The Carrera

[Tones]

This is getting quite a bit of talk now, let's get it in focus.

First off Carrera is less of a stance and more of a short cut to get into running. All the follow up moves are her while running moves. It makes recovery faster and can be cancel by pressing any direction that's not 6 or by side stepping after the she plants her first step. This includes back dashing, which mean you can faint running in with it.

On block 66k6 (or ppk6) gives +2 on block, so if you cancel it (I'm assuming it would take 1 frame) you get +1 on the next attack.

66k6, while running p+k beats out kasumi's jab from block.

How are people using this online?

 

[ailingeternity]

So far just for it's OH and juggling from , I will usually switch up the OH with WR but you have to space them both correctly. is a great way to go into carrera but I feel that the only tool worth using after it is the OH, it deals good damage and tracks but even that has it's flaws since it's slow, nothing else during carrera is scary enough to keep the momentum going imo.

 

[Batcommander]

Honestly, at this point i'm not really using it If i do use it, i usually just cancel into sidestep.

 

[Tones]

While running P is a beast. It has a nasty stun to it, tracks, has a lot of range, and the recovery is faster than her other attacks.

 

[ailingeternity]

I'm neither here or there with WR , I'm testing it out and I don't feel it has good range at all, it's a high and -8 on block. If it was faster (15 frames maybe?) it would be a very useful tool. What's even wierder is that its +13 on hit yet none of her 12 framers connect for a combo. If it does connect on NH or CH, go into BT and you can use BT which becomes unholdable but still blockable and since it's only -3 it's safe, you can use also but that can be crushed, eliminating further pressure.

 

[Prince Adon]

I'm just now seeing this thread. Everyone is missing the greatness that is Carrera. Seriously I never see anyone use it online and don't realize the mix up, mind screwing you can do with it. 66K being a guard crush open you for much. If your opponent tries to attack P is usually a quick stun attack. You can even go into 66K again, and hope for another guard crush leaving your opponent not knowing what to expect next. You can mix in H+K to go low, or a throw which also acts as an OH. You people need to learn how to corporate this in your fights. Many ways to go into it. After 4H+K, after 66K(PPK), after 7K, or 7P. It's a mix up madness. It's definitely good for your spacing game as well. You can also rush in and cancel it completely faking your opponent out.

 

[Konton]

It only works now because it's new and people don't know how to react yet.

Everything can be sidestepped except for the OH. Any solid high-mid crush will not only evade running p, running k, and running p+k, but the latter two will leave you absolutely helpless right next to them and her only low from the run comes out painfully slow, despite it's decent poking range.

 

[Tones]

It only works now because it's new and people don't know how to react yet.

Everything can be sidestepped except for the OH. Any solid high-mid crush will not only evade running p, running k, and running p+k, but the latter two will leave you absolutely helpless right next to them and her only low from the run comes out painfully slow, despite it's decent poking range.

The P tracks but is a high (some characters can crush it when a sidestep attack). You have other options since you can do any other regular attacks as well.

 

[Doa_Eater]

You should all listen to Return iof the Shadow, i second Lisa with a pretty basic style like anyone else, 1pp here, 1pk there an offensive hold hoping, but i've never seen a Lisa play like that, running shop, running drop kick drop kick again, safety, guarantee combos, it was sick.

And what epic matches we played, close to 30 maybe, Tina vs Lisa is probably the most enjoyable match up for me to watch, 3 wins to me, 3 wins Shadow, i get great he gets great, massive damage combo answered with a massive damage combo in return, hits deja vu i hit him with mdt, it was glorious. IT SHOULD BE ON YOUTUBE!!!

Oh and they were in in their matching red wrestling outfits.

 

[MasterHavik]

I need to play more Lisa.

 

[Prince Adon]

It only works now because it's new and people don't know how to react yet.

Everything can be sidestepped except for the OH. Any solid high-mid crush will not only evade running p, running k, and running p+k, but the latter two will leave you absolutely helpless right next to them and her only low from the run comes out painfully slow, despite it's decent poking range.

That's what the mix game is for. Carrera is for skilled players, not for noobs. People will SS you if you're making it obvious. You don't even have to use the normal Carrera attack. You can always cancel and use any other move. Just because certain moves can be side step doesn't make it easy for your opponent unless you do.

 

[Tones]

Spamming 4k+f6 is mad.

 

[ailingeternity]

Konton is right, but carrera works differently depending on how it's applied. If the moves are just thrown out, yes it's extremely easy to counteract them with crushes and fast mids, but that's absolutely how you should not be using it. Carrera should be used after a move that transitions into it scores a hit, since you have advantage to work with. Keep in mind all of Lisa's running moves aside from are unsafe another reason not to throw said moves out.

is the way forward for Carrera mixups, it's fast, safe, has a great hitbox and dishes out a great stun that Carrera is good for dashing in with to carry on the stun game. has great oki potential with Carrera, it baits out low wake-up kicks due to Lisa being in close range, from which Lisa can start a jump over () and you know the rest.

imo is the worst move you can use to go into Carrera, it creates too much space. On hit the only thing that combos into it is WR and you have to get the run just right which leaves bigger risk again for punishment, OH will stop any retaliation but again it can be crushed or beaten by fast mids. It only provides minor advantage, meaning all subsequent moves can be blocked easily, on hit that's a very bad thing since almost all of Lisa's running moves are very unsafe. If you want to use use it to create space from mid range and use the feint, on block the opponent will have much more control if they have prior knowledge of Lisa even though she's applying pressure.

 

[Prince Adon]

Point is it's a method you should apply to your mix up game. Also you're forgetting you can cancel out the run completely and do any of her normal attacks. You'll be surprised how well that'll work. You can even just cancel out into 1P, 6K, or some other useful stuff that plays with your opponent. If you plan on just using her attacks from the run then yes. You're using it wrong.

 

[Batcommander]

Point is it's a method you should apply to your mix up game. Also you're forgetting you can cancel out the run completely and do any of her normal attacks. You'll be surprised how well that'll work. You can even just cancel out into 1P, 6K, or some other useful stuff that plays with your opponent. If you plan on just using her attacks from the run then yes. You're using it wrong.

Hrm, i dunno Return. . .

Thing is, i fight people that know how to fight Lisa--there's no way i ever land 66K because it's too damn slow. I get held each time, or worse, sidestepped. This move completely blows if it's sidestepped.

Also, i'm not sure yet, but can't the opponent slow escape out of the stun from 66k too as well? That would also make it less effective.
edit: yes, they sure the hell can SE it. Seriously, why the fuck do we have SEs in this game

 

[Prince Adon]

Hrm, i dunno Return. . .

Thing is, i fight people that know how to fight Lisa--there's no way i ever land 66K because it's too damn slow. I get held each time, or worse, sidestepped. This move completely blows if it's sidestepped.

Also, i'm not sure yet, but can't the opponent slow escape out of the stun from 66k too as well? That would also make it less effective.

Well when I say 66K I don't expect you to actually perform the move with 66K. I mean from her Carrera. Even then I wouldn't over use it. Also, I like using it when your opponent is cornered near a wall making it harder to SS.

 

[Tones]

It's mad to for pressure and after you hit them through an obstacles. 66k definately has it's uses. Get it off frame advantage, after they block or recover from a stun.

 

[ailingeternity]

Point is it's a method you should apply to your mix up game. Also you're forgetting you can cancel out the run completely and do any of her normal attacks. You'll be surprised how well that'll work. You can even just cancel out into 1P, 6K, or some other useful stuff that plays with your opponent. If you plan on just using her attacks from the run then yes. You're using it wrong.

Maybe I am, I'd like to see if it's as useful as you make it out to be, but until then I still have an issue with the space it creates, even if I feint there's too much distance to use any of her moves outside Carrera for pressure.

Also, I like using it when your opponent is cornered near a wall making it harder to SS.

Now that could be useful since the whole space issue is nullified immediately. Will test that later.

 

[Prince Adon]

I mean Lisa isn't a easy character to win with. Especially when you're playing someone who knows what she is capable of. Learning her, and trying to better your game you're going to get your butt kicked from time to time. Eventually you'll understand what she is capable of. You will eventually get how to corporate her moves into her mix up game. So no matter what she is going to have her disadvantages, you just going to have to learn to close that gap as much as possible, and leaving out useful tools just because they may be hard to master is not a good way to go.

 

[Konton]

Dribbling out platitudes doesn't help you explain your case.

Carrera when used at a distance far away enough to cancel or sidestep at all is typically wasted energy when you could be focusing on spacing, landing counter-hits with 1p, whiff punishing with 236p, etc.