"You are tearing me apart, Lisa!" The Lisa Strategy thread

[Batcommander]

Thought that title was too cool to pass up, and I noticed that there is not a thread yet dedicated to strategies for DOA5 Lisa. Guess we can post it in here, unless there is an objection. Also, some people have the game early, so we might get some early input!

 

[MaxwellMouse]

I do love the title.

 

[Batcommander]

So . . . did we all just give up on Lisa already, or what? lmao

Spent a few hours with her yesterday. Haven't figured out a use for the new body splash feint thing, it's telegraphed as hell. You can just sidestep it. I know dogg said jabs beat it too, but i wonder if the body splash attack will crush jabs? Will try that later.

Still trying out Carrera, it's nice to throw out once in a while, but it's very telegraphed, like most of Lisa's moves.

If an opponent doesn't tech out of the second from , and/or BT , you can follow up with , wait a second for them to get up, then mix them up with splash or throw. This is probably beatable by the new sidestep system tho, so yeah.
edit: also is good to use while BT too

still works at crossing up grounded opponents, which is good.

I do like the new elbow move from her classic that puts you into BT, and of course, the new booty bump move is a welcome addition.

 

[MaxwellMouse]

Sounds like Lisa is not so great. I do like Lisa but am focusing on other characters.

 

[synce]

I think the run stance is a terrible gimmick... but it is nice you can get to BT stance from more moves now. She's a little more fun to goof around with

 

[Knowxscape]

Another uphill battle for the Lisa players -__-

But I'm up to the challenge. I've always had a soft spot for underdog characters. And the feeling you get when you defeat a high ranked player with your supposed garbage tier character just makes victory so much sweeter.
I won't have the game until later today, but when i do i will definitely be in training mode working out new strategies with her Carrera and her BT stance options.

 

[Batcommander]

It would be nice if Lisa had a fast high that could crush fastest mids in BT, because being BT is nothing but a liability on block. I hardly use Carrera, the moves from it blow, way too slow to be useful. Did TN even playtest this chick, because I am finding her complete trash atm, like, what are her redeeming factors? Good high counter throw damage?

If she could play the stun game alright, then she'd be much better, but her moves either knock people down or leave them too far away, so you can't really get a momentum going, which in turn makes using CB nigh useless.

From my experience so far, she feels exactly like DOA4, except now i can hit people with my ass.

 

[DR2K]

She's all gimmicks, but they're all better gimmicks than in DOA4. Her sit down stun is so good and it guarantees a launcher. Haven't had too much time with her.

 

[Batcommander]

Played a bit more. The only thing guaranteed from leap frog throw () is a booty bump that barely stuns, and a single jab (they can hold after the first jab). From , you can only get a jab or (helicoptero). I actually wish the didnt knock down but did a heavy stun or something instead, because then you could try some Carrera shenanigans. If the opponent doesn't tech, you can get a free slide after knockdown but thats it. -_-

is six frames just like these throws, and it does guaranteed damage, with the possibility of high counter throw damage, so yeah -_-
edit: i forgot about walls. Irish whip throw does 80 damage by walls, making it much better. It gets you out of corners too, so what exactly is the point of leap frog throw now?

I could've sworn in one of those early Lisa vids, she could leap frog into booty bump then launcher, but they must've nerfed that shit or i'm missing something, because it doesnt work. What happened to booty bump limbo stun? Also, booty bump doesn't cause wall splat either, so that sucks. -_-

The move is still good, as it's 12 frames and has excellent range, but be mindful that it's also mid punch like your launcher, so people might "accidentally" hold it while fishing for your BT launcher.

I feel Carrera could be a lot more useful if you could use it after tracking and .

After landing a , you get a free helicoptero.

Anybody find anything good for the new low OH combo? The only thing i could get is , air throw, for only 15 points more damage. The range on this move is ridic tho, so that's good.

Anyone have any tips for stun game? I would LOVE to use her CB, and i think it's dumb as shit that it's unusable in BT, considering she TURNS HER BACK before using it. I start stun game from sidestep P, and the usual counter hit , but the only thing i've been mixing up with is jabs, , and , anything else seems too slow. I can only land CB on the FIFTH hit, so yeah, any tips would be welcome here, because this sucks.
edit: went to training, is a good tool to get CB. After landing sidestep P, you can , then CB on fourth hit! Of course, none of this is guaranteed, but that's where player ingenuity comes in. On normal hit, causes stun, and you can follow up with another, before landing that CB. Mix up with , but it does leave you in BT.
edit edit: went to training, set computer to fastest holds; okay, how the fuck do you even play the stun game in this game, because it seems the stun threshold is reset after each counter? I can't get any momentum with this chick on this setting. So much for the CB thing. . .

She's all gimmicks, but they're all better gimmicks than in DOA4. Her sit down stun is so good and it guarantees a launcher. Haven't had too much time with her.

Meh, her sitdown blows imo. It's 31 frames, -3 on block and leaves you BT on block too, with no option to stand facing towards, and only causes sitdown on counter or hi counter, so it's usefulness is diminished imo. The only other way to land it is in string, but good luck landing that, it's so easy to counter even when hit by the string.

I wish caused sitdown instead, but now it knocks down even on normal, so what's the point of the once again useless follow up strings; they are WAY too slow to not be avoided or countered.

Trying to understand this character makes my head hurt, i don't even know what the devs were thinking when they were coming up with some of these "tools".

 

[MasterHavik]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjIeulHxWdCodFQwR2wtNGJ4TGNEcEZaZmNXcHAtM0E#gid=0

This should help.

 

[ScattereDreams]

Lisa is all gimmicks, and unfortunately you have to play the stun game when using her. If Lisa players aren't using 9k then they're doing something wrong. It's definitely one of her top 10 moves. It's a sit down stun that guarantee's backturned 4p launcher. 1pp, pp4, backturned 4p+k, backturned 2p, and backturned 4p are all good moves.

 

[Dallas1088]

Has anyone tested the evasiveness on Lisa's ? It seems like it can avoid a decent amount of stuff, plus it has great reach, and can lead into a simple stun combo.

And after a ground bounce, such as a standard , what do you guys think is Lisa's best option as a followup? seems decent and gives her great space, seems the most damaging but not as good space-wise, and force techs the opponent up to where she could go into mindgames. I guess it's probably matchup specific, but what do you find yourselves using?

 

[ailingeternity]

still crushes highs, is a crazily fast string, and leaves her in BT.

I believe after she can get the following juggles:

NH -
CH - - (Unsure)
HCH - -

Ultimately weight classes determine what juggles you can perform, but for most characters (Which are mid and lighter) those are the juggles you can get.

 

[Batcommander]

Has anyone tested the evasiveness on Lisa's ? It seems like it can avoid a decent amount of stuff, plus it has great reach, and can lead into a simple stun combo.

Lisa's is still godlike, has amazing range, crushes highs, and now tracks. It's unsafe as hell unless you cancel it into P or K string, so be wary tho.

I feel with Lisa you have to play keepaway, which is nuts because she's a grappler. Because she's so slow, you don't want people in your face unless you've stunned them, which is good at doing, and don't forget about sidestep P. Helicoptero () is a great GTFO off me move, it is her fastest mid while facing forward and can be canceled into Carrera if you feel like it can work. Unless i'm mistaken it's also really unsafe, but i'm not sure how much that matters since it creates distance between you and your opponent.

I like how TN gave Lisa even more useless strings that are all 100 percent unusable unless fighting brain dead opponents, like the turn flip strings and new PP mixup off 1KK string, lmao

 

[MasterHavik]

You know I always say this about Lisa. Wanna play a grappler that is good? Play Tina.

 

[Tones]

I think the run stance is a terrible gimmick... but it is nice you can get to BT stance from more moves now. She's a little more fun to goof around with

It's just a shortcut to get into running. It's barely a stance since it's only active for a couple of steps, enough to cover the mid to close distance. You can just stop holding forward at any point.

I'd have to test it but you should be able to side step from it as well.

Running p and k+f feel like her best options since they track. P is (16 frames iirc) fast enough with good range. Running K's animation seems makes it hard to read, crushes and also has evasive properties. This all makes it really good range since it has a good amount of active frames.

Running OH is legit as well but it's pointless without the pressure of a standard throw and P. The range on it is a bit short but that's fine. I'd use the throws at the same distance as what you want with running k+f. Use with taste only, you can't just always run in and OH.

Running p+k has a really bad hitbox. It's a mid but it whiffs when you're slightly off axis and if they are slightly off axis, so if they do an attack, you're likely to miss.

You can also just run in and do a regular throw.

Critical bursting with her feels bad. They can slow escape after 6k 1p before you get the next strike to build it. Which means one can only really rely on the use of jabs and mid punches to extend it. I'm fine with only mid punches since her throws, on hi-counter, can do about 40% health while the breakable does almost the same if you can get the second one in, but the decision window is very tight.

Lisa feels solid.

 

[MasterHavik]

How does she feel solid?

 

[Tones]

Her gimmicky moves from DOA4 have their uses now.

Example 6k, which is 14 frames, mid, stuns on counter. The K follow up knocks down on normal hit and is fast enough while the 2k hits them if they side step. You can throw side steps but that's not reliable if they side stepped early enough. It provides security in a guessing game.

1pk stuns on normal, the next k is a mid which you can use if they crush the high, the next k does a nice stun which pushes them away while the 2k will get them if they block or crush the previous attacks then side step. Other than that you can just free cancle and the last or second last k and do whatever, throw or whatever.

9p/9k mix ups have their purposes as well, one tracks, one is safe another is an OH another crushes, and you can jump over your opponent.

 

[Batcommander]

The slide from carrera doesn't track.

That stuff you listed is just basic Lisa 101, i don't quite understand how that makes her solid? She's been doing that 6k mixup since DOA4, it's always been one of her best moves to mixup with 6p strings since they're same frames. (6pk tracks too, just noticed as well). Her gimmicky moves are her turn flip strings, her 1k followups, and her rope walking moves, and those are all just as useless as they were in DOA4.

Carrera is not as useless as i thought since it has tracking moves, but i am not sure what to do with the splash feint thing yet. I can't set shit up with this move, it's beat by jabs and sidesteps, even if you decide not to feint the splash.

I agree her stun game blows. Honestly, i just use 1pk, 1pk, then go for CB, it's iffy, but it works and beats low hold spammers. If they try to hold the second 1pk, use 1pkk first, follow up with whatevs, then try CB.
Also, sidestep p, 1pk, then CB can work too if your opponent has bad luck at holding (lol).

Also, i am curious, how are you using 9p mixups, because that shit is retard slow. It takes 58-60 (!) frames for an attack to come out, an opponent can read this shit a mile away. The attacks do not track either, not even the jumping OH, so how is this useful? I suppose you can use 9p to cross a grounded opponent if you're up close, but that's not saying much imo.

Another note: her jumping OH still doesnt track either, but it seems Carrera OH does.

 

[Tones]

I like 1k because it knocks down on normal hit and crushes highs. At mid-long distance, if it whiffs 1k makes you travel forward a bit and is the same move. If the first or second on hits and doesn't knock them down you can use that to set up you run in game or an OH. Just gotta watch out for crushes if you 1k twice.

6k2k was pretty much useless in DOA4.

You can whiff punish wake up kicks with 236p. I use 9p/k when they are tech rolling. Punishing wake up kicks and using 2k to stop them out of wake ups set up your 9p/k. Other than that you can use it as a hail marry at mid-long distance.