Itagaki talks DOA, thrashes DOA: Dimensions

Pointed out to us by @grap3fruitman and posted on popular gaming forum NeoGAF, Tomonobu Itagaki, our long-favorite and past DOA producer, had some recent words to share in regards to his thoughts on the current state of DOA and what he thinks of Team Ninja in their current state.

Let's just say, he didn't really have anythinig quite nice to say about DOA: Dimensions.

Here's what Itagaki had to say:

There are a couple points that we do seem to disagree on though, "user X".
You say that DOA5 was the start of the problems (or nightmare?), but I think it started with DOAimensions. I could sense it just minutes after turning the power on, and I immediately had to turn it off. Combos aren’t something that you do with a touch panel.

There is not an official publication of this discussion. The NeoGAF poster reports that this came from a Facebook reply to a user from Itagaki himself, dating back to about a month ago.

Read the full discussion over on NeoGAF.

 

Funny that people keep saying Itagaki has high standards of quality and creativity when abominations like DOAX2 and Ninja Gaiden II (360) came from him.

Though the current TN is not that much better tbh.

Those games were pretty good. The only game worthy of the word abomination is Yaiba, but I think Tecmo's more to blame for that. There's no comparing the current TN to old one though. You should really think about what the new team has done since Itagaki left.

They've made several inferior ports of NG1-2 (well they improved the boob physics and added more boobs overall), made non-games like MOM and NG3 (then Razor's Edge, which just copied NG2 gameplay), and released about a dozen versions of DOA5. They've yet to prove themselves in any way, Itagaki is right about that.

 

and released about a dozen versions of DOA5.

Dozen versions of DOA5 which are all better than previous DOAs. Deal with it, son.

 

They've made several inferior ports of NG1-2 (well they improved the boob physics and added more boobs overall), made non-games like MOM and NG3 (then Razor's Edge, which just copied NG2 gameplay), and released about a dozen versions of DOA5. They've yet to prove themselves in any way, Itagaki is right about that.

Agreed, so much. IMO, aside from DOA5, TN has really fallen flat post Itagaki. And I am/have been a fan boy of theirs for quite a while. Post Itagaki, we've only had ports, a really bad game (NG3), DOA5, more ports and a few odd/crappy (Yaiba) colaborations (though, I enjoyed M:OM and will get Hyrule Warriors at some point). So, I really hope they can do right with Ni-Oh and NG4, and make quality games.

To me, the dozen versions of DOA5 have been great. Especialy compared to what else was just listed.

 

Dozen versions of DOA5 which are all better than previous DOAs. Deal with it, son.

This.

Apparently, some people don't like companies supporting their games with additional content post release.

 

I love DOA5 and all the support it's getting. Good riddance, Itagaki.

 

I was expecting him to say more. Also DOAD seem just fine to me. It's interesting to know he didn't like it.

 

"...there are many fans like you, that dropped, who understand the greater love."

The fuck is he talking about? Listen, the dude is a hero of mine for cultivating DOA2 & 3, and NGB. That being said, his time was up as soon as NG2 came out. Tecmo and current TN may not be perfect (NG3 & Yaiba) but DOA5 is brilliant. Regardless of what folk here like to say, TN DOES listen to its fans. I am very satisfied with the current TN.

I will also forgive them for Marie Rose and Momiji.

He can talk about the "greater love" all he likes but, after seeing Devil's Third in action, it's hard to take it all seriously.

 

Devil third looks like a ps2 game

 

Devil third looks like a ps2 game

Just because you spent X number of $s on a console, doesn't mean the developers building the game will utilize that technology to its fullest.

I'm sure you'd like them to though?

 

I dont why you quoted me lol

 

I dont why you quoted me lol

Because its a reply @_@

 

"...there are many fans like you, that dropped, who understand the greater love."

The fuck is he talking about? Listen, the dude is a hero of mine for cultivating DOA2 & 3, and NGB. That being said, his time was up as soon as NG2 came out. Tecmo and current TN may not be perfect (NG3 & Yaiba) but DOA5 is brilliant. Regardless of what folk here like to say, TN DOES listen to its fans. I am very satisfied with the current TN.

I will also forgive them for Marie Rose and Momiji.

He can talk about the "greater love" all he likes but, after seeing Devil's Third in action, it's hard to take it all seriously.

Why is any forgiveness needed for Marie Rose and Momiji? I love these characters! Phase 4, on the other hand, is a lazy, stupid invention that I hope never to see again; every bit as bad as Decapre in USF4.

I agree with you about Devil's Third, though. The game looks like a horse's ass, even by Wii U standards.

 

Why is any forgiveness needed for Marie Rose and Momiji? I love these characters! Phase 4, on the other hand, is a lazy, stupid invention that I hope never to see again; every bit as bad as Decapre in USF4.

I agree with you about Devil's Third, though. The game looks like a horse's ass, even by Wii U standards.

What are you talking about? Phase 4 is a GREAT character! Next to Kasumi, she's my second best character. If you don't like her, you don't have to buy her, even though you're missing out on a great character.

 

Itagaki certainly hurt some of you people's feelings. He simply just told an obvious truth: DOA5 is a 2nd class game.

Yeah DOAD is worse and I'd rather not have DOA5 at all in the first place. DOA5 is a great game but not a TOP CLASS game anymore. This is the same situation with FF13 comparing to some of the previous masterpieces in the series.

Adding Raidou as a new character is not extremely attractive and not a reason for people to buy DOA5LR. TK is just cashing in the fame from DOA1 to DOA4, and that will sure be 0 sometime in the future.

I completely agree with Itagaki. If a game is not great, he says harsh words, he bluntly criticize, simple as that. DOA5 has gone down the wrong route, and it is just gonna get worse. For all you fans you will be let down again and again.

 

Itagaki certainly hurt some of you people's feelings. He simply just told an obvious truth: DOA5 is a 2nd class game.

Yeah DOAD is worse and I'd rather not have DOA5 at all in the first place. DOA5 is a great game but not a TOP CLASS game anymore. This is the same situation with FF13 comparing to some of the previous masterpieces in the series.

Adding Raidou as a new character is not extremely attractive and not a reason for people to buy DOA5LR. TK is just cashing in the fame from DOA1 to DOA4, and that will sure be 0 sometime in the future.

I completely agree with Itagaki. If a game is not great, he says harsh words, he bluntly criticize, simple as that. DOA5 has gone down the wrong route, and it is just gonna get worse. For all you fans you will be let down again and again.

Wrong, DOA1-2U. Forget DOA4.
I also don't understand how DOA5 has gone down the wrong route (Besides 3 versions), when it has generated the most sales out of every DOA game ever. Don't even mention the floor textures.

Don't get me wrong, a lot of stages in DOA5, were SHIT, but the balance has been the best, making the overall game better than any other DOA game.

DOA5 is the newest "TOP CLASS GAME" we have from the DOA franchise though.

 

I don't give a damn about how much money they are making from DOA5 (using dlc strategy and release the SAME game many times).

DOA2,3,2U and 4 are the best games in terms of beauty, stage, and creation. These are ground breaking games that set industry standards. I see no creation in DOA5. The stages are boring, the musics are doll, the graphics are just so so, the "new" systems in the game sometimes look redundant(PB, PL and Cliff Hanger etc.).

Funny a lot of people on this forum thinks the most balanced game is the best game. That's actually the easy bit. All they need to do is hire a guy like Shinbori and keep releasing patches. They can do that even for DOA4! Some characters' moves are not evolving much!

 

OK let's not get into the details again. D Glock who was being a bit "evil" because he only posted the most controversial part Itagaki said during his talk. I doubt some of you even read the whole article.

Itagaki talked about the number of active fans dropped off after the release of DOA5. This is also very true from my observation. We have a DOA circle here include fans from DOA2 or even DOA1 era. We would have chats about DOA every week, from combo strategies to DOA news etc. Now all of us share the same frustration about DOA5: It is simply not that great, and TK's trivial improvement of the game every time will turn our excitement into disappointments. These are not frame advantage analysis of +100 on block or -200 on hit. These are genuine feeling from the heart, by fans that loved DOA for more than 10 years.

Based on the above I can represent this DOA circle I know, and we agree with Itagaki about the point "DOA5 makes fans leaving".

 

Replying to what you said about balancing mainly.

DOA2,3,2U and 4 are the best games in terms of beauty, stage, and creation. These are ground breaking games that set industry standards. I see no creation in DOA5. The stages are boring, the musics are doll, the graphics are just so so, the "new" systems in the game sometimes look redundant(PB, PL and Cliff Hanger etc.).

Funny a lot of people on this forum thinks the most balanced game is the best game. That's actually the easy bit. All they need to do is hire a guy like Shinbori and keep releasing patches. They can do that even for DOA4! Some characters' moves are not evolving much!

It's quite hard to balance a game, actually. Very hard. And balancing isn't just making new moves or "evolving" them. Also, patches aren't free.

Power Blows are probably the most used new system, all looking good, apart from Ein's 2 hit combo PB. Power Launcher, didn't need to be added to 5U. There aren't many cliffhanger stages, so obviously you aren't going to see them too often. I don't know what you mean by etc., so I'm just going to assume you are talking about Critical Burst. It's just something to get guaranteed power blows off of, which is probably what it was designed for.

But I do agree with you on the parts of DOA2,3,2U and 4 looking better in terms of stages and vibrance. But the character models do indeed, no matter what you say, OBLITERATE the older ones, the males just lack anti-aliasing.

5V music is shit, but the 5U stages OSTs are glorious, you can even use previous DOA music, because TN already knew that the DOA5V music was bad.

/discussion

 

Replying to what you said about balancing mainly.
...
/discussion

Well I didn't mention CB because CB is probably the biggest improvement in DOA5, and right now apart from side step I can't think of any other big improvements in DOA5. You agreed me about PL being redundant in DOA. PB is mostly used after CB, and it is then just a substitute for a combo. Ever wondered people better off using their own combos instead of pressing 3 buttons and .. done!?

I personally don't like DOA5's wake up game, DOA4's wake up game can easily be tweaked and give enough pseudo tech chances for certain characters. However that's another story because they are now going with modified version of a mixture of DOA2+DOA4 wake-up game.

Well the character models are worse for me now because the graphics engine for it has changed. I personally don't like the current one because everyone looks fat and one person who is supposed to be big and strong (Bass) isn't! He is slim! Well these are subjective things we can argue all day and you can go on youtube and find many videos complaining about Kasumi's cartoon face no more. Good luck arguing with the guy who made that kind of video!

I know balancing a game is hard but that's why Shinbori is here doing his job. But, Sit down stuns, unholdable situations, guard breaks that gives you advantage... These are tweaks from the old DOA fighting system, so the base of all these good tweaks are already there in the most hated DOA4. Tell me how many of the improvements like these made in DOA5 can't be done in DOA4?

All I'm saying is, this award of a balanced DOA is not because it's DOA5. 80% of the stuff are there already in DOA4. It's TN who did a good job balancing the old DOA system.

 

Well I didn't mention CB because CB is probably the biggest improvement in DOA5, and right now apart from side step I can't think of any other big improvements in DOA5. You agreed me about PL being redundant in DOA. PB is mostly used after CB, and it is then just a substitute for a combo. Ever wondered people better off using their own combos instead of pressing 3 buttons and .. done!?

Well the character models are worse for me now because the graphics engine for it has changed. I personally don't like the current one because everyone looks fat and one person who is supposed to be big and strong (Bass) isn't! He is slim! Well these are subjective things we can argue all day and you can go on youtube and find many videos complaining about Kasumi's cartoon face no more. Good luck arguing with the guy who made that kind of video!

I know balancing a game is hard but that's why Shinbori is here doing his job. But, Sit down stuns, unholdable situations, guard breaks that gives you advantage... These are tweaks from the old DOA fighting system, so the base of all these good tweaks are already there in the most hated DOA4. Tell me how many of the improvements like these made in DOA5 can't be done in DOA4?

Bounds. They're new to the DOA engine. Twist launchers. That's all.I can think of right now.