So how do you play this game?

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
In Vanilla you fished for sit-down stuns but what about in Ultimate?

It seems that there are fewer of those, at least for the characters I tried.

So how am I supposed to fish for damage in this game? What kinds of things should I be doing?
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
According to most people, I play like a no-name scrub who will never improve, never measure up to anything, and make the same mistakes because I don't complain enough about what's wrong with the game and continue to stay positive about using my character to the best of my abilities. Nevertheless, I keep on trucking for those who say otherwise.

As a Christie player without vanilla force techs, a 7k that no longer sidestep holds and a limited means of getting the wall throw, I feel like I'm playing DOA 3.1 with a hint of DOAD's ground game, true sidestepping, and bounds. Since I don't have many good sit-down stuns, I do what I can to play smart, look for ways to mix my opponent up for throws such as guard breaks, pokes, or whatever. The timing to get the few force techs and comboing from opponents in bound state take some time and practice, but right now I gotta focus on Power Launcher tech, fuzzy guarding, and learning how to fight these new characters I'm unfamiliar with.
 

Ren Fujin

Member
I admire your ability to remain positive regardless of how dire the situation seems.
I'm not sure what to think yet ... as a Hitomi player, I thought she had it bad but it seems every single char except the new ones got nerfed pretty hard. I'm starting to think TN wants this game to be played a very certain way most of us here wouldn't agree with.
Seems every new mechanic they put into the game save for Power Launchers was meant to keep people from dealing as much damage as they would in DOA5 - I'm talking about the overall nerf of the ground game, and those bounds that only garantee shit juggles.
 

FakeSypha

Well-Known Member
I don't even know...

I'm playing Christie like before, but without her FTs, so I kinda fail to keep pressure in some situations. But I get away since she is faster and her JAK is still pretty awesome. I go for the doa basics, or at least I try to. Like block > throw punish; stun > launcher > juggle; some 214P to punish wakeup kicks; mix up my stun game; some holds here; some pokes there, some spacing and whiff punishing. I'm not using bounds at all.

Sadly the guys I've fought are just picking up the game, or played some vanilla DOA5 and now are getting back, etc. It's not like I'm playing tourney level players, so what I've said above has little value, lol.
 

MasterHavik

Well-Known Member
I admire your ability to remain positive regardless of how dire the situation seems.
I'm not sure what to think yet ... as a Hitomi player, I thought she had it bad but it seems every single char except the new ones got nerfed pretty hard. I'm starting to think TN wants this game to be played a very certain way most of us here wouldn't agree with.
Seems every new mechanic they put into the game save for Power Launchers was meant to keep people from dealing as much damage as they would in DOA5 - I'm talking about the overall nerf of the ground game, and those bounds that only garantee shit juggles.
how do they want us to play it? Some say it plays like doa 3.1.
 

Ren Fujin

Member
how do they want us to play it? Some say it plays like doa 3.1.
Not sure ... feels like they want the players to rely on mind games more.
Less garanteed setups and less damage dealing potential means longer fights and more guessing. It sure feels like a more forgiving game than DOA5 was, so far.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Part of that is the lifebar.

As for the sit downs, the new characters all have them. Momiji can chain together like three in a row if she feels like it.

The old characters have them as well. Hitomi got a new one. A few got turned into bounds.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I admire your ability to remain positive regardless of how dire the situation seems.
I'm not sure what to think yet ... as a Hitomi player, I thought she had it bad but it seems every single char except the new ones got nerfed pretty hard. I'm starting to think TN wants this game to be played a very certain way most of us here wouldn't agree with.
Seems every new mechanic they put into the game save for Power Launchers was meant to keep people from dealing as much damage as they would in DOA5 - I'm talking about the overall nerf of the ground game, and those bounds that only garantee shit juggles.

This is far from the truth. I've said this shit so many times already...

Learn the game, it's obvious and apparent that DOA5U is not exactly the same as DOA5. Characters have been changed, deal with it, figure out what they're capable of in this game and readjust.

My character; Ayane:

If we're really going out of our way to just look for the bad, she's only got one. 1P+KP and BT PPPP went from being a guard break and +5 to -8, which is pure unsafety. Okay that hurts, sure. But there is an upside, and guess what it is? 4P+KP, which is 3rd and 4th hits of her BT PPPP string.

Why is this actually good? Because now Ayane has a mid punch option that stuns on normal hit while she's back turned, this gave her the ability to further her mix ups within the threshold without relying only on a high or a low. 4P+KP also leads into an unstaggerable gut stun, which gives me my 50/50 much earlier than before. This change alone has increased her already solid ability to reach a Critical burst (which she doesn't even need or have to use at all to get any solid damage but now opponents are even more fucked because of it). She lost a guard break in exchange for better mix ups during hit confirms, I can cope with that.

What did she gain that's actually good? A new short string, P4P. 10 frame jab into a mid punch, leaves her back turned, +0 on hit, -5 on block, stuns on counter hit. I'm probably the only player here that realizes just how stupid this made her already solid jab cancel mixups, more stupid. It has a decent delay, so you can fish for counter hit stun against players mashing after her jab cancels or are actually trying to press buttons after blocking her jab (because her jab is -1 on block what are you really going to do about that? Aside from getting hi counter hit by my BT6P?). Her jab cancel mixups just became more dangerous.

In addition, P4P is great for her stun game and counter hit stun > launch. And now that holds have increased recovery, my throws are guaranteed if I see you holding out of stun. Especially if you are low holding (such a bad habit).

3H+K: I kept quiet about everything in regards to Ayane's changes around here on the forums, while almost everyone else was in panic mode crying and screaming nerfs. I saw the bound in the trailers, then I am told and had it confirmed that bounds can lead into good or potentially solid damage. This move wasn't hit hard at all in the slightest. What really changed is it being -3 on block now instead of it being +0 on block, so you can't frame trap anyone but who cares? She's still incredibly safe if it's blocked and you are not punishing her either, you are counterhit hard if you try.

If this hits, you reap the benefits because 3H+K has very good combo potential both midscreen and near walls (and on walls her same 3H+K wall combos from Vanilla still apply). Right now Ayane's BnB for 3H+K is; 3H+K > 66 Free cancel > 66KK4 BT7K for 56 damage (on normal hit). And that's universal, not weight specific.

Her 4K is still a sitdown stun with guaranteed followups.

1P+K is a 1 frame (instant) as opposed to her old 11 backspin, which took 3 frames. She has access to the generic KBD now. A character with KBD and solid Integrated is wonderful in my eyes.

4P+K actually launches slightly higher now than it did in Vanilla because of that new juggle airstate. She has a higher damaging combo from her 64H+P throw and 64H advanced mid punch hold on lightweights now because of it on flat ground terrain. Speaking of which, both 64H+P and 64H advantages are still intact, nothing off about either of them.

Her 4P is still intact. Her 66KK4/BTPP6KK4 are still intact. 3H+K is still intact. All of her other crushes are still intact, all of her CQC and range tools are still intact.

1P+KK no longer tracks, but it is now -5 in exchange. -5 up close, -3 at a distace and -1 at tip range. You're not throwing this unless it's a grappler at -5.

She's received some tweaks, but is in no way nerfed hard. She's received a few buffs. And this is all just from Day 1 play.

The guaranteed damage is still in the game. And, it's so remarkably funny how most players whin about guaranteed damage, when most playing this game don't even opt for it. Most don't even know that throw punishment exist in the game.
 
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MasterHavik

Well-Known Member
This is far from the truth. I've said this shit so many times already...

Learn the game, it's obvious and apparent that DOA5U is not exactly the same as DOA5. Characters have been changed, deal with it, figure out what they're capable of in this game and readjust.
So shut up and get better? So true and such strong words.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
"My amazing character is still good!"

The point is that everyone, including those that do not even play the character, said she was being nerfed, and hard. Just because I can prove that shit was false just means hardly anyone really knows this chararcter.

Try to be a smartass somewhere else if you're not going to actually discuss the game or can provide information to prove the hopeless wrong. Thank you.
 

StrikerSashi

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
The point is that just 'cause Ayane still has tricks, doesn't mean everyone else does. Eliot pretty much lost all his good moves and got a low entry to stun and a tracking move that leads to nothing. You expect him to deal with Rachel and Alpha? I'm not saying it's impossible to win, but having "balance" like this doesn't encourage a positive outlook.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong and we find a triple sit down stun setup for Kokoro tomorrow like Momiji. Maybe Eliot gets to land something after a bound. I'll apologize when that happens. Until then, I'm not taking anything back.

Also, big difference between people talking about Ayane being nerfed before the game was released to people's complaining after playing.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
Right now it's looking like TN really limited the ways you can play DOA with 5U, just from removal of oki alone. I was hoping they'd at least implement Tekken style bounds for all characters where you can extend juggles all day, making up for the larger lifebar, but no such luck. Right now you have to try landing a slow sit down stun about 5 times, or try to outguess opponent in stun game. The pacing of the fights feel really weak now
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
A lot of people still whined (actually most still do) until I said anything. The Ayane section was getting out of control until I said anything to keep others calm. I've put one day's time into the game, ONE DAY, and my section has calmed down and began looking for shit.

It's something I would expect the other players and competent minds to do for their chararcters and their respective sections on the forums. Just because a character has been hit somewhere does not imply that it is the end. It hasn't been a week yet since the game's official release and majority are whinning their asses off without actually putting more than 20-25 hours of lab time into the game.

Like Tenryuga said, stop being bitch ass niggas, go figure what's changed and what's new and what can be used and what's effective or ineffective.

Fuck, yo...I can't imagine how the lot of you are going to act within the next month. So stupid...
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
The point is that just 'cause Ayane still has tricks, doesn't mean everyone else does. Eliot pretty much lost all his good moves and got a low entry to stun and a tracking move that leads to nothing. You expect him to deal with Rachel and Alpha?

I can always counter my way to victory :( oops... His counters are kinda crappy too lol. It seems only the people who've mained Eliot and actually know his tools and understand his struggles. I've came across a few hidden buffs, but nothing to help him exponentially as a character. Spending another hour in the "lab" isn't going to change anything for him or his match ups.
 
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