When will fighting games be challenging again?

[MasterHavik]

I'll write more later. but here is the short version: when will fighting games won't be so braindead and easy to get into. when will it push players to actually learn the game and not just hop on to what is cheap. I feel fighters have been dumb down since the arcade and 2D era of fighters.

 

[Chapstick]

Play TTT2? I've heard it's so tough to fully learn and takes such an enormous investment of time that it's put off veterans of the series from playing it. I very vaguely remember playing the first Tekken since it was so so long ago and I was really young, but I remember it being easier than what TTT2 is today.

If fighting games were inaccessible to everyone but the most hardcore players, which sounds like what you want to happen correct me if I'm wrong, the FGC would be much smaller and would put people off joining it. Easy to pick up games like DOA can be entry points and stepping stones to the tougher stuff.

 

[MasterHavik]

But it seems ever fighter is dumbing it down to a point to where it's kind of a joke.

 

[Dior]

When's Marvel?

 

[Chapstick]

But it seems ever fighter is dumbing it down to a point to where it's kind of a joke.

Give me an example?

 

[David Gregg]

I agree with Chapstick you have to be more specific Havik and what fighters have been "dumb down"?

 

[MasterHavik]

MVC3, Sf4, VF5FS(people tell me this one is the most easiest of all VF), SSBB, and that's all I got. Those are examples of games being dumb down. Stuff like SC and DOA were easy from the get go so they're fine. I hope examples are good enough.

 

[David Gregg]

I mean I guess the only answer I can give is that your definition of dumb down is what others would call "accessible" and what gaming companies in the industry aim for in order to bring in more players. And as DOA has proven, just b/c a game is accessible doesn't mean that there can't be high level play. But I do agree with Chapstick, if you want a challenging fighter play TTT2.

 

[MasterHavik]

I mean I guess the only answer I can give is that your definition of dumb down is what others would call "accessible" and what gaming companies in the industry aim for in order to bring in more players. And as DOA has proven, just b/c a game is accessible doesn't mean that there can't be high level play. But I do agree with Chapstick, if you want a challenging fighter play TTT2.

I have plans to play TTT2. I'm shocked he didn't bring up KOF13 either that game is hard as well. The thing is about these fighters being dumb down doesn't bring in more people presay you bring them in and most of them end up leaving looking for something else to play. Everything is so easy to a point it's a fight for a consumer's a attention. It's funny though since this business model has made fighting games more popular again. Someone tells fighters need new ideas. People wanna make their own characters in the fighting games and such. Do you think that would be a good idea?

 

[Dior]

If you put a DoA, UMvC3, SSFIV [...] player to play chess, the game will look like shit.

It's a simple game, and it's good, everyone know.

You care too much about people, they are stupid, everything will look stupid in their hands.

TTT2? brace yourself, Capoeira spam everywhere.

 

[MasterHavik]

If you put a DoA, UMvC3, SSFIV [...] player to play chess, the game will look like shit.

It's a simple game, and it's good, everyone know.

You care too much about people, they are stupid, everything will look stupid in their hands.

TTT2? brace yourself, Capoeira spam everywhere.

You may be right dude.

 

[Chapstick]

I'm shocked he didn't bring up KOF13 either that game is hard as well.

I do have it but only because it was free for PS+ and I didn't spend much time with it other than messing around with the colors on characters to be honest xD 2D fighters are not my forte.

 

[David Gregg]

People wanna make their own characters in the fighting games and such. Do you think that would be a good idea?

I'm going to say yes but only for offline and non-competitive uses though. TTT2 sort of does this with Combot and I know SC has had the character creator for a while now. It would become too messy online though (unless you're referring strictly appearance not move list).

If they created a character with a predetermined move set (i.e. all the counters, throws, hits, etc...) but allowed you to determine the gender, appearance, clothes, and all that then I think it'd be fine to be able to use them online.

 

[deathofaninja]

There is a lot of depth in simplicity. You still have to get good at a simple game, and at what point does it just become too much? I'm never going to make a career out of playing fighting games, it's just a fun hobby for me that I'm trying to take a little bit more seriously by learning everything that I can. And hopefully one day I will be able to also enjoy tournament play, and hopefully someday there will be a scene in my city.

That in itself is an achievement for me. But at the same time I think I understand where Havik is coming from. If a game is too easy, and maybe you are a character loyalist, maybe your want more meat and potatoes for your buck.

 

[MasterHavik]

There is a lot of depth in simplicity. You still have to get good at a simple game, and at what point does it just become too much? I'm never going to make a career out of playing fighting games, it's just a fun hobby for me that I'm trying to take a little bit more seriously by learning everything that I can. And hopefully one day I will be able to also enjoy tournament play, and hopefully someday there will be a scene in my city.

That in itself is an achievement for me. But at the same time I think I understand where Havik is coming from. If a game is too easy, and maybe you are a character loyalist, maybe your want more meat and potatoes for your buck.

Thanks man and great speech. All this competitive fighting games stuff is fun to me it makes the game fun for me.

 

[Ghosty-J]

I'll write more later. but here is the short version: when will fighting games won't be so braindead and easy to get into. when will it push players to actually learn the game and not just hop on to what is cheap. I feel fighters have been dumb down since the arcade and 2D era of fighters.

 

[MasterHavik]

i got this game already.

 

[d3v]

I'll write more later. but here is the short version: when will fighting games won't be so braindead and easy to get into. when will it push players to actually learn the game and not just hop on to what is cheap. I feel fighters have been dumb down since the arcade and 2D era of fighters.

I disagree. We've been riding the cheap shit since 1992. The only difference was the tech didn't spread around as easily back then.

Also, certain games these days are actually harder than older ones. For example, SFIV as a whole (thanks to some questionable decisions on Capcom's part) actually requires more execution than SFIII 3rd Strike. As for Marvel, that series execution always came from stuff that players developed. Morrigan Bullet Hell and Zero Lightning Loops are as executionally demanding as stuff from the older games.

 

[Rikuto]

Never been a fan of execution-heavy games myself. I am a fan of execution-heavy characters with big payoffs, but not the game systems themselves. I think it just arbitrarily bars some people from ever doing anything with it and there are better solutions to stop noobs from randoming better players out than just making controls difficult. Knowledge of the frame data, environmental awareness, mind games with unequal rewards, reaction, etc.


Brawl is a different story though. Tripping was simply a bad mechanic, period.

 

[MasterHavik]

Never been a fan of execution-heavy games myself. I am a fan of execution-heavy characters with big payoffs, but not the game systems themselves. I think it just arbitrarily bars some people from ever doing anything with it and there are better solutions to stop noobs from randoming better players out than just making controls difficult. Knowledge of the frame data, environmental awareness, mind games with unequal rewards, reaction, etc.


Brawl is a different story though. Tripping was simply a bad mechanic, period.

what do you think of x factor an dall these other tools they created for someone when they are losing?