Strongest Strategy Thread in the World: Leon Strategy/ Best moves

[XZero264]

Okay. A while back I was told a setup with Bass involving slip stuns so I got to wondering if the same could be applied to Leon. With the setup you can get a guaranteed 3K into 214P into air throw.

On Counter in Water or on the End of the Earth stage (and in LR looks like some spots of Crimson) use 1K. The opponent is in a slip stun state and is considered crouching.
In short, on a wet surface Counter 1K - 3K - 214P - Air throw.You may have to dash forward to get the air throw off, they launch pretty far away.

On Counter it's 101 damage, 122 on Hi Counter.

Nothing from breakables so the normal run up 3K routine from there.

Edit: Just so you know this also applies to Bayman.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

Don't know if anyone already knew this but Leon has a damn good semi-unholdable and unsteppable setup off 33p. i say its semi unholdable because the requirement to hold it is pretty high since the opponent has to fastest stagger escape into a just frame mid p high counter hold which has to be done in 1frame. no human will be able to do this consistently if at all in an actual fight so im just gonna go ahead and list it as unholdable. if by the chance an opponent can consistently stagger escape it can be blocked but the good news is the move is Leon's 46p which GBs ranging from +2 to +5 and the setup leaves Leon at range for 46p to consistently be at +4 when blocked after fastest stagger.

The setup is

, ,

33p gives a sds that guarantees his 3k sds, the distance 3k leaves opponents in open space only allows 46p to connect which as i mentioned can't be sidestepped or mashed out of at all and can only be held or blocked if the opponent fastest staggers from the 3k sds. if the opponent gets hit by 46p and doesn't tech Leon can run up and get a ground throw and if they do tech he is at around +7 and can maintain pressure.

so to sum it up the only way to stop it is fastest stagger into just frame high counter hold, any other option leaves Leon in a favorable position

 

[DestructionBomb]

Interesting. Will likely hit the lab and try it out.

 

[SweetSauceBoss]

Not sure if someone already knew this but a friend found an unholdable 33P set-up. You would do 4PK then PPK and if they tech roll to the side, 33P is unholdable. If they tech backwards I think you're at +22 or something like that. May be way off with that number but yeah lol.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Not sure if someone already knew this but a friend found an unholdable 33P set-up. You would do 4PK then PPK and if they tech roll to the side, 33P is unholdable. If they tech backwards I think you're at +22 or something like that. May be way off with that number but yeah lol.

Does that vary between different characters? Weight class may have some effect.

 

[SweetSauceBoss]

Does that vary between different characters? Weight class may have some effect.

Yeah I forgot to edit the post and say it was only tested on Kasumi and Hayate. Not sure if it work on heavyweights :/.

 

[SweetSauceBoss]

So on heavyweights you would do 4PK then 9K (or even 3PK) and if they tech to the side 33P is unholdable. Only thing is the 33P pushes them outta range for the tasty 33P 7P set up, same with the lightweight etc. combo.

Another unholdable- 6P+K fully charged nets you +27 advantage when it lands and they tech and the only move that reaches that far is his uncharged PL (214P+K). It's an open space unholdable, as if they tech to the other side the computer manages to hold me. Anyone else want to test this out? You get +27 on all weightclasses.

 

[XZero264]

Do you mean Grenade Arm after the 4PK? Last I recalled it was unblockable fully charged.

Edit: I think I get what you mean.
Double Edit: Yeah. I get what you mean.

Also, that 33P 3K 46P has the nice feature of dealing the raw 40 Damage from 46P on top of the 41 if they SE at just the right speed and try to hold. Basically you get 61- 81 damage for an easy combo on NH.


A tip with Leon's P+K fully charged. If your opponent holds at any point after contact you are guaranteed at least 6H+P if you mess up the hit throw timing. An immediate hold gets you +9, if they hold 2 frames laster than fastest then 4H+P is guaranteed.

 

[XZero264]

I FOUND A BACK TURNED COMBO!!!

7P 2K delay 3K P+K.
On a back turned opponent they will be put into limbo, trip, sds, then Critical Burst. The only thing that can be avoided is the burst and only on fastest SE.
The delay between the 2K and 3K is the most crucial aspect of the combo. Combo too soon and the sds turns into a counter 3K on a standing opponent. To late and you won't get it. You have a decent amount of time to get the 3K in properly.

Oh my goodness you will almost never get to use it but this is a very exciting find on top of being able to do what you want if you get a 7P on a BT opponent. Now if only Leon could force someone to go back turned (if only he got the DOA4 8K like Fork suggested).

Maybe the Gen Fu infinite trick to get it started?




My original post was gonna be about using 9K to beat out wakeup kicks. Doable but tricky.

 

[SweetSauceBoss]

Found two more unholdables.

(CH or bound juggle) , and if they tech roll to the side, is unholdable.

Launch, and if they tech to the either side, is unholdable.

Not sure on the +frames when they tech backwards :/. Still looking for more tech.

Edit: ANOTHER unholdable.

Launch, , they tech to the side and (no charge) is unholdable.
Yay Guard Breaks. Though they can duck :/ but still hehe.

I feel like I should compile all of my information/findings at once and then post lol.

 

[SweetSauceBoss]

When you break the stun threshold with these you can follow up with the following force techs. I believe these are guaranteed if they don't tech up. +Number is the frame advantage, as mentioned in a previous post.

1.
- (+7)
- (+15)

2.
- (+10)

3.
-:[[K]]: (+20)

Let me know what y'all think, still looking for more set-ups and what not.

 

[XZero264]

After playing some matches last night with Gill Hustle and Slothfacts my suspicions of 7P being a great whiff/block punishment against Ayane (it's a good whiff punishment in general) were confirmed. I'll have to look at what the command is for one kick in particular but because she is left BT every other strike in just about all her strings if you punish a whiff with 7P and happen to get her into the BT limbo you can get off that combo I posted about before (I even got to use it multiple times).

When Katsu Hayami posts the recording I'll redirect to it somehow.

Edit: Reminds me. We need to hound TN about Leon's Power Launcher glitch. I got it to happen offline and in a match that Katsu recorded, I think I got the chance to do a PL again but attempted to do it in a way that avoids the bug.

 

[Jefffcore]

The frames should be the same regardless of the way they tech.

Any combo ended with ppk, 66ppk, or pp4p gives the same flop regardless of weight. Ppk, and 66ppk are the same, if they tech sideways anything 16i is unholdable (2p, 66p, and 4p). Pp4p is anything that's 26i I think (the kick from pk). 214p+k works because it hits in the second active frame.'

Personally, I always end combos with ppk, or 66ppk instead of the air throw, unless there's a pillar, or furniture. Even if you don't get an unholdable, it's just easier to keep pressure, and in most cases you're only sacrificing around 10 damage, which you can easily make up for with the right read.

Maxing out the threshold is fun, but you sacrifice a good chunk of damage.

That 66k works because it's 21 frames, so you can do 2h+k aswell. It's safer... Doesn't reach if they stay on the ground though

66k, 124p, 2h+k.
66k, 9p, 4p+k is fun too. Less guessing.

 

[XZero264]

Alright, just got @DestructionBomb to confirm that on Danger Zone a launch into 8PPP can be air thrown. Looks like you have to buffer in a dash before you 8PPP and again to get the air throw.

Also, Leon get's an air throw off regular knock downs on DZ.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Sounds orgasmic.

 

[SweetSauceBoss]

Been a while xD. See people teching up after 8K stun? Happen to have a powerblow ready? Well then you're in luck! Cause that shits unholdable xD.

 

[XZero264]

Found some BT tech that is just absolutely lovely.

7P, 1P, 3K into Forks Unholdable 46P (except this time it actually is Unholdable and you get +4 on Block) and must be held out of after the 1P (cannot SE).

And one that works on all weight classes is 7P, 1P, 9K, Air throw (substitute 9K with 214P for SH). Can't be SE'd but can he held after the 1P.
All super heavies but Rachel can avoid the 9K on Fastest SE (God knows why)214P into air throw for only 2 points less damage (SH in general you should be going for 214P for air throw). You may need to buffer in a dash after the 214P depending on distance and who you use it on. I noticed at close range you have to buffer one in on Raidou. Otherwise this cannot be SE'd and for just about every other weight class you get a back hit on the 9K so extra height gives you more time to run in (as with all 9K launches you still can't combo afterwards).

 

[XZero264]

Got a find for PK launcher.

On Alpha to Lightweights at threshold 1 you can PK and followup with 3PP.
For Medium through Super Heavies PK at threshold 3 and you can get 3PP but it extremely difficult to pull off on Super Heavies.
Most effective against invisible walls like the top stairs in Lorelai for (Super Heavies), can be made easier by going downhill and in open spaces for lighter characters.

An example of a setup is 7P > 66P > 3P > PK > 3PP. The trick is to be close enough to your opponent when you land PK to net the 3PP.

 

[XZero264]

Forgot to mention that in Hotzone you can air throw your opponent off of the Helicopter Power Blow interaction.
To get the timing down head to training and turn on frame info and PB into the heli. Once the Info appears on the screen again you can start running forward and get it.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Forgot to mention that in Hotzone you can air throw your opponent off of the Helicopter Power Blow interaction.
To get the timing down head to training and turn on frame info and PB into the heli. Once the Info appears on the screen again you can start running forward and get it.

That's pretty sweet. Did you check if you have enough time to go for the 4T air throw to chain the helicopter dangerzone right into the tank one? Or do you just have to dash into the normal T air throw?