Tougeki Combo Exhibition!

[CyberEvil]

Seems like quite a bit of cleaning needs to happen here.

Thankfully, this site isn't complete shit and the community seems to have re-tasked themselves to the relevant discussion on their own. Kudos, guys. I'm absolutely a fan of what I'm seeing in these 'balance test' vids, as I've posted before, and it'd be really nice if the one or two folks who consistently stuck their noses into the air and started shit would recognize what everyone else is doing. Maybe follow suit?

 

[MrMoon360]

Experiencing what about what? Akira's execution has been toned down. . .has nothing to do with DoA. Do you even understand what I was talking about?

You weren't talking about DOA Akira? Oh.

 

[Master_Thespian]

i swear that everytime i watch this combo video, i fall more in love with this game. i really am hoping his game atracts fighting game lovers as well as those COD fans. I really can't wait for this game!

On a side note, does anyone know if akira has his unblockable string? that may be where his damage lies. Besides that, akira is a VERY good pressure character, so they may have changed his playstyle from Nightmare-ish to a more speedy version.
Trust me, if that was 100% FS Akira, you guys would be complaining.

Close counterhit bodycheck will make up for his lack of combo prowess. And ruin many a day.

 

[Rikuto]

You're right, of course, but far too many threads are derailed in stupid arguments.

I apologize to Mr. Wah. The site is nice, too many people want to shit it up.

Hope DoA5 is all you guys want it to be.

If DOA 5 does end up being a good game, one can only hope that it's distracting enough that people can take their frustrations out on the game itself and not the message boards. I think this is honestly the real underlying issue with people.

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

I was very pleased that Leifang's mid-kick counter and her wall throw aren't completely worthless anymore. Here's hoping that all that shit was actually guaranteed and not some ass showing off combos from Doa2/3.

 

[Raansu]

I was very pleased that Leifang's mid-kick counter and her wall throw aren't completely worthless anymore. Here's hoping that all that shit was actually guaranteed and not some ass showing off combos from Doa2/3.

BT's are guaranteed in DoA5.

 

[Lobo]

BT's are guaranteed in DoA5.

Is that only off hi-counter hit/throw for the BT combos. Like if you got hit by Ayane's 4F+P on hi-counter in DOA2 guarenteed a free 4P (I think that's what I remember anyways). I saw everything in the combo vid was set to hi-counter hit probably to show off max damage, but does anyone know what added qualities to 'guarenteedness' a hi-counter has to a hit or throw.

Also, was the fact that Busa was crouching add anything special to Kasumi's combo @:35. Like added launch height or something.

 

[Chris Harris]

In the Alpha build Ayane could back throw and 4p still so I will go with you probably still can in these versions as well.

 

[Ghost Cobra]

I think Tina's jiggle dance stance is after she idles a bit or just gets close like some SC characters stance change, although I don't remember if DOA had that before or not.

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

Is that only off hi-counter hit/throw for the BT combos. Like if you got hit by Ayane's 4F+P on hi-counter in DOA2 guarenteed a free 4P (I think that's what I remember anyways). I saw everything in the combo vid was set to hi-counter hit probably to show off max damage, but does anyone know what added qualities to 'guarenteedness' a hi-counter has to a hit or throw.

Also, was the fact that Busa was crouching add anything special to Kasumi's combo @:35. Like added launch height or something.

Extra launch height.

As far as the BT combos, I doubt it has anything to do with counter throws. It's probably like Doa2/3. Get a grab, get a combo.

 

[Raansu]

Is that only off hi-counter hit/throw for the BT combos. Like if you got hit by Ayane's 4F+P on hi-counter in DOA2 guarenteed a free 4P (I think that's what I remember anyways). I saw everything in the combo vid was set to hi-counter hit probably to show off max damage, but does anyone know what added qualities to 'guarenteedness' a hi-counter has to a hit or throw.

Also, was the fact that Busa was crouching add anything special to Kasumi's combo @:35. Like added launch height or something.

He had it set to hi counter hit so everyone would launch at max height. Ayane's 4f+p in DoA2/3 didn't need a hi-counter throw to get a free 4p. The throw always guaranteed 4p. What you're thinking of is how it worked in DoA4 for Ayane.

As far as we are aware BT combos in DoA5 are guaranteed regardless if its hi-counter throw or not and its the same with back staggers as well. I'm not sure if you can slow escape out of them like you can sit down stuns but according to simbori's tweets on twitter they have guaranteed setups.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I'll clean up this thread later (or hopefully AP can do it until then). Sorry, I was busy yesterday doing... something... at Otakon 2012. Fun stuff.

As for the few in the community who end up derailing threads with personal issues with one another: I just keep telling myself that it's really because everyone's anxious to just sit down and play the final game, just as Team NINJA is anxious to release it to us.

Honestly, once the game comes out I hope all the discussions turn out to dissecting the game that's in front of us instead of complaining about a game that is not. To make the game "tournament viable" it's really up to the community itself, and that's because there is one requirement and that's people to show up and support the game at offline events. Evo and other big tournaments will put the game in their line up if fans of the game - whatever game it is - actually attend. I suggest you read more on the stickied thread in the News Forum about it for those interested: Community matters [most]

 

[DrDogg]

Yeah man. I'm also glad Shimbori has a vision for his own game. Critical Bursts came from Team Ninja, not the fans.
When a surprisingly solid mechanic comes from someone we've had doubts in, it just makes you realize he's no idiot.
I can't wait to get my hands on the final build to learn the ins and outs of the new system.

To play devil's advocate, Critical Burst has now been toned down. It's safe to assume it will take more effort to reach a CB now. We need to examine the game to see exactly how much effort is now required, but if it's difficult to reach a CB before the 4th hit in a combo, CB no longer has an impact on the game, positive or negative.

At E3, you could easily CB on the 3rd hit and take a risk to CB on the second hit. That made CB dangerous and gave us a good way to avoid the counter/stun system.

Sitdown stuns.
Bayman and Leon's both add 16 to the threshold after a stun.
Hayabusa's Sitdown adds 13 to the threshold.
Hayate's adds 15.
(For those kind of curious about what the range of the numbers could be. Even though they are from the previous.)

So with limited testing I see they have a formula for it. The number added is the damage after the scaling. So maybe the scaling is being tweaked as well.

This was my take on it as well. I'm surprised DOAD has a stun counter though. I wonder if we'll see the same thing in DOA5.

Which sit-down stuns are you referring to? With Bayman, is that stun value for his CH 3K or NH P+K?

If we take your DOAD numbers and plug them into the E3 build of DOA5, they still don't add up unless you count the first stun. If Bayman's CH 3K only does 16, toward a former max of 36 to get CB, then without counting the first stun, his CB would need a stun value of at least 20. I can't imagine that's the case, so I'm assuming the first hit counts toward the stun value now.

On a side note, does anyone know if akira has his unblockable string? that may be where his damage lies. Besides that, akira is a VERY good pressure character, so they may have changed his playstyle from Nightmare-ish to a more speedy version.
Trust me, if that was 100% FS Akira, you guys would be complaining.

The unblockable string is in, but the damage as of E3 wasn't particularly significant. Still a threat of course.

Also, 100% FS Akira would be SS tier in the E3 build. Let's hope that isn't the case, or that the DOA characters get buffed to match him.

Close counterhit bodycheck will make up for his lack of combo prowess. And ruin many a day.

At E3, the bodycheck didn't inflict varied damage like it does in VF. It was a set value and not overly significant.

 

[qoodname]

It's safe to assume it will take more effort to reach a CB now.

Thats not even bad in my opinion. Of course it depends on how much more effort it takes but its highly rewarding so it should atleast take some effort. I mean a good player will find a way to achieve a CB where people with less knowledge of the game might struggle finding one. That actually sounds good to me cuz it becomes more of a tool for people who know what theyre doing. Please correct me if im missing something out.

 

[Raansu]

Thats not even bad in my opinion. Of course it depends on how much more effort it takes but its highly rewarding so it should atleast take some effort. I mean a good player will find a way to achieve a CB where people with less knowledge of the game might struggle finding one. That actually sounds good to me cuz it becomes more of a tool for people who know what theyre doing. Please correct me if im missing something out.

By the 5th hit you're going for a launcher anyways, that's what would make it pointless outside of just trying to get a free power blow if you are under 50%. It needs to stay in the 3 hit range to continue to be a dangerous tool.

 

[qoodname]

By the 5th hit you're going for a launcher anyways, that's what would make it pointless outside of just trying to get a free power blow if you are under 50%. It needs to stay in the 3 hit range to continue to be a dangerous tool.

True that but its more about the attacks themselves and not just how many hits you can land if im not mistaken. Didnt shimbori say something like you need less heavy hits for CB and more fast attacks?

 

[DrDogg]

True that but its more about the attacks themselves and not just how many hits you can land if im not mistaken. Didnt shimbori say something like you need less heavy hits for CB and more fast attacks?

That's why we need to take a closer look at it and really see how this change effects things.

Taking a look at the E3 build, Kasumi doesn't really have many sit-down stuns outside of 66KK. As awesome as her 66KK combo was in this video, it's super telegraphed. You're not going to hit that sit-down stun against anyone good.

If someone like Kasumi has difficulty hitting a CB on the 3rd attack in a combo, she'll be forced to play like DOA4, while characters like Bayman, who hit harder and presumably can CB with ease on the 3rd hit, get to play DOA5. That almost automatically makes Kasumi lower tier than Bayman in this theory fighter world.

 

[qoodname]

That's why we need to take a closer look at it and really see how this change effects things.

Taking a look at the E3 build, Kasumi doesn't really have many sit-down stuns outside of 66KK. As awesome as her 66KK combo was in this video, it's super telegraphed. You're not going to hit that sit-down stun against anyone good.

If someone like Kasumi has difficulty hitting a CB on the 3rd attack in a combo, she'll be forced to play like DOA4, while characters like Bayman, who hit harder and presumably can CB with ease on the 3rd hit, get to play DOA5. That almost automatically makes Kasumi lower tier than Bayman in this theory fighter world.

Well youre right with everything you said! I just dont want them to make CB too easy so every random can use it.

 

[MrMoon360]

By the 5th hit you're going for a launcher anyways, that's what would make it pointless outside of just trying to get a free power blow if you are under 50%. It needs to stay in the 3 hit range to continue to be a dangerous tool.

With low damage characters like Kasumi and Kokoro getting CB on the fourth hit after a sitdown, its safe to assume it all depends on damage done in-stun. That Jann Lee player played a little too long in critical for my tastes; light jabs and such. Critical Burst is a universal option. If you can win a match advantageously without it, so be it. But I'm sure that won't be an easy feat with all characters. I have a feeling it will just end up being more of a threat with high damaging characters. But combo mix-ups will factor in. And if CB gives a % increase of damage to hits afterward or if you yield more damage regardless, there's your risk/reward factor right?

With hold recovery the way it is now, AND the fact that you must hold specifically for mid-kicks vs mid-punches its even more risky for the defending player in-stun to hold; moreso than DOA3.1.

Edit to avoid double-post:

If someone like Kasumi has difficulty hitting a CB on the 3rd attack in a combo, she'll be forced to play like DOA4, while characters like Bayman, who hit harder and presumably can CB with ease on the 3rd hit, get to play DOA5. That almost automatically makes Kasumi lower tier than Bayman in this theory fighter world.

Can someone tell me what exactly that statement in bold means?
Anyone? I'm confused.

 

[Raansu]

It means she has to play the stun game of DoA4. If it takes her 4-5 hits to reach CB then she might as well not even bother with it.