Tutorial: Exploring Frame Data

It's no secret that the Dead or Alive 5 frame data display is inaccurate to actually comprehending the disadvantage of an attack and what attacks exactly can punish an attack.

Forwardownforward has put up a video tutorial showing many of the inaccuracies with the frame counter. The tutorial says an easy way to calculate this is to add 2 frames to the start up counter in the Move Details window. For example, in order to punish a -11 attack, you would need to do an attack that is no slower than 9 frames according to the Move Details display. That means that only Kasumi, Christie, and Eliot can punish a -11 attack with a guaranteed attack.

The video does not go over throw punishment, which differs in that you have to add 1 frame to the throw startup: A 4 frame throw actually will punish anything -5 frames or more.

Forwardownforward does not go into why these two frames are necessary, and I can understand that but here's the reason: (1) The game delays any string starting attack by 1 frame after it registers your input to verify and calculate what string you want to perform, and (2) The frame counter on the Move Details window does not count the first hit frame in its count, only the last startup frame. Adding the +2 to every move's startup just makes it simpler to calculate if an attack is punishable.


He also goes into detail about crouch blocking, that in order to go from Standing to Guard Crouching after having an attack blocked, you need to add one additional frame to the disadvantage. This does not need to be added when going from Crouching to Guard Standing. Lastly, he goes over turning around forwards from back stance being 5 frames using Ayane's 6P as an example.
 
I believe it's because when it's reading for strikes it's waiting to see if you meant P or P+K.

For throws, there's just the H+P so when it registers there being an H+P and says there can't be a string that starts with H+P.

I am just presuming though.
 
This makes a whole of sense. It's why lisa can't get her 16 frame knee off her +17 guard break. I knew you had to add a frame to throws, but i thought it was the same for attacks too.

So when we make reference to frame data, should we not say stuff like kasumi's 9 frame jab, and instead just reference it as it actually is, i11?
 
So when we make reference to frame data, should we not say stuff like kasumi's 9 frame jab, and instead just reference it as it actually is, i11?

We can use both "9 frame" and "i11" as long as impact prefix "i" is kept when needed. If we use only the second form it will ensue confusion forever unless the move display is patched.

"Move display" frame data is not inaccurate, it is just uses format we are not used to listing "initial" frames instead of "startup including first active" frames. Nowhere in game it is said that this is impact frames. And whoever tried to explore punish opportunities knew that there are those silly rules to it.
 
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