DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion

[iHajinShinobi]

Lol, I can give my thoughts too y'know! BT PP6PK connected after a lowest height 4P launch, but BT PP6P~K usually dropped. However, BT PP4PP7K fully connects like it's supposed to. Juggles are easier to connect in 5U.

In DOA5 Vanilla, 4P, BT4P and BTPP6P all had the same launch height, and BTPP6~K was guaranteed. I know it was because I've always used this on light and heavy weight (genfu). In 5U before 1.03, the nerf to it's launch height is why it was difficult to connect a BTPP6P~K.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Just a heads up, some things I'm going to update the Ayane sub-forums with awhile after SCR;

- Her frame data for DOA5U
- The official match up thread
- A FAQ about DOA5U Ayane (maybe but most likely)

Training for SCR is my priority right now, so I don't have time for these things until then.

 

[NinjaSol1988]

does ayane have any force techs? trying to pick her back up but i dont remember much with her

 

[Force_of_Nature]

does ayane have any force techs? trying to pick her back up but i dont remember much with her

Her useful ones (i.e. BT PP(2)PK for instance) are gone now, but you can attempt to force people up with 1P or (1)PK, or 2H+K. Her closest thing to a decent FT is using PP6K2K after a low-level juggle from Front Stance.

In general forcing people up with Ayane usually isn't a focus because she has some of the best ways to reposition herself during oki thanks to 1P+K or 7P for example. Making it hard for the opponent to get back in on you isn't a bad idea but requires patience.

 

[NinjaSol1988]

i see still never hurts to ask anything can help

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Next week I'm going to provide my brethren with Ayane's frame data for DOA5U after Marie Rose is released.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Her useful ones (i.e. BT PP(2)PK for instance) are gone now, but you can attempt to force people up with 1P or (1)PK, or 2H+K. Her closest thing to a decent FT is using PP6K2K after a low-level juggle from Front Stance.

In general forcing people up with Ayane usually isn't a focus because she has some of the best ways to reposition herself during oki thanks to 1P+K or 7P for example. Making it hard for the opponent to get back in on you isn't a bad idea but requires patience.

I overlooked this. For the record, force teching with Ayane is actually worth it. Using 6K > 6K2K (delay the low sweep) or ending certain juggles or low height juggles with PP6K2K (again delay the low sweep) is very strong for a couple of reasons.

If players manage to tech, your seemingly +0 neutral advantage feels more like +4 and none of your well-timed strike follow ups will be counter hit. I can do 3H+K against an i11 frame mid and counter hit it clean every single time.

If players don't tech, your well-timed 2H+K will force them up and you're at +18 with a lot of options. Force teching is a powerful tool, and if a character can take advantage of it, you better use it. Ayane's oki is very good in this game.

Keep exploring bro.

 

[Female Tengu]

The super long list of changes from the 1.05 update, for our purple Kunoichi:

- hit detection adjusted for heavy ground attacks

- 3H+K: Damage increased from 23 to 26.


Source: http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/ultimate/us/information/info_20140325.html

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I've been messing around a little bit with BT PP2P in the lab. I've noticed that if the 3 hits from the string connect during a stun with the 3rd hit (the low) knocking the opponent down, you can get a Pseudo-Force Tech by following up by finishing the string (BT PP2P~K (delay the K a bit)), or using the i13 BT (1)PK. You're at +12 if you wake the opponent up with BT PP2P~K and +13 if you wake them up with BT (1)PK. I initiated the stun with 66KK4, which put the Critical Damage at 11/28.

Dunno how useful this shit will be, but I always get giddy when I discover new PFT opportunities, and get interested if anyone expanded on it.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I should probably give my Hajinmon brethren an explanation about NCR...

So, as some of you may know, I've recently won the NorCal Regionals 2014 tournament major in DOA5U this past weekend. Those of you who have seen the placings for top 8 are probably wondering about my character choice for the tournament, so I'll explain why I played who decided to play.

Let's start off with the tournament itself. A week after SCR was finished, I resumed my training with Ayane, while also learning Marie Rose. About two weeks after Marie Rose's release, I left her alone and focused on just Ayane in preparation of NCR. I've been putting numerous hours into lab time and casuals (online and offline), getting ready. Meanwhile, I and a few others tried to advertise DOA at NCR. I told every NorCal and SoCal player I know about NCR, I've sent out several reminders, talked about it on facebook, twitter, etc.

I asked to have the NCR thread front paged, and the request was ignored and overlooked by all moderators and administrators here at FSD, which is very disappointing in itself that they do not pay attention to detail here.

Yes, DOA5U was a side tournament instead of a main game as it was at SCR this year, however, it's a tournament major and it's still up to us to come out and support our game. Knowing all of this, after time kept passing by, I assumed there wouldn't be a good turnout like SCR. I was expecting 16 players to attend, at least.

The day of the tournament, Requiem, Prince Adon and I arrive early so we can prepare the DOA set ups. We talk with John Choi and he tells us DOA5U has 20 entrants, which is a pretty okay number for DOA. But then, only 12 out of 20 arrived. The turnout was very low, this itself bothered me but then knowing this, my AFD teammates decided not to play seriously. On top of this, we also later learned that CrazySteady was unable to make it out as well. These 3 things combined just made me lose all of my motivation for this tournament.

I really wanted to play CrazySteady offline again, I was preparing for that match up. Win or lose, I really wanted the opportunity to play him again. I also wanted to face my teammates in a tournament setting again but they decided not to play seriously. I can't really blame them, with how the tournament turned out, I can see why. It just felt like no one really cared about NCR this year.

All of this into mix, I just didn't care to play as passionately and determined as I did on arrival to NCR. So I just played my pocket character, genfu, instead. Of course, I could have just played Ayane anyway and won, and said I won a major with Ayane. But here's the thing, all of these things happening, it felt like this event was just handed to me on a silver platter. And that feeling disgusts me, if I played and won with Ayane under these conditions at a major, I'd feel very disgraceful and unsatisfied (well I already feel unsatisfied) claiming a victory like this.

I play for quality, pride, and to win. I couldn't pride myself if I won using Ayane this way, because I want to earn my win, not have it handed to me for free. This is why I pride myself with how well my play performance was at SCR, because I played my best. Beating one of the best defensive and footsie players on the east coast, and playing in grand finals, while also making a bracket reset. I was never upset nor salty about the loss. I made it far and placed 2nd with Ayane versus some very tough opponents, and I really love that feeling. The challenge I'd get from playing strong players is why I like attending majors when I'm able to.

I didn't have that feeling at NCR, so I didn't play Ayane, and as I said, even if I did it wouldn't feel right winning with her with the way the tournament ended up being.

This was the last major I'll be at for awhile, until possibly Summer Jam or The Fall Classic later this year. Having this win, especially under these conditions just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I am not proud nor happy with this win.

I mean no offense to anyone that attended NCR for DOA, nor am I blaming anyone or upset with anyone. Things happen, I'm just not satisfied with the way things turned out. I still enjoyed the day hanging out and playing everyone. I just wanted the tournament to feel almost as hype as SCR did.

 

[Kronin]

First of all congratulations for the victory @iHajinShinobi, even if after to have read your summarize of the events you have all the reasons for not feeling the proper taste from a such performance. It's a real shame that the DoA torunament at NCR wasn't seriously considered this year; under these assumptions in the end I think that was right to not win with your main a tourney that you didn't consider worthy to be related with the showing of your best abilities.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

First of all congratulations for the victory @iHajinShinobi, even if after to have read your summarize of the events you have all the reasons for not feeling the proper tase from a such performance. It's a real shame that the DoA torunament at NCR wasn't seriously considered this year; under these assumptions in the end I think that was right to not associate a victory with your main to a tourney that you didn't consider worthy to be related with the showing of your best abilities.

Yeah. :/

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I'm sorry to hear that NCR did not turn out the way you hoped iHajin. I know that you put your heart & soul into the DOA community and the turnout was disappointing. I will be sure to do what I can to represent Ayane at TTT TORYUKEN III on May 18th next month! #Hajinmonrepresentativeofcanada.

 

[J.D.E.]

I haven't commented here in a while as an Ayane player, but I've been doing some lab work with her lately & often. I had to readjust to her playstyle & even change up my button layout for her. I have to say that 1P+K & 33 as a shoulder button on my controller honestly feels better than the 11 & 33 input to me from vanilla.

In recent tournaments, I've played her in casuals & had some good sets. However, I didn't want to 2nd guess myself or make a mistake of not using my most competent, consistent & comfortable character, which is Kasumi. As we all now, Ayane is very time consuming & if you're going to be effective with her, then you have to put in MAD work! I knew that if I played Ayane within any event, based on that state that I was in with her, there was a very strong chance that I would've probably lost a lot of matches & not placed as high. I even mentioned it in my blog over that weekend if some of you read.

During the Final Round 17 week, I got plenty of offline casuals in with her to the point where I started picking up on her new material such as her 1P+KP (charged for a GB of +5), 64T/64H setups, her 3H+K options, 46H juggles (Pwhiff 6P 66KK4 BT4P~K & 8K 8KK BT PP4PP7K), & P4P/BTP4P (probably my favorite tool now other than P > BT8P) & the consistency has been coming back. Getting good casuals in with the likes of Requiem, Sweet Revenge, Mr.Kwiggle, Sonic Fox, Shade Swifteye, Awesmic, Bushido, Blader RD, MMA Boss & many others are helping tons.

So with all of that being said, I'm going to start back playing her in tournaments now with Kasumi. I technically play 3 characters with Momiji being the 3rd. I have to keep playing her. I won't be active in any majors until around Summer Jam 8 & TFC14. However, I may be able to make a few locals & offline gatherings around my area between now & then.

I also want to state this: because Kasumi, Ayane, & Momiji are my favorite characters, when someone wins with them or place with them, I feel like I also win. My niece also likes Ayane lol. So with that said, congrats to fellow brethern that have done well with her in the past. I salute #ReppingBothSides

P.S. The infiltrator ninja suit is my new default

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I also want to state this: because Kasumi, Ayane, & Momiji are my favorite characters, when someone wins with them or place with them, then that means I also win. My niece also likes Ayane lol. So with that said, congrats to fellow brethern that have done well with her in the past. I salute #ReppingBothSides

I like the cut of your jib JDE, you get props from me~! #kunoichi4lyfe

 

[J.D.E.]

I like the cut of your jib JDE, you get props from me~! #kunoichi4lyfe

Why thank you good sir.

 

[Female Tengu]

in the end I think that was right to not associate a victory with your main to a tourney that you didn't consider worthy to be related with the showing of your best abilities.

And here comes the big "I disagree" I guess...

...because:

@iHajin

That was an interesting read. I always wanted to ask you that but was afraid of the outcome of the following discussion.

Even though you gave reasons, it's hard for me to "accept" your choice. It's hard to describe, cauz I do accept your personal feelings and can even understand them. But since I have first seen you here, you always talked about Ayane and tournaments in older posts and that winning tournaments with her was and still is one of your personal goals.

I play for quality, pride, and to win.

By that said, isn't Ayane your best character actually? You are one the best Ayane players out there by far. Your Ayane is top notched quality. Period. [quality]

I do remember that winning a (major) tournament with Ayane was and still is one of your biggest goals? [pride]

Why would you not choose your main character to win the tournament if winning is one important aspect to you? [to win]

if I won using Ayane this way, because I want to earn my win, not have it handed to me for free

A win with Ayane is a win with Ayane. And therefore it should make you proud winning with her, no matter how "bad" the other players are/were or how small that tournament was. Your opponents visited that tournament as well to show who is the best (of course the community feeling and fun are major parts, but without a doubt, deep inside you always have that I-wanna-win feeling when you compete).

For a fraction of some minutes you literally threw everything away you have learned and experienced with this character. YOUR character. And with it half of your DOA life and all of your hard work maybe.

As for me: I couldn't accept this if I were you. I guess I'm the exacpt opposite then. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a-winning-is-everything-for-me oriented player with an asshole attitude when it comes to such things. But I'm one of these types who can be plain serious when it comes to competition and still being nice to others and having a good time with them.

And that feeling disgusts me, if I played and won with Ayane under these conditions at a major, I'd feel very disgraceful and unsatisfied (well I already feel unsatisfied) claiming a victory like this.

It's absolutely not your fault that only a few players arrived. Why are you blaming yourself for that manner? iHajin, there is no need for that. You should blame the community for giving you such a dirty feeling. Dirty stuff like that:

and the request was ignored and overlooked by all moderators and administrators here at FSD, which is very disappointing in itself that they do not pay attention to detail here.

You have let others throwing stones in your way, blocking your path of your own vision. This....shouldn't happen because at some point I see it as a weakness, which opens your guard. But this is my own opinion. I have experienced similar things, (with bad results sometimes), and that's why I can understand and don't understand you at the same time.



Again, congratulations for your win. I hope my opinion and my own feelings doesn't change anything about our little friendship here. Nothing has changed because you think different. We all do. I just wanted to say that because you started to talk about it here. And don't see my post as "do as I say" thing. This is not my intention and never will be. Stay as you are but always feel good ^^

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yes, winning a major using my strongest and favorite character is my biggest goal. But winning that tournament under those conditions is not what I wanted. With the way NCR turned out, my heart just wasn't in it. I am very passionate about playing Ayane in a solid competitive environment. I enjoy the thrill of a strong challenge, whether I win or not.

I understand what you're saying, and I respect your opinion.

 

[Aerospark]

I have a question. Is Ayane's 4H+K any good in DOA5U? And what exactly is it good for?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I have a question. Is Ayane's 4H+K any good in DOA5U? And what exactly is it good for?

Yes, 4H+K is very good. It is a natural limbo and crumple stun on normal hit and counter hit. The limbo stun (you cannot hold out of limbo stun) guarantees a 4P+K launcher for a high launch. Crumple stun allows an opponent to hold but they have to guess, you cannot stagger out crumple stuns.

4H+K has a lot of range and tracking, but it's not a range poke by any means. It's -17 on block, making it i12 frame throw punishable. It's best used for ranged whiff punishment and in critical stun threshold.