Why is DOA such a stereotyped game?

[KING JAIMY]

One thing that bothers me a lot is the stereotype most non-DOA players have about DOA. They call the DOA players 'perverts' and 'people who don't take fighting games seriously'. It angers me when people say such things. Moreover, a stereotype can really hinder the growth of our community, since it leads to less people wanting to enter the DOA series because they don't want to be labeled as a pervert. For example, I came across this post on 9gag:

Spoiler

Source: http://9gag.com/gag/a9PMO9j

I know this picture shouldn't be taken too seriously at all, but people seemed to do so in the comment section. One person asked why liking the game Dead or Alive makes you a pervert. Some replies to this question were the following:

''It's a Japanese fighting game and it has sexy cute girls. There are even nude mods for it.''
''The only thing more in depth than the counter system in DOA are the breast physics.''
''Google it... the name has nothing to do with its content. It's all about half naked girls.''

Why doesn't DOA get taken seriously as a fighting game? Overall, people seem to underestimate the true complexity of DOA. They only hold the stereotype of DOA as an over-sexualized game with no deep mechanics at all. In fact, some people don't even realize that DOA has male characters in the game!

The question obviously is here: Why is DOA such a stereotyped game? I mean, Soul Calibur and Tekken have sexy girls too, right? Why do those games get respected and treated as a ''real fighting game'', but DOA does not? This is something I've always wondered. More importantly, what can we do as a community to reduce or even potentially eliminate this stereotype?

 

[Kronin]

I suppose that the problem come from the DoAX series: even if I like the spin-off for many reasons included the gameplay - and however I admit that I can't say to not be interested also in the fanservice - I suppose that it was that one (and especially the infamous second chapter) to attribute definitely to the franchise the fame of games uniquely addressed to who is looking for softcore in the female characters. I'm not sure about this kind of fame for the DoA series at the times of the second and third chapter, but I believe that it was something much minor and uniquely fueled from the breast algorythm of DoA1 (that was the first element to give this mark to the series). It's true that other series made use of the sexy factor and sometimes even exaggerating it more than certain chapters of DoA (first of all Soul Calibur), but again none of them has ever get something so related with the fanservice and so distant from their original nature of fighting game as happened in DoA; in addition I believe that the already bigger popularity of such series surely helped them to never lose their image even when following such directions.

What people can do now is just to continue to show the substance behind the game: the efforts done from Team NINJA and from the community with the promotion of the tournaments (however not with the soft-ban, not useful at all in my opinion) already started to change the vision of the people, if you think about now are always more the people that make a distinction between DoA and DoAX (where in the latter effectively the sexiness of the girls is one of the game's elements). But the DLC costume policy behind the game surely didn't help, otherwise I'm sure that nowadays the situation would be even more different and the DoA5 series would be taken even more professionally.

Other things that can help is to promote the knowledge behind the game even outside the tournaments. If a technical discussion starts in the middle of a GameFaq or Steam board, having the possibility and the will to answer to it surely can help to show how this is a game where the developers thought seriously behind the mechanics of it and that has many things to offer beyond the good looking girls. Even just convincing a person it's always better than no one at all.

 

[Project Bokuho]

^ What he said.

 

[Matt Ponton]

The sex appeal stereotype was dominant pre-DOAX. It's why DOAX was created. The first game was known as the "Tits" game for a reason. It was always advertised as the game with beautiful girls.

Tekken 3 released a volleyball mini-game within it, so fighting game fans asked Team NINJA (Itagaki) to do the same. At the time, he marketed the decision of DOAX as a jab at Tekken of course by saying if he was going to spend time working on a mini-game he'd rather spend the time making it a full game on its own than waste the effort like Tekken. Of course, now (in the era where Team NINJA gets bashed for its over sexualized DLC content that isn't much worse than DOA1) he says it was to keep the sex appeal separated from the fighting game.

Either way, if his latest comments are true then it backfired as it caused even more issues against the series. Keep in mind that people know DOA as the "she kicks high" game, which was a commercial for DOA3, well before DOAX was even on the horizon.

So in short, blame the fact that Itagaki wanted to create an arcade game that brought in a lot of Yen by promoting jiggle physics in a society that is pretty lax on its moral perversion in comparison to the West.

 

[Lulu]

All you can do is keep playing it.... beyond that I have no idea what else there is to do....

Besides its not like we run around showing how deep DoA's fight engine really is... it could scare off potential new players... but then again so is the stigma surrounding this game.

I suppose Team Ninja can make the next game without the Breast Physics, I doubt that would change its reputation.

Honestly I just don't know.

As for Tekken and Soul Calibur and all those other games.... well I don't know about that either..... all I know is DoA has better gameplay and thats why I went great lengths to get this game..... actually it wasn't that hard, I already knew which supplier specialised in UK Imports.... but you get the idea.

Remember the good old days back when the only stereotypes that mattered were the in game ones ?

 

[Matt Ponton]

I suppose Team Ninja can make the next game without the Breast Physics, I doubt that would change its reputation.

They tried doing that with DOA5, and were blasted by everyone on twitter that twitter and casual players "WANT BIGGER BREASTS".

 

[Kronin]

They tried doing that with DOA5, and were blasted by everyone on twitter that twitter and casual players "WANT BIGGER BREASTS".

Actually the complaint was about the breast size like you stated, not about changing the breast jiggle (even because from DoA5U it's wasn't only increased but it's even possible to set it off for who wishes so).

However the point is not only how the game is promoted, but even how people decide to see it. To make a DoA without any kind of fanservice not only would change the nature of the series (because this is part of is identity, people can ask for reducing the fanservice but from another side should even accept this element - a more technical parallel could be done with the holds), but imo it would have no effect (or at least not immediately) to the people that had a certain thought of the series until the previous title.

Some people say that the portrait of the game doesn't allow them to take the game seriously or to approach it, but I continue to believe that these are for the most excuses. Yes, in some cases this will be even right and surely some people maybe genuinely believe that DoA it's a game without substance for what they can hear without deciding to discover the thing by themselves... but for other cases, the majority I think, the reason is that DoA is a game pretty different from popular series as Tekken or Soul Calibur, that needs to be played in a very different way not only cause the triangle system but even for the focus on the mindsetting in comparison to the actual execution. If people dislike the mechanism of the game because considered unpopular, sexy game or less they will continue to not take it in consideration.

Smash Bros is a not ordinary title that has all the cards for being played competitively and demonstrated it along the years, again this doesn't avoid it to be the usual subject of the worst critics from other communities (however Smash Bros has no problem because the dislikers will be never able to overcome the huge number of competitive players and fans). For DoA would be very likely the same, even if of course no fan of it would dislike to live in a similar scenario.

 

[Lulu]

They tried doing that with DOA5, and were blasted by everyone on twitter that twitter and casual players "WANT BIGGER BREASTS".

They did ?
Oh well.... damned if you do, damned if don't.

I personally wouldn't mind (anymore) if they did remove them.... infact the way they were in 5 was kinda distracting because of how unnatural they moved.... and in 5U they give people the option to flatout out turn them off if they so desired. And that didn't do much to change its reputation.

 

[Kronin]

They did ?
Oh well.... damned if you do, damned if don't.

I personally wouldn't mind (anymore) if they did remove them.... infact the way they were in 5 was kinda distracting because of how unnatural they moved.... and in 5U they give people the option to flatout out turn them off if they so desired. And that didn't do much to change its reputation.

In general DoA5 Alpha demo was thought for being a game less sexy or anyway not explicit as happened later: the first costumes of Ayane and Hitomi (in addition to their body proportions) made it clear. Even the same addition of a sexyness factor through the transparence of white shirts or socks was an indicator that the focus wanted be on a kind of fanservice based on something very different than the simple bared skin of many bikini DLC. The "I'm a Fighter" motto wasn't just related to the approach of the series toward the competitive scene for the first time purposefully, but IMO even an invite to consider the girls of the game first of all fighters and then sexy ladies. In part this wanted also be a mean for detaching the reputation of the franchise from the volleyball spinoff toward the real core of the series, the fighting game.

Anyway many fans disliked this direction and wished something more "ordinary": having the possibility to make high revenues from the players even using this factor, of course the producers behind the game had no doubt about what to do.

 

[Matt Ponton]

The Off option was in DOA5 vanilla as well.

 

[Project Bokuho]

They tried doing that with DOA5, and were blasted by everyone on twitter that twitter and casual players "WANT BIGGER BREASTS".

I remember that day

 

[Kronin]

The Off option was in DOA5 vanilla as well.

My bad then, I remembered wrong.

 

[Lulu]

I must remember it wrong too because I don't remember seeing that option.... but then again I might not have been looking for it at the time

Anyway its nit just The Game's image.... I've actually gotten into a few debates about people thinking the game is not as deep because performing moves and combos and the control scheme is too simple and easy compared to 4 or 6 button fighters......

Killer Instinct is going through the same thing right now....

Part of the reason these games aren't taken seriously or believed to be deep is based on how accessible the games are. And are quickly dismissed as DBZ style Button Mashers.... the good news is I have had a better time convincing people that thats not the case....

Its best just to be honest but to also be informative: DoA has boobs.... those boobs move sometimes... but thats not all it has. Its got the most dynamically interactive enviroment, and the most strategic fight engine of any other fighting game..... and so on.

From there its up to people to decide if its worth their time.... as long as theres no misinformation.

 

[Tempest]

I mean, are we really going to complain about that kind of stereotype when "she kicks high" type advertising goes all the way back to doa 3? Yes other fighting games have sexy ladies, but it's just part of the game. In Soul Calibur 4 yes you can strip amy to her underwear, dress her up in a maid outfit and go online with it but you can also run around with Siegfried wearing only mankini, a cape and a surfboard. DOA has had 2 volleyball dating sim spinoffs, and the current version of the game has over $200 dollars of cosmetic dlc, about 90% of which is "sexy" outfits for the girls.

You don't see Street Fighter IV releasing online on steam with no online but the option to buy sexy costume packs for Sakura, Rose, Cammy, Ibuki and the rest of the cast. When you lose with Aoi in VF you don't get a long sequence of her bent over with her ass to the camera panting like she's in a gravure photo shoot.

If type Tekken 7 into youtube you get lots of gameplay videos. If you type doa 5 into youtube for every gameplay video you get 10 videos showcasing bikinis and maid outfits. You can do your best to try to counteract that by promoting the game and showing off real matches but so long as the game is like this, this perception is going to be around.

 

[Lulu]

Well that's fine.... as long as thats not all they believe the game is about....

 

[KasumiLover]

I don't like DOA players being stereotyped. Although I like the girls, especially Kasumi, enjoy the fan service, and even play the game with OMG mode on(don't judge me), I don't feel as if I'm a pervert. I love DOA for it's fighting system also: the complexity, environmental danger zones, and countering system was what really got me in the game... well, besides Kasumi. The FGC sadly always ridicules DOA, but other fighting games are not innocent. Soul Calibur 4, Tekken, Street Fighter, MK9, and many other fighting games have sexualized and fanservicey elements added, yet the get no flak because those games are considered the "mainstream" fighting games.

 

[Juihau]

I'd like to pop in as well and say that I think a large part of it also comes from the fact that DoA's just kinda been like that from the start, while SoulCalibur and Tekken, for example, became more sexualized over time. Since sexualization is typically seen as "pandering to the lowest common denominator," people just kind of assume that a series that starts with that hook must have nothing more than that hook. I believe Skullgirls faced a similar problem when it was coming out, didn't it? With the main reason that it was comparatively redeemed being that it was Mike Z, so more people were willing to give it a shot on that basis. Not to mention, DoA feels pretty different to play compared to even other 3D fighters, and 2D is already generally considered 'king.' Put all of that together, and the series just kinda has a lot of factors going against it.

 

[KasumiLover]

I'd like to pop in as well and say that I think a large part of it also comes from the fact that DoA's just kinda been like that from the start, while SoulCalibur and Tekken, for example, became more sexualized over time. Since sexualization is typically seen as "pandering to the lowest common denominator," people just kind of assume that a series that starts with that hook must have nothing more than that hook. I believe Skullgirls faced a similar problem when it was coming out, didn't it? With the main reason that it was comparatively redeemed being that it was Mike Z, so more people were willing to give it a shot on that basis. Not to mention, DoA feels pretty different to play compared to even other 3D fighters, and 2D is already generally considered 'king.' Put all of that together, and the series just kinda has a lot of factors going against it.

Exactly. People are just not giving the game a chance, and they're missing a great game in the process. Some also complain about the fan service DLC and say it's expensive, but you don't really have to buy them. Plus, Street fighter and Soul Calibur had some pretty raunchy fan service DLC, particularly for the girls. But the general Fighting game community sadly overlooks it.

 

[Lulu]

I turned on OMG mode to gauge my sisters reaction.... it was funny.

But it was just so distracting that I actually turned it back to Natural.... I break out OMG mode when I play with Alpha for the true Flubber Experience.

 

[UncleKitchener]

As someone's who's been trying to push the game in UK for years, it's essentially like swimming against the waves. The process usually involves jumping over the issues like the marketing and large number of costumes that are something out of bikini and ligere catalogs, while male characters are mostly boring looking with limited costume choices.

I heard someone quote Tom Lee that if tournament numbers don't see a boost soon, then the team will have to focus on dlc content rather than balance patching.

I don't know about you and I don't really know how much of a nice guy Tom Lee is, but if the Dev team really think that's an excuse after all these cash grab dlcs costume packs they've been putting on the market and more than a decade of counter productive marketing and two dating sims and a gravure mode within the game ....

Sometimes, jokes fly over my head, but this is hilarious and we've honestly dug our own graves.

Let's not forget community efforts like actually banning bikini and NSFW costumes from tourney streams. Even then, people cried out against this and claimed it was cersorship by republican parents to stop us from expressing our waifu love.

It's our own fault for letting this happen anyway, so we're stuck having to deal with things like stereotypes and labels.