Soapbox: Community Activism and the DOA Narrative

[Rikuto]

But he didn't.

Except that he did. I'll post it again.

I'm honestly done with this game, because It got boring the community has gotten worse. Maybe I'd pick it up if doa6 is better. But atm I'm just tired of this game and it's community. Peace.

See, I have no trouble letting someone like that go. It's easy. We don't need absolutely every single player who looks at the game in order to survive. I mean yea, we could beg and whine and try to pretend to be his friend but the reality is he pretty much just took a shit on all of you. Why would you even want him around? Let him go.


People can come into this community and have different levels of interest. That's fine. All I expect out of anyone is a decent attitude with regards to the communities members, and a passion for the game. He couldn't get either of those right. Expendable.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I honestly don't think he seems that interested in contributing. I tend to focus my energy on people that are interested in contributing instead of wasting time on people that don't.

Well that's because he seems to be fed up with that certain part of the community. With that, I can completely understand where he's coming from and why he feels the way he does. He would rather not want to embrace that and that can also be a reason why he doesn't want to play anymore.

We've met and had casuals before already, and he's one of the nicest players I've met in NorCal.

What needs to be done here is focus on the objectives @boobiebombs layed out, and do what we can for people that want to do something positive with DOA.

 

[Jyakotu]

I agree with everything you posted @boobiebombs. The DOA community is small and tight knit, however, it does have room to grow. I have such a passion for this game that I don't have with the other 3D fighters that I also play, and part of the reason is because Team Ninja puts in so much support into the game. They are a very community focused developer, which is something that I love about them, even if I don't agree with every decision they make. The main thing we need to do as a community is to embrace all aspects of DOA. No fighting game is perfect and DOA is no exception. However, the belittling of the breast physics, costumes, Triangle System, online is getting old. Constructive criticism of these issues is fine, but as I've said time and time again, people who use the "sex appeal is too much" excuse obviously do not want to go beyond the aesthetics of the game and dig deep into the gameplay mechanics. But for those who can look beyond the breasts and sex appeal, those are the players we need to go after.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Contributing to the community doesn't necessarily mean attending an offline tourney. It means doing something positive that boosts DOA's profile and levels up the game, whilst strengthening its presence in the FGC.

This is what I've been doing as best as I can since I cannot contribute to going to offline tournies or write up strats and guides.

I'll try my damnest to explain how I play characters and how the game works. My brother is also a fan of DOA but to the same extent as I am and he tries to atleast be good at it to mean something. My friends are also interested in it...but MKX, SF5, T7...and trying to keep their game up at UMVC3...yeah, it's going to be pretty hard actually getting them to buy the game and get more newcomers.

And whenever I'm on stream chat, I do my best to combat trolls and tell them what's up and funny enough, I have plenty of people who do the exact same thing...

Rant incoming:
My real major issue...is the people who try and speak for the community and fuck up bigtime. I HATE bringing this back up...but the costume ban is easily one of the biggest blackeyes we got. Now some will say we got exposure...except from the wrong sources. Kotaku is seen as the joke of the gaming community filled with people who either don't care or never gave a shit but EVERYWHERE ELSE the ban was seen as a joke. I literally could not go nowhere without seeing people on stream say how dumb it was, random forums saying how dumb it was, people who make videos say how dumb it was, streamers, bloggers, etc.
And this decision was made literally only accounting for offline player input without even trying to make it something to even VOTE for. Which if anything pissed off the players even moreso because it said fuck the input of ANYONE ELSE but certain people because fuck you...it may not have been directly but that's exactly how it was seen.

You have people whining about DLC even though you don't need to buy it, you have people whining about breast physics even though you can turn it OFF, you have people whining about the Triangle system despite the fact that the only way you can abuse it is if you was a Piece of Shit cheating AI, you have people whining about Destructible Clothing even though it was a shoutout to Senran Kagura and apparently will be the only cloths with the feature, etc.
There are certain types of people we want:
-Those that want to play the game but is on the fence.
-Those that are interested in it.

And there are those we shouldn't give 2 shits about:
-Those that want our games to be like Tekken, SF, etc.
-Those that never cared about the game at all, will never care but believe they know better because.
We should NEVER cater to the latter 2 because they will not care. Every other fighting series community doesn't cater to these people so why should we?

As I stated before, this community needs a massive facelift, but we need to see one thing before we even try:
What are we aiming for? Legitimacy? More open community? Our game being accepted?
This is something I want people to think about before we move on because this is honestly a serious question.
I NEVER want something like the Costume Ban shenanigans happening again because that will not only damage our credibility of even liking the game for all it's worth, but also damage those who feel slighted because they have zero input because of something they cannot do YET.

Now let us figure out our path and let's walk it.

Rant over.

 

[VirtuaKazama]

Rant incoming:
My real major issue...is the people who try and speak for the community and fuck up bigtime. I HATE bringing this back up...but the costume ban is easily one of the biggest blackeyes we got. Now some will say we got exposure...except from the wrong sources. Kotaku is seen as the joke of the gaming community filled with people who either don't care or never gave a shit but EVERYWHERE ELSE the ban was seen as a joke. I literally could not go nowhere without seeing people on stream say how dumb it was, random forums saying how dumb it was, people who make videos say how dumb it was, streamers, bloggers, etc.
And this decision was made literally only accounting for offline player input without even trying to make it something to even VOTE for. Which if anything pissed off the players even moreso because it said fuck the input of ANYONE ELSE but certain people because fuck you...it may not have been directly but that's exactly how it was seen.

You have people whining about DLC even though you don't need to buy it, you have people whining about breast physics even though you can turn it OFF, you have people whining about the Triangle system despite the fact that the only way you can abuse it is if you was a Piece of Shit cheating AI, you have people whining about Destructible Clothing even though it was a shoutout to Senran Kagura and apparently will be the only cloths with the feature, etc.
There are certain types of people we want:
-Those that want to play the game but is on the fence.
-Those that are interested in it.

And there are those we shouldn't give 2 shits about:
-Those that want our games to be like Tekken, SF, etc.
-Those that never cared about the game at all, will never care but believe they know better because.
We should NEVER cater to the latter 2 because they will not care. Every other fighting series community doesn't cater to these people so why should we?

As I stated before, this community needs a massive facelift, but we need to see one thing before we even try:
What are we aiming for? Legitimacy? More open community? Our game being accepted?
This is something I want people to think about before we move on because this is honestly a serious question.
I NEVER want something like the Costume Ban shenanigans happening again because that will not only damage our credibility of even liking the game for all it's worth, but also damage those who feel slighted because they have zero input because of something they cannot do YET.

Now let us figure out our path and let's walk it.

Rant over.

It's simple guys: Keep your focus on what's ahead. The community is distracted by too much bullshit and hate from each other, as well as other communities that has zero-idea about our community. We are at a point where we let drama cloud our way of getting better.

We aren't Tekken. We aren't SF. We aren't MK. And we damn sure aren't Mahvel. We are the DOA Community.

We have an objective, and right now we are fucking it up because of what we are doing right now.

 

[Rikuto]

This is what I've been doing as best as I can since I cannot contribute to going to offline tournies or write up strats and guides.

I'll try my damnest to explain how I play characters and how the game works. My brother is also a fan of DOA but to the same extent as I am and he tries to atleast be good at it to mean something. My friends are also interested in it...but MKX, SF5, T7...and trying to keep their game up at UMVC3...yeah, it's going to be pretty hard actually getting them to buy the game and get more newcomers.

And whenever I'm on stream chat, I do my best to combat trolls and tell them what's up and funny enough, I have plenty of people who do the exact same thing...

Rant incoming:
My real major issue...is the people who try and speak for the community and fuck up bigtime. I HATE bringing this back up...but the costume ban is easily one of the biggest blackeyes we got. Now some will say we got exposure...except from the wrong sources. Kotaku is seen as the joke of the gaming community filled with people who either don't care or never gave a shit but EVERYWHERE ELSE the ban was seen as a joke. I literally could not go nowhere without seeing people on stream say how dumb it was, random forums saying how dumb it was, people who make videos say how dumb it was, streamers, bloggers, etc.
And this decision was made literally only accounting for offline player input without even trying to make it something to even VOTE for. Which if anything pissed off the players even moreso because it said fuck the input of ANYONE ELSE but certain people because fuck you...it may not have been directly but that's exactly how it was seen.

You have people whining about DLC even though you don't need to buy it, you have people whining about breast physics even though you can turn it OFF, you have people whining about the Triangle system despite the fact that the only way you can abuse it is if you was a Piece of Shit cheating AI, you have people whining about Destructible Clothing even though it was a shoutout to Senran Kagura and apparently will be the only cloths with the feature, etc.
There are certain types of people we want:
-Those that want to play the game but is on the fence.
-Those that are interested in it.

And there are those we shouldn't give 2 shits about:
-Those that want our games to be like Tekken, SF, etc.
-Those that never cared about the game at all, will never care but believe they know better because.
We should NEVER cater to the latter 2 because they will not care. Every other fighting series community doesn't cater to these people so why should we?

As I stated before, this community needs a massive facelift, but we need to see one thing before we even try:
What are we aiming for? Legitimacy? More open community? Our game being accepted?
This is something I want people to think about before we move on because this is honestly a serious question.
I NEVER want something like the Costume Ban shenanigans happening again because that will not only damage our credibility of even liking the game for all it's worth, but also damage those who feel slighted because they have zero input because of something they cannot do YET.

Now let us figure out our path and let's walk it.

Rant over.

There was a vote, in a sense. It was among a bunch of players, organizers, and industry elements who were present at a certain offline event. It is well known that people get together to discuss these things during every event.

People who don't make it out to those events don't, and shouldn't, get a say in anything. Working as intended imo.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

There was a vote, in a sense. It was among a bunch of players, organizers, and industry elements who were present at a certain offline event. It is well known that people get together to discuss these things during every event.

People who don't make it out to those events don't, and shouldn't, get a say in anything. Working as intended imo.

And that's a shitty way for it to be done and yet pretend you are acting as a/for the community...

 

[Rikuto]

And that's a shitty way for it to be done and yet pretend you are acting as a/for the community...

I'm not pretending I'm speaking for anybody. I wasn't even there. I just happen to agree with it.

But a lot of people were there, and they all came together and decided to try it out. It wasn't even a hard ban, it was a soft ban. If you really want to go against it, you're allowed to. You'll just get a frowny face from the TO.

Now with that out of the way, why exactly do you believe a bunch of people online who don't travel to anything should be able to impose their will on the ones who do? Cause it kinda sounds like thats what you're asking for.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

I'm not pretending I'm acting for anybody. I wasn't even there. I just happen to agree with it.

But a lot of people were there, and they all came together and decided to try it out. It wasn't even a hard ban, it was a soft ban. If you really want to go against it, you're allowed to. You'll just get a frowny face from the TO.

Now with that out of the way, why exactly do you believe a bunch of people online who don't travel to anything should be able to impose their will on the ones who do? Cause it kinda sounds like thats what you're asking for.

Alright I'll get your last question out of your way by saying these 3 things:
Facebook.
Twitter.
This forum.
Was ANY of these places not even remotely close to necessary on actually getting the overall community to matter? You say you want the community to matter but then you say that the community who don't travel will somehow impose their will...despite the fact that they could be competitors tomorrow?
You know, I'm reminded of how Smogon bans things from Pokemon. There's no way they have offline sessions specifically for that, no they actually ask around in their forums, put up alot of pros and cons and let them decide whether it should be banned or not by poll.
You are virtually asking the wrong question, the people who may not show up today can easily show up tomorrow, so why act like they should not be part of the equation at all? The question you should actually ask is why should only offline people matter when you are trying to cater to the community at large?

 

[Rikuto]

You don't compromise the needs of your existing base for the demands of your non-existent one. We also have to consider the people who were going to tournaments and stopped simply due to the games image gradually degrading.

I doubt anyone going to those tournaments, past or present, gives a damn what the horny scrubs on gamefaqs want to see on stream.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

You don't compromise the needs of your existing base for the demands of your non-existent one. We also have to consider the people who were going to tournaments and stopped simply due to the games image gradually degrading.

I doubt anyone going to those tournaments, past or present, gives a damn what the horny scrubs on gamefaqs want to see on stream.

How is it compromising at all to actually pool it as a community rather than just a few people that's there? You can't act for unity for community when you toss around the fact that only a few people made a decision for everyone else.

Okay how about next time if the Tekken community goes and tries and ban Lucky Chloe NOT EVEN ON AN ACTUAL BASIS AND ONLY BY THOSE THAT DON'T LIKE HER, let's see the shitstorm that comes from that

 

[Jyakotu]

To be honest, if the MK community can embrace its gore, then the DOA community shouldn't have a problem embracing the sexiness of the series. It's a Japanese based fighter, so of course there is going to be fan service. Hell, the reason for breast physics in DOA in the first place came from SNK's Mai and the reason for stage transitions came from MK. To be honest, why do we feel that the girls being sexy and dressed provocatively should make us ashamed to play the game? Like I said, I embrace all aspects of DOA and the main reason I love DOA is for the fighting system, the Danger Zones, and the costumes. When I'm fighting, I'm sure as hell not concerned about how big or bouncy the breasts are during the fights, because I'm too busy trying to win. And who's to say that the people who are watching DOA don't like the sex appeal and the action at the same time? It's the reason why there are fighting game female icons like Cammy, Ivy, Mai from KOF, and much more. Itagaki was unapologetic about DOA's sex appeal, but now he's trying to act as though he wasn't a driving force behind the reason why the game includes bikinis and sexually suggestive costumes (ahem, the Xtreme series anyone).

All this post is saying is that we shouldn't be ashamed of any aspect of DOA and should embrace all of it. Of course we know it's a fighting game first and people who play it know it's a fighting game. I don't see people going on stream and going to Private Paradise videos nor do I see them going into spectator mode to just snap pictures of the women and their panties. And it's funny how DOA is rated M for Mature just because of the sex appeal, despite the game having hardly any cursing or gore.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

It's not embracing the sex appeal, lol. It's about the players of the community actually supporting the game.

You have sex appeal in every game, the more you talk about "accepting sex appeal in DOA" means you're only thinking about what everyone else tries to make you feel insecure about. And that aspect is not the point, and hasn't been for awhile. It's a cliche statement said by those that don't know the game.

The game needs it's players to play and represent the game so that it gets a better presence wherever it's going to be at.

Get out there, play the game, make it presentable, make it hype.

That is the bottomline.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

It's not embracing the sex appeal, lol. It's about the players of the community actually supporting the game.

You have sex appeal in every game, the more you talk about "accepting sex appeal in DOA" means you're only thinking about what everyone else tries to make you feel insecure about. And that aspect is not the point, and hasn't been for awhile. It's a cliche statement said by those that don't know the game.

The game needs it's players to play and represent the game so that it gets a better presence wherever it's going to be at.

Get out there, play the game, make it presentable, make it hype.

That is the bottomline.

Pretty much my main point I was making at the start.
I never meant anything about embracing the sex appeal, I meant it in the fashion of not ignoring your overall community and listen to a certain few.

We gotta do plenty to get people to care for the game and the sex appeal is not any of it since again every game ever has sex appeal. Randomly aiming for bans that will literally do nothing but actually destroy the rep of the game NOT because of banning the sex appeal but believing that it's a PROBLEM is just ridiculous.

In the end, I was actually more offended that my opinion didn't matter at that discussion than anything about the sex appeal being censored in any form(And I hate censorship with a passion)

 

[iHajinShinobi]

My last post was in response to that Jyakotu person. Since sex appeal isn't the issue, it just seems like it because people in DOA make it so.

When I'm at events, that's not the concern of other people, it only is if they see that our own players let it bother them.

 

[Rikuto]

How is it compromising at all to actually pool it as a community rather than just a few people that's there? You can't act for unity for community when you toss around the fact that only a few people made a decision for everyone else.

Okay how about next time if the Tekken community goes and tries and ban Lucky Chloe NOT EVEN ON AN ACTUAL BASIS AND ONLY BY THOSE THAT DON'T LIKE HER, let's see the shitstorm that comes from that

Don't attend tournaments = don't make the rules. That is not going to change, because the alternative is unfair to people who actually attend. That, and online players are typically high in number and incredibly fucking stupid in opinion. No one is going to allow those dumbshits to rock any vote that matters.

I don't have to claim to speak for any community on that one. You can sit here and bare witness to the fact that absolutely nothing is going to change no matter how hard you argue for it. It's a bad idea that no one will ever accept. Eventually you will come to peace with this.

And eventually you may even come to find it silly you are arguing this passionately against what was a soft ban. Which is just a glorified way of the TO asking you nicely not to do something, with no consequences if you reject his request.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Don't attend tournaments = don't make the rules. That is not going to change, because the alternative is unfair to people who actually attend. That, and online players are typically high in number and incredibly fucking stupid in opinion. No one is going to allow those dumbshits to rock any vote that matters.

I don't have to claim to speak for any community on that one. You can sit here and bare witness to the fact that absolutely nothing is going to change no matter how hard you argue for it. It's a bad idea that no one will ever accept. Eventually you will come to peace with this.

And eventually you may even come to find it silly you are arguing this passionately against what was a soft ban. Which is just a glorified way of the TO asking you nicely not to do something, with no consequences if you reject his request.

And I will still find it extremely dumb and an easy way to continue on creating a rift between the online and offline community. You want people to actually try and head to offline tournies? You don't act like you can control whatever happens because people don't show up, you try and find ways to make it easier for people to show up. Randomly acting as if they have no power and then hide it behind "Come to this tourney and then you can be a REAL member"...just does not work.

This is a brand new time for anyone in the FGC to keep in touch and matter. And saying that because people still haven't shown up in huge droves thus their input means nothing is absolutely ridiculous and appalling. You can't have your cake and eat it too but I'm getting tired of this argument because it plain isn't going anywhere.

 

[CyberEvil]

End it. This discussion is not happening again.

 

[wm4]

You don't need to be the Koei-Tecmo's dogs to make DOA more positive. In the exactly opposite, if we are being fake and keeping things to ourselves, but not openly expressing our thoughts, do we need Koei Tecmo/Team Ninja/Tom Lee/whoever to have a psychic ability to read our mind, so they will know what direction they should go, without causing miscommunications between the developers and the players? This is called communications. We are not paid to play, we are consumers who talk truths and as such, it's the jobs of the developers to get embarrassed, I'll even call it the their HONOR. If we just talk and protect them like the Tekken fans do, being positive to even Tekken's biggest mistakes, attacking the fans who speak the truth, and always expecting Tekken to be improved "in the future." Remember that time is money, and this is the cause that Tekken has no future, no more.

How the hell do you think they are going better or worse if we don't *communicate*?

You should know that the MK community are treating Nether Realm worse than we do by 1000 times, they simply bash them for whatever small things happened. OTOH we are already too nice and too polite to TN, they should feel more honourable with us.

Things like boobs and fan services don't ruin the brand, it's the fake attitudes that ruin it. We will never go mainstream if the community aren't being true.

 

[CyberEvil]

The above post has been edited and a warning issued. Don't personally insult another member again.