blame them for letting the community down.
E.g.,
Apparently, it's entirely their fault DoA5 hasn't taken off, individual circumstances be damned.
Then when gameplay is being discussed, and online playe ... *ahem* those individuals of unspecified gender that do not have access to an offline scene, talk about their online experience (because THAT'S THE ONLY THING THEY ACCESS TO), there's always someone quick to spout things like "online doesn't mean shit" and shut them down.
Combine these factors and it's obvious why there's a perception that those individuals of unspecified gender that do have access to an offline scene are elitist.
I honestly can't tell through all your holier-than-thou rhetoric whether you're feigning ignorance about this or are just genuinely ignorant.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
You're putting the holier than thou reading into it yourself. You deliberately quoted me out of context where I first said fans that only play online still contribute to the community, and what you quoted is where I said but to the WIDER fighting community, and in terms of representing the game at events, you're invisible. That's self evident.
I also said "if you have the opportunity" - I wasn't talking about people who have no access to an offline community, I was talking about an attitude of preference for online.
I haven't seen proponents of online play like yourself say "yes, it would be better if I could play offline", where I'm happy to acknowledge online play is useful but the caveat is you can't take it seriously.
Its like a false superiority complex. Just play the game and support people playing wherever they can. The truth of the original post is simple - online play is less important. It doesn't mean someone who has only practiced online doesn't have potential to be a great player at an offline event, but its not going to be known or relevant until they turn up.
It's not that hard to understand and its not such a divisive point to make, its more aspirational... skill up, turn up, be part of the great things the community can be part of.
I also said "if you have the opportunity" - I wasn't talking about people who have no access to an offline community, I was talking about an attitude of preference for online.
I haven't seen proponents of online play like yourself say "yes, it would be better if I could play offline", where I'm happy to acknowledge online play is useful but the caveat is you can't take it seriously.
Its like a false superiority complex. Just play the game and support people playing wherever they can. The truth of the original post is simple - online play is less important. It doesn't mean someone who has only practiced online doesn't have potential to be a great player at an offline event, but its not going to be known or relevant until they turn up.
It's not that hard to understand and its not such a divisive point to make, its more aspirational... skill up, turn up, be part of the great things the community can be part of.
Showing support. Why not support something you enjoy? If you do have a legit issue about the social situation ... Know that we're all ended up nerds and geeks in our lives so far.
There's no telling some people Berzerk. Though people do play the game for different reasons and if they are honest in their competitiveness, and/or enjoyment of the game then they'll be willing to show further (offline) support.
This is why it is a good thing when Temco is able to provide support to these offline events. Not everyone is currently playing online and not everyone is up to the stage were they want to compete and show offline support, but with a little encouragement some will change. There are millions of Aussies out there who do not know what Shadowlogic is and after DOA5's pre-order was sold out from the EB on Swanstan St, then I'd imagine at least 1 person would come out of the wood works.
Rokoroch, you sound hurt. I applaud you for contribution and the effort you took in your post. I encourage you post about your personal issues further but keep things relevant in this threat, there has been enough (potentially) good threads locked.
There's no telling some people Berzerk. Though people do play the game for different reasons and if they are honest in their competitiveness, and/or enjoyment of the game then they'll be willing to show further (offline) support.
This is why it is a good thing when Temco is able to provide support to these offline events. Not everyone is currently playing online and not everyone is up to the stage were they want to compete and show offline support, but with a little encouragement some will change. There are millions of Aussies out there who do not know what Shadowlogic is and after DOA5's pre-order was sold out from the EB on Swanstan St, then I'd imagine at least 1 person would come out of the wood works.
Rokoroch, you sound hurt. I applaud you for contribution and the effort you took in your post. I encourage you post about your personal issues further but keep things relevant in this threat, there has been enough (potentially) good threads locked.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
I'm gonna throw a very wild idea out there... I wouldn't be surprised if people think it's nonsense, but whatever. Try and stick with me, I'm gonna take sports as a reference here. Let me take tennis as an example.
Tennis has indoor and outdoor matches. If you look at it, one could easily argue that indoor matches are the only matches that are a reliable way to determine a player's skill, because there is no wind screwing with the direction of the ball, and everything that you do with the ball is gonna be in your hands, and where it falls is where you actually hit it. Outdoor courts can have wind and rain, birds or squirrels or whatever messing up the game and so on. There are so many variables there. The wind can spike up at any time, a dust cloud can hit your eyes blinding you from where the ball is going, you can hit a ball that would fall perfectly on the line and the wind blows it to fall outside, the sun can be in your face and so on. However, if you look at it, the skilled players are able to adapt to all the wind and dust and rain and so on. The one who wins, be it outdoor or indoor, is considered the better player.
Now on to DOA. In a way, offline is the indoor court, and online is the outdoor. With offline, everything is set and it plays very differently from online. For online, you have to compensate for the variables, lag spikes, increased input lag and so on. Would you imagine how retarded it would be for tennis players (or baseball players, soccer players and a bunch more) to say that only indoor courts/fields are a viable way to determine the skill of the player/team, because wind screws with the ball? Or to say that every outdoor player/team needs to be an indoor player/team, otherwise they don't matter? Why is it that it is somehow acceptable to do this in regards to DOA and fighting games in general? Why is it that everything is supposed to be a fixed calculation?
Why is it that people are so resentful towards online? Thing is, one who has always trained outdoor/online, will have an easier time adapting to indoor/offline than the other way around because they are used to random changes and can adapt on the fly. No one complains in tennis if the wind helps your top spin to go more outside the court to put your opponent more out of position than they would be, or if it actually blows the ball closer to you to catch a fly in baseball that you otherwise wouldn't be able to reach, or make it a home run that would've otherwise been an out, or made it a goal instead of a miss in soccer, but somehow, online tactics are demonized and propagandized to be this scandal that people should be shunned for using. Sure, there comes a point where online matches completely lose their reliability to determine skill, just like in sports a storm will force the match to be stopped. However, there is no real rational reason to say that online is no measure of skill or is no basis for a community. That is just a cultural bias in not only the DOA community but the FGC in general that actually needs to go. It separates communities unnecessarily and makes them appear smaller than they actually are.
On another note.. Online players should be more open to offline, and the other way around as well. However, most of the issue comes from offline players who want online players to adapt to them, but they in no way want to do it the other way around. Some even completely refuse to play offline, even with someone that has an almost perfect connection with them. Is it unexpected then, that people don't make an effort and in the worst case completely reject joining the offline scene, when you basically already rejected what they like or even ridicule them for liking it? Why would anyone choose to meet you, let alone join you when you make them feel like a social outcast?
Tennis has indoor and outdoor matches. If you look at it, one could easily argue that indoor matches are the only matches that are a reliable way to determine a player's skill, because there is no wind screwing with the direction of the ball, and everything that you do with the ball is gonna be in your hands, and where it falls is where you actually hit it. Outdoor courts can have wind and rain, birds or squirrels or whatever messing up the game and so on. There are so many variables there. The wind can spike up at any time, a dust cloud can hit your eyes blinding you from where the ball is going, you can hit a ball that would fall perfectly on the line and the wind blows it to fall outside, the sun can be in your face and so on. However, if you look at it, the skilled players are able to adapt to all the wind and dust and rain and so on. The one who wins, be it outdoor or indoor, is considered the better player.
Now on to DOA. In a way, offline is the indoor court, and online is the outdoor. With offline, everything is set and it plays very differently from online. For online, you have to compensate for the variables, lag spikes, increased input lag and so on. Would you imagine how retarded it would be for tennis players (or baseball players, soccer players and a bunch more) to say that only indoor courts/fields are a viable way to determine the skill of the player/team, because wind screws with the ball? Or to say that every outdoor player/team needs to be an indoor player/team, otherwise they don't matter? Why is it that it is somehow acceptable to do this in regards to DOA and fighting games in general? Why is it that everything is supposed to be a fixed calculation?
Why is it that people are so resentful towards online? Thing is, one who has always trained outdoor/online, will have an easier time adapting to indoor/offline than the other way around because they are used to random changes and can adapt on the fly. No one complains in tennis if the wind helps your top spin to go more outside the court to put your opponent more out of position than they would be, or if it actually blows the ball closer to you to catch a fly in baseball that you otherwise wouldn't be able to reach, or make it a home run that would've otherwise been an out, or made it a goal instead of a miss in soccer, but somehow, online tactics are demonized and propagandized to be this scandal that people should be shunned for using. Sure, there comes a point where online matches completely lose their reliability to determine skill, just like in sports a storm will force the match to be stopped. However, there is no real rational reason to say that online is no measure of skill or is no basis for a community. That is just a cultural bias in not only the DOA community but the FGC in general that actually needs to go. It separates communities unnecessarily and makes them appear smaller than they actually are.
On another note.. Online players should be more open to offline, and the other way around as well. However, most of the issue comes from offline players who want online players to adapt to them, but they in no way want to do it the other way around. Some even completely refuse to play offline, even with someone that has an almost perfect connection with them. Is it unexpected then, that people don't make an effort and in the worst case completely reject joining the offline scene, when you basically already rejected what they like or even ridicule them for liking it? Why would anyone choose to meet you, let alone join you when you make them feel like a social outcast?
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
Couldn't of had said it better myself.
Sigh, just read this thread. Fact: we are all Doa players. Fact: all forms of play are acceptible for practice and getting better at the game. Forget about the terms off/on line play, and pay attention to the term tournaments! Fact: This is irrelavent to how you practice and have no baring on how you gain skill. Fact: All forms of competition use tournaments or some type of test to showcase the best players/applicants. So we as a community need to stop worrying about where someone studied, and focus on the testing! With that said, it being a test should not deter you from having fun and showing what you have learned from your time of practice, or just going to support a friend and showing how much you love and support your game. This is all about you the player, not online or offline play!
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
Sam Sultan
Active Member
I hope this BS about "online means nothing" gets thrown in the garbage since an 14 year old online player(XCalibur BladeZ) with no offline experience came to an offline tournament and beat the so called top offline players LOL. He beat the so called number one Helena player in a mirror match with ease. I hope people start to give online players the proper respect that they deserve from now on.
phoenix1985gr
Active Member
They get the respect they deserve after competing offline though... Thats the problem you re gonna hear a lot off winstreaks online and other boasts like that but until you show that you have the skills to compete in real tournaments its doesnt mean anything... This is an online player speaking keep in mind...
Where's the video I need to watch this! Should be soooo much fun!!!
Sam Sultan
Active Member
phoenix1985gr
Active Member
The guy who won tekken tag 2 is also an online player