Community Opinion: Dead or Alive 5 Last Round Dividing the Community

[d3v]

Noticed, what I bolded! What is wrong with Capcom? EA pulls the same shit! Now, the fact that TK uses the same model and you wonder why people are pissed!

Fun fact, most people I know who are "in the know" within the FGC (both long time veterans and those in the so-called "illuminati) actually do approve of Capcom's model (more-so their current one where it's cheaper to get on board with the updates).

Numerical sequels can be quite disruptive when not timed right. Any sequel alone is bound to bring sweeping changes that are more than just new characters and balance tweaks. Stuff like this can stilt the growth of an existing game. Worse case, you have players who just drop out or refuse to move on to the sequel, which can be disastrous if a large enough population does so.

Look at old SNK and the King of Fighters series. Despite their numerous releases, there are only 3 games actively played by the community - 98, 2k2 and XIII.

Games like 99, 2000, 2k1, 2k3, XII, etc. are all ignored because they're not the preferred games. It came to the point 98 and 2k2 were given updates (98UM and 2k2UM) years after their releases, even after they had released sequels.

Now ideally, the company would release a game and leave it untouched for 5 or so years before a sequel. But we all know that they won't do that, both because they wont make money and because casuals wont like it. Updates mean that they get to continue making money while at the same time keeping casuals somewhat happy that they're seeing changes to the game.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Fun fact, most people I know who are "in the know" within the FGC (both long time veterans and those in the so-called "illuminati) actually do approve of Capcom's model (more-so their current one where it's cheaper to get on board with the updates).

Numerical sequels can be quite disruptive when not timed right. Any sequel alone is bound to bring sweeping changes that are more than just new characters and balance tweaks. Stuff like this can stilt the growth of an existing game. Worse case, you have players who just drop out or refuse to move on to the sequel, which can be disastrous if a large enough population does so.

Look at old SNK and the King of Fighters series. Despite their numerous releases, there are only 3 games actively played by the community - 98, 2k2 and XIII.

Games like 99, 2000, 2k1, 2k3, XII, etc. are all ignored because they're not the preferred games. It came to the point 98 and 2k2 were given updates (98UM and 2k2UM) years after their releases, even after they had released sequels.

Now ideally, the company would release a game and leave it untouched for 5 or so years before a sequel. But we all know that they won't do that, both because they wont make money and because casuals wont like it. Updates mean that they get to continue making money while at the same time keeping casuals somewhat happy that they're seeing changes to the game.

Same over here, too! Mortal Kombat - ten games! However, most of us probably actually played half because MK went downhill after 3 (and that games had updates: UMK3, MKT) They tried the 3D thing with 4 - that clearly didn't work, thus games onwards disregarded the use. 5 seemed to get them back on track. Don't know much about 6 or 7 although, 7 (Armageddon) ties into a 9 a bit! However, vs. DC Universe ... let's just say they learned a hard lesson, thus we have Injustice.

Scorpion is just their pet, but that drove sells, considering the MK crowd hopped on the Injustice train because of it! However, this took nothing away from MK9 and thus X next year (and at least DT on Injustice II) I have only played the original three, 4, 5, 9 and will play X.

And the DLC stuff. From what I can see, NRS has the most sense - they know when to quit; however, I'll bitch about it too, if they start it! It would behoove them not to. Btw, MK9, wasn't just for hardcore fans given it's a retelling of the first three.; therefore any casual needn't go play three original three to get the story. I wouldn't suggest playing X first even if 9 is recapped though.

 

[Kohlrak]

I thought X was a whole new storyline to go with a whole new slew of characters.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

I thought X was a whole new storyline to go with a whole new slew of characters.

I'm sure it is, but for those who haven't played 9, I'm sure they'd have some questions. And I doubt they'd just discard the past characters despite what happened in 9. Cassie Cage, by this logic, should be the only character with a story since in-story, she's the offspring of Johnny and Sonya. (Given how they interacted with each other in 9 ...) We will see how all of this pans out, of course, but yes, X is focused on the future!

 

[Kohlrak]

I'm sure it is, but for those who haven't played 9, I'm sure they'd have some questions. And I doubt they'd just discard the past characters despite what happened in 9. Cassie Cage, by this logic, should be the only character with a story since in-story, she's the offspring of Johnny and Sonya. (Given how they interacted with each other in 9 ...) We will see how all of this pans out, of course, but yes, X is focused on the future!

That makes more sense with the MK storyline. Every time earth looses, they wait a generation, yet suddenly they don't wait when earth starts winning? I always found that weird. Anyway, back to the topic.

 

[Leifang]

I can understand why so many people got upset. They spent so much time and money on it, to find out a third version of the same game is going on the next gen. Mind you, with extra stuff, including the contest costume design originally set for DOA5U. That's like a slap in the face. Also I am aware, you can download it on PS3 and XBOX 360 for free. But I'm not feeling it, that's why I Pre-Order it. If you ask me, DOA5LR should of been DOA6 in the making. I believe, not many people would be complaining then. In fact, people would be super excited to get their hands on the new console so they can get the game.

 

[d3v]

And the DLC stuff. From what I can see, NRS has the most sense - they know when to quit...

Nah, NRS is actually worse in that all their DLC characters are planned from the start (similar to SFxT).

Instead of just adding them in the game, they purposely hold back so that they can nickel and dime folks.

The difference with what Capcom and TN are doing is that most of the additions are true additions that weren't originally planned to be added.

 

[Celestial Kurse]

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Nah, NRS is actually worse in that all their DLC characters are planned from the start (similar to SFxT).

Instead of just adding them in the game, they purposely hold back so that they can nickel and dime folks.

The difference with what Capcom and TN are doing is that most of the additions are true additions that weren't originally planned to be added.

Yet, I haven't heard any serious hardcore rants regarding them! I've heard lots of ranting about Disc-Locked-Content regarding other franchises though! I'm sure NRS has done some shit, too; yet, it's been 20 years and omg they still have a fanbase!

But why change your mind? Either you add them or you don't! "We planned to do this, but we waited for the chance to nickel-and-dime folks." You just said this regarding NRS; however, they don't act desperate pumping out shitloads of DLC every two damn seconds. NRS, may not be ridiculously stable, but they are not "pretending" to be in dire straits either. Alas, folks say TK is doing this because they're in dire straits! I wouldn't dare say this about EA - even with a straight face!

 

[Kohlrak]

Yet, I haven't heard any serious hardcore rants regarding them! I've heard lots of ranting about Disc-Locked-Content regarding other franchises though! I'm sure NRS has done some shit, too; yet, it's been 20 years and omg they still have a fanbase!

But why change your mind? Either you add them or you don't! "We planned to do this, but we waited for the chance to nickel-and-dime folks." You just said this regarding NRS; however, they don't act desperate pumping out shitloads of DLC every two damn seconds. NRS, may not be ridiculously stable, but they are not "pretending" to be in dire straits either. Alas, folks say TK is doing this because they're in dire straits! I wouldn't dare say this about EA - even with a straight face!

And Call of Duty? I don't know about the quality of the DLC, but let's face the games. You see, NRS doesn't get trouble because they make Mortal Kombat. Let's face it, these games get hardcore rants simply because we're afraid of our stuff dying. Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Mario, Kirby, The Legend of Zelda, etc. are not games we ever expect to disappear within 10 years. (I really want to add Tetris to the mix, but that's a very special case.)

The common denominator in community rants is the belief that a particular decision will significantly change the game (CRA in ace combat), have a severely negative impact on the game (elder scrolls online), or it will have a significantly negative impact on the community (the issue at hand in DoA). I might be missing something, but you get the idea. If you want to simplify it, people get mad when someone or something is getting screwed. People fear that screwing will end sequels. Look at all the minecraft rants, and you see textbook cases.

So we wanna go after the bikinis? Why are we mad? Wouldn't we just not buy them? Oh wait, we're mad because we want higher quality outfits instead of copy-pasta. What does that mean? We're sick of the presentation of the game taking a hit. We know that new people will come in throwing a fit about the obvious money grab. We know that a lack of variety looks bad for the game (though, really, what game has more outfit choices than Dead or Alive?). We know that someone out there is buying the outfits, in spite of the obvious grab, due to OCD. Most importantly, we know that if they're releasing copy-pasta outfits, they're not releasing something that significantly affects the game for the good.

 

[MeadowSpirit]

Nah, NRS is actually worse in that all their DLC characters are planned from the start (similar to SFxT).

Instead of just adding them in the game, they purposely hold back so that they can nickel and dime folks.

The difference with what Capcom and TN are doing is that most of the additions are true additions that weren't originally planned to be added.

You're exactly right. NRS gets a pass for some reason, even though their DLC characters come out immediately after the game's released, and despite the fact that their games are so buggy that they have to be patched every half an hour. TK (and Capcom) are giving us what many of us want. I WANT DOA5 LR on PS4 and I'll pay for it! I'm ready to set my beloved PS3 on an ice floe and move on. Folks have ALWAYS kicked and screamed when a new console generation arrives and they're left behind. I want TK to make the definitive version of DOA5 for current gen so that we have something to play for the next few years while they develop DOA6.

That's my two cents, filthy E+ ranked casual that I am.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

And Call of Duty? I don't know about the quality of the DLC, but let's face the games. You see, NRS doesn't get trouble because they make Mortal Kombat. Let's face it, these games get hardcore rants simply because we're afraid of our stuff dying. Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, Mario, Kirby, The Legend of Zelda, etc. are not games we ever expect to disappear within 10 years. (I really want to add Tetris to the mix, but that's a very special case.)

The common denominator in community rants is the belief that a particular decision will significantly change the game (CRA in ace combat), have a severely negative impact on the game (elder scrolls online), or it will have a significantly negative impact on the community (the issue at hand in DoA). I might be missing something, but you get the idea. If you want to simplify it, people get mad when someone or something is getting screwed. People fear that screwing will end sequels. Look at all the minecraft rants, and you see textbook cases.

So we wanna go after the bikinis? Why are we mad? Wouldn't we just not buy them? Oh wait, we're mad because we want higher quality outfits instead of copy-pasta. What does that mean? We're sick of the presentation of the game taking a hit. We know that new people will come in throwing a fit about the obvious money grab. We know that a lack of variety looks bad for the game (though, really, what game has more outfit choices than Dead or Alive?). We know that someone out there is buying the outfits, in spite of the obvious grab, due to OCD. Most importantly, we know that if they're releasing copy-pasta outfits, they're not releasing something that significantly affects the game for the good.

Tetris? This brings up something totally different, but it's not about Pajitnov not receiving anything, if not very little (Yet, we have tons of tetris and like games. Even the match-three games, that started with Tetris 2, it's sequel) And he pretty much owns it, Tetris Co., LLC!

Nintendo's venture into portables! The good ole monochrome device - the Gameboy! Similar to what is being done today with console bundles, granted that piece of hardware gained software, it didn't sell until Tetris was added! That "let's construct a building then tear it down" helped arguably the greatest portable in history cement itself. Despite all of it's variations: Color, Advance, etc., we now have 2DS, 3DS, etc.

Tetris has been on practically everything! Arcades, Consoles, Portables. Hell, physical board games! This game has been around longer than MK and I grew up on MK, but I've played Tetris alot longer!

But my question is: Why hasn't MS invested in portables, yet? The Xbox isn't exactly a portable version of the PC if you know what I mean! Have they not done it because they saw the Sony was failing with the PSP/Vita? Yet, Nintendo is "succeeding" with their portables and after having bought Minecraft, but not being able to sell the XBO (yet) - even when it does start selling, why not take the gamble with a portable? It doesn't have to utilize cross-play like the PSP/Vita - although that would be nice, but if there portable actually sells and {B]outsells[/B] that brick you call a console ... it's not like they can't attempt it!

XBO portable for $199; $149 if no one initially buys it? I'd get it - even if there is lesser software on it, I'll be able to kill time until the hardcore titles release on the console and if you can "play on the go" (If DVR companies can have customers, "Pause in one room. Resume in another.") Like I said, Sony's doing it whether it's succeeding or not.

That's besides the point, but it seemed interesting enough to throw it out there.

But yes, it comes to this generation divide I guess. Hardcore vs. Casual, but we were all casuals at some point. However, why are Wii U sales dropping? No hardcore stuff - and when they did try (Mad World, Bayonetta 2), well, enough said! Thus, they went back to staunch franchises and check the advertisements. Yet, it's even more ironic that the feeling of hardcore games are being dumbed down for casuals - on, you guessed it - hardcore systems.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for inclusiveness, but what happens when you evoke the "one size fits all clause?" See? No one wants exclusivity, but at the same time, they don't want inclusiveness for the wrong reasons! Catch 22, I suppose!

 

[Kohlrak]

Tetris? This brings up something totally different, but it's not about Pajitnov not receiving anything, if not very little (Yet, we have tons of tetris and like games. Even the match-three games, that started with Tetris 2, it's sequel) And he pretty much owns it, Tetris Co., LLC!
Nintendo's venture into portables! The good ole monochrome device - the Gameboy! Similar to what is being done today with console bundles, granted that piece of hardware gained software, it didn't sell until Tetris was added! That "let's construct a building then tear it down" helped arguably the greatest portable in history cement itself. Despite all of it's variations: Color, Advance, etc., we now have 2DS, 3DS, etc.
Tetris has been on practically everything! Arcades, Consoles, Portables. Hell, physical board games! This game has been around longer than MK and I grew up on MK, but I've played Tetris alot longer!

It's also a common example program in any given programming language just to show you every feature of the language.

But my question is: Why hasn't MS invested in portables, yet? The Xbox isn't exactly a portable version of the PC if you know what I mean! Have they not done it because they saw the Sony was failing with the PSP/Vita? Yet, Nintendo is "succeeding" with their portables and after having bought Minecraft, but not being able to sell the XBO (yet) - even when it does start selling, why not take the gamble with a portable? It doesn't have to utilize cross-play like the PSP/Vita - although that would be nice, but if there portable actually sells and {B]outsells[/B] that brick you call a console ... it's not like they can't attempt it!

The answer is the same reason why Nintendo and Sony don't make phones. MS has a phone, and they're gonna try to solidify it with Minecraft.

XBO portable for $199; $149 if no one initially buys it? I'd get it - even if there is lesser software on it, I'll be able to kill time until the hardcore titles release on the console and if you can "play on the go" (If DVR companies can have customers, "Pause in one room. Resume in another.") Like I said, Sony's doing it whether it's succeeding or not.

Define success of a console. Sony has surely gained what they paid on the thing.

That's besides the point, but it seemed interesting enough to throw it out there.
But yes, it comes to this generation divide I guess. Hardcore vs. Casual, but we were all casuals at some point.

Thank you. I've been wanting someone to say that, because it's necessary for the community to understand when dealing with new people. They are casuals, and blasting them for it just pushes them away and the community gains nothing (but that's a separate issue).

However, why are Wii U sales dropping? No hardcore stuff - and when they did try (Mad World, Bayonetta 2), well, enough said! Thus, they went back to staunch franchises and check the advertisements. Yet, it's even more ironic that the feeling of hardcore games are being dumbed down for casuals - on, you guessed it - hardcore systems.

Goes back to the DLC strike idea. 3ds didn't do overly well with the hardcore franchises. Tekken? It's overpriced on amazon simply because of limited quantity of games. DoA? Right... Samurai Warriors? Who plays that again? Metal Gear Solid 3D? Oh right, everyone's got a copy. Nintendo simply interpreted it as that no one wants hardcore on nintendo. And it doesn't help that people constantly bash the system as a casuals system. As a result, they don't drop the price of dev-kits for hardcore games. Other companies are looking at the Wii and are like "dude, they beat us last round, and when we came up with our own wiimote, it failed, so it must be the casual games." Although this was going on before hand, it's no secret that people don't play hardcore games because of their inaccessability. Instead of improving tutorials and training (much investment), they just make the game easier (cheaper to make than their normal style).

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for inclusiveness, but what happens when you evoke the "one size fits all clause?" See? No one wants exclusivity, but at the same time, they don't want inclusiveness for the wrong reasons! Catch 22, I suppose!

Everyone lacks perspective. =p

 

[lotr9690]

Hope this is the right place to say this:

Before I begin: I understand that they want to incentivize the PS4's version.

When I first heard of DOA5LR I was like "yaaay!" and then once they told me they weren't making identical versions on PS3/PS4 I freaked out; then Persona 5 was announced on PS4 and so I went out and bought a PS4 -- BUT! I still feel it's messed up they don't just add the stages in both upon release. (Basically I'm riding the fence, which will probably piss everyone off, but oh, well. I don't need to commit myself to a side.)

The extra stuff is kind of trivial. I'm not just saying this because I can get it on the PS4, but I'm not really angry about it anymore. I think, this means we can continue on DOA5U/LR for a long time. I don't know why I would stop playing on DOA5U/LR with my PS3.

I'm still going to go on my PS3 account even though I'm getting DOA5LR on PS4. Most of my friends do not have PS4s because they don't want to spend their discretionary spending on a $400 gaming item. (And, yes, that's how my friends and I discuss money. We call it discretionary spending. Try it with your friends; they'll either laugh or attempt to punch you. Or they will do nothing. Or you already call money that. If this is the case for you, then you're probably my friend.)

I still think they should give the PS3 versions the stages on launch (especially since it's digitally released.)

I know it doesn't matter at this stage but they should improve the stages further. I don't know how. They just don't feel finished to me. They are only 3 cliffhangers? Is that right? 3? What happened to the spectacle of DOA stages?

 

[Kohlrak]

Hope this is the right place to say this:

Before I begin: I understand that they want to incentivize the PS4's version.

When I first heard of DOA5LR I was like "yaaay!" and then once they told me they weren't making identical versions on PS3/PS4 I freaked out; then Persona 5 was announced on PS4 and so I went out and bought a PS4 -- BUT! I still feel it's messed up they don't just add the stages in both upon release. (Basically I'm riding the fence, which will probably piss everyone off, but oh, well. I don't need to commit myself to a side.)

The extra stuff is kind of trivial. I'm not just saying this because I can get it on the PS4, but I'm not really angry about it anymore. I think, this means we can continue on DOA5U/LR for a long time. I don't know why I would stop playing on DOA5U/LR with my PS3.

I'm still going to go on my PS3 account even though I'm getting DOA5LR on PS4. Most of my friends do not have PS4s because they don't want to spend their discretionary spending on a $400 gaming item. (And, yes, that's how my friends and I discuss money. We call it discretionary spending. Try it with your friends; they'll either laugh or attempt to punch you. Or they will do nothing. Or you already call money that. If this is the case for you, then you're probably my friend.)

I still think they should give the PS3 versions the stages on launch (especially since it's digitally released.)

I know it doesn't matter at this stage but they should improve the stages further. I don't know how. They just don't feel finished to me. They are only 3 cliffhangers? Is that right? 3? What happened to the spectacle of DOA stages?

Pretty much what Master said, aside from "blame TK, not TN."