"You are tearing me apart, Lisa!" The Lisa Strategy thread

[Batcommander]

1k is undoubtedly good, especially cuz it tracks now. What isn't good, are the terrible follow up strings. It has me scratching my head. They were useless in 4, and yet TN decided to expand upon them? They might have been useful if the kick didn't knock down (i still think it should cause sitdown) on normal, but oh well.

Thanks for the tips on 9p, ill try that, but couldn't an opponent also just sidestep it?

On another note, still lamenting the nerf on booty bump, what a shame. check out 2:03.

In this vid is also a nice CB setup from BT. I completely forgot Lisa now has 7P from BT, which is a tracking mid.

 

[Knowxscape]

her recovery from her 66k guard crush is tons better that her doa 4 ver, And i find it the most effective way for going into her Carrera mix-ups. Also the tracking on her Carrera OH is too awesome for words. I wish i could say the same for her other OHs.

the ranging on her 1pp makes it easy to get to players who are trying to keep distant and its one of her better mix-up starters.

I'm still wishing that TN made Lisa's 6p+k jump over low wake up kicks like Vanessa's in VF5.

Overall, she isn't perfect and like doa 4 you definitely want to understand the rhythm of her attacks, but I can honstely say that she's more of a threat this time around.

 

[ScattereDreams]

Her booty bump is still the same as from that video. They just had the stun setting's set to high counter blow. Personally, I think the booty bump should be a sit down stun on NH...

 

[ailingeternity]

In DOA4 236p could interrupt mid and low wake-up kicks amazingly, it seems quite hard to get that now, never really used it as a whiff punisher but im sure it has its uses there, but at -18 it's still punishable by throws, even though it's a guard break.

I think 1k is ass now, the sit-down stun it had in DOA4 was great for setting up a 50/50 between 6p and her OH/Deja Vu if you felt lucky. It's really poor as a knockdown now since there isn't any good oki that comes from it. This cuts her pressure game down immensely since without an easily accessible low that can stun she has to work even harder to bait and punish. For the high crush, 1p is superior in every respect.

I'm interested to see what juggles you guys have come up for her new 3f+p f+p launcher. So far here's what I have:

Light and Midweights - 6p8k (delay 8k) 4pk f+p - 81 on NH, 94 on CH and 104 on HCH.
If the opponent is lightweight and hit with Hi-Counter, change f+p to 4pkk damage scaling plays a factor here.

Heavyweight - 6p8k (delay 8k) 4pk 4f+k - 62 damage on NH, 79 on CH, and 93 on HCH.

As you can see it's huge damage on Hi-Counter, if anyone can find better juggles update me.

 

[Tones]

7p6 (whatever it's called) is just a short cut for while running. It can be canceled after your first step. I quite like using this... Just have to watch out for flipping onto walls.

Do 7p6 side step, 7p6 side step at a safe distance. If they try to run in an punish you just side step again or interrupt them with a side step attack. Otherwise just keep fainting and when you think it's right don't side step and go get them with something.

The range on while running P is mad.

 

[Batcommander]

In DOA4 236p could interrupt mid and low wake-up kicks amazingly, it seems quite hard to get that now, never really used it as a whiff punisher but im sure it has its uses there, but at -18 it's still punishable by throws, even though it's a guard break.

I think 1k is ass now, the sit-down stun it had in DOA4 was great for setting up a 50/50 between 6p and her OH/Deja Vu if you felt lucky. It's really poor as a knockdown now since there isn't any good oki that comes from it. This cuts her pressure game down immensely since without an easily accessible low that can stun she has to work even harder to bait and punish. For the high crush, 1p is superior in every respect.

I'm interested to see what juggles you guys have come up for her new 3f+p f+p launcher. So far here's what I have:

Light and Midweights - 6p8k (delay 8k) 4pk f+p - 81 on NH, 94 on CH and 104 on HCH.
If the opponent is lightweight and hit with Hi-Counter, change f+p to 4pkk damage scaling plays a factor here.

Heavyweight - 6p8k (delay 8k) 4pk 4f+k - 62 damage on NH, 79 on CH, and 93 on HCH.

As you can see it's huge damage on Hi-Counter, if anyone can find better juggles update me.

yeah, i agree 1k knocking down on normal sucks, i was looking forward to the sitdown from DOA4, but they changed it. It's main function now is to be a full circular sweep, so it has its uses. It's still Lisa's only low tool worth using, i find the K from 66PK to be too slow and risky to use.

Will try those low throw setups later.

Love the avatar btw, Pam rocks

 

[ailingeternity]

yeah, i agree 1k knocking down on normal sucks, i was looking forward to the sitdown from DOA4, but they changed it. It's main function now is to be a full circular sweep, so it has its uses. It's still Lisa's only low tool worth using, i find the K from 66PK to be too slow and risky to use.

Will try those low throw setups later.

Love the avatar btw, Pam rocks

66pk isn't too bad but should be used sparingly, it's hard to confirm but Lisa has 66pp which dishes out a good stun so when both are put together it becomes a 50/50 but 66p MUST connect whether on block on not. Alternatively 66pk is quite predictable she can just use 66p and punish from there if the opponent chooses to low hold which in most cases, they do.

(Thanks, I'm planning on asking Pam if I can be her progeny.)

 

[Batcommander]

Her booty bump is still the same as from that video. They just had the stun setting's set to high counter blow. Personally, I think the booty bump should be a sit down stun on NH...

I just checked, booty bump doesnt give limbo stun even on hi counter anymore

Anyone found a use for Lisa's new qcf OH? It looks like it can crush highs because of the ducking animation but i have not had any luck using it like that. 66 OH is faster, has roughly the same(or even more) range, and only does 5 damage less, so yeah

 

[Tones]

She does that with her normal OH, it's just more noticeable. There is no evasive properties either. Apart from when I screw up the Deja Vu input. I've been using it once or twice a game when we got more than a jab space between use, where as you're likely to dash in with the other.

 

[ailingeternity]

I use it for a 50/50 after hitting a grounded opponent with mixed with BT . It's much better than having to deal with that stupid BT . Granted it's 15 less damage than if I use but BT can be seen from a mile away since it's 39 frames, is 20 frames.

In addition has anybody else realised there are only mid and low wake-up kicks now. This answers why doesn't work against mid wake-up kicks anymore. This gives even more oki powers, if they choose to kick its a choice between eating a combo and a mid hold.

 

[Batcommander]

Buncha random notes:

Lisa can sidestep in BT! Apparently, it doesn't work with the button command, and it only works reliably with 88, not 22. Seems like a glitch to me, albeit a functional one. It isn't a "true" sidestep, i think what happens is that you cancel the freerun into a sidestep, so there is probably an extra frame or two in there, but it still works. Because of that, it is not reliable to use after a blocked transition into BT, though if spaced correctly, you can use it after a blocked 9k to evade fastest mids, but not highs.

In other words, don't use this shit up close, use it while BT at mid and far range. You can use BT forward dash, then sidestep, to bait people

qcf OH is better to use from BT than the jumping one, because unlike the lame 40 frame jumping OH, it tracks. So if you absolutely need an OH from BT, use the qcf since it's twice the speed.


Here's something lame: Lisa's Booty Bump counts as a mid punch AND mid kick Le sigh.

Lisa's backdash from BT is VERY good, in fact, if spaced correctly, you can evade fast highs and mids from your unsafe blocked transitions to BT. You can also do a consecutive backdash right after it, creating more space. A good way to bait people is to use a transition into BT, backdash, then follow up with an attack or throw.

Unlisted transitions into BT:
PP4
PPP4
Carrera P4

Carrera P can also be chained into splash and splash feint.

Landing a blocked splash gives +17, but apparently the only thing that is guaranteed to land is anything 15 and less. Technically, you SHOULD be able to land a knee launcher, but it doesn't work if the opponent just holds block; however if they try to counter the knee, the knee will land

Carrera P and PPP string have interesting properties. First off, the second and third punch of PPP tracks, which is nice. Secondly, you can cancel the recovery of Carrera P and the third punch of PPP into a crazy ass backdash with better range than the BT backdash! It's almost like Sarah's backstep, and can be chained into another backdash for even more distance.

It creates enough space so you can run again and try another mixup with carrera, though you have to input the run manually.

 

[Tones]

236k4 as well.

Nice, so we found a use for 236p+f .

Nice findings Batcommander!

 

[Batcommander]

Thanks Tones.

I'm finding BT 1P to be a really good move atm. It causes trip stun on counter hit, or normal hit if you're in water, and it tracks. It gives enough stun to land a 6p or 6k if they don't hold if used on normal hit. Did anyone realize 7K from BT tracks as well? And it's relatively safe at -7, except against grapplers of course.

I'm finding myself relying on 33K launcher a bit more. I avoid playing the stun game by just going for a launcher and using an air throw after landing a stun, since we now have 3 launchers with different properties, 8K, 33P, and 33K. Obviously i am not maximizing my damage, but i'd rather get that damage than get potentially held, especially since Lisa's fillers in stun game are too slow imo.

qcf P is a fucking -18 on block, despite being a guard break LMAO. It is our fastest move from Carrera though. I'm a lot more wary when using this move now.
edit: i meant to say qcf P, not splash. qcf P is the flying cross chop

 

[ailingeternity]

The only moves that are guaranteed to connect after BT are , , and her strings. can lead to BT offering good mixup and has it's launcher follow-up which has good juggle height. It's also not a bad idea to use an OH (). Such a wierd guard break...

Body splash is a fucking -18 on block, despite being a guard break LMAO. It is our fastest move from Carrera though. I'm a lot more wary when using this move now.

Even in DOA4 it was incredibly unsafe, without easy access to check frame advantage though I think most just used a low throw as a quick way to punish it. It still has whiff punishing potential, can crush lows, is her go-to for wall carry and works as a great string interrupter from mid range since it still has a large amount of active frames. Although it seems like a good move to close distance (which it is) the fact that it's the polar opposite from safe makes it a very risky move. On the whole it should mainly be used to whiff punish and for wall carry.

 

[Batcommander]

Ooh, since there are no wakeup high kicks, we can use to crush wake up mid kicks. It has to be properly spaced though, interestingly enough, the best space i've found is after already landing a 8 OH. So we now have 2 good oki options against wake up kicks, the jumping OH for wakeup mids, and the 9k for wakeup lows.

PP4 on hit is a really good mixup, nice move to follow up with is 1P from BT.

I am really loving Lisa's backdash from BT! Combined with the 88 sidestep glitch, it gives her some nice movement options. And it looks cool

edit: okay i don't know why i just glossed over this in an earlier post like it was no biggie, but 44 Throw fucking rocks with your back to a wall. It does 70-80 damage on NORMAL HIT depending on the wall, and 105-115 on hi counter! That's more than a fucking deja vu hi counter, and not only that, it is only SEVEN FRAMES (deja vu is 12).

You should be trying to land this with your back to a wall. It's risky, but you can use leap frog to get to the wall, stun your opponent, then try to land this.

The other good thing about this throw is that it gets you OUT of the corner, so it can be used as an escape method too if you don't like your position. This also means leap frog is useless for this too, since they are both the same frames wise.

edit 2: after landing a Carrera slide kick, you are left in BT and within perfect range for your opponent to wake up kick you. Stay there and bait their wakeup kick, use your BT backdash, then punish accordingly! Flying cross chop (qcf P) is a nice start!

 

[Batcommander]

More random notes:
i was wrong about qcf Throw being usable in BT. It's not. What happens is that the qcf motion cancels BT into freerun, facing you forward and effectively adding a few more frames to an already slow move. Tis better just to hit block to quickly face about and use 66 Throw, if you need an OH.

Tested Mariposa's rope strings. Apparently, is now an attack! And it tracks too, if you land a counter stun it gives enough advantage to try a follow up move.

None of the moves track from the rope walking stance EXCEPT for the OH And i believe its a lot faster than DOA 4, so it might warrant some use. So we now have a bit of a mixup while walking the ropes.

Also, is still useful against wakeup kicks.

 

[Konton]

If you do BT booty bump during an opponents wake-up kick at the right time, you'll slide right through their character model without either character touching the other, leaving you front facing and their back deliciously turned to your advantage. Watch it if they roll, it's not the safest move in the world. If they rise and counter they have a 1/3 chance of holding correctly, too.

 

[Awesmic]

Off-topic, but welcome back Konton. =)

 

[Konton]

Oi! Hey there. I'm on ps3 though =/

 

[Tones]

44p+f is a beast! 6 frames 70 if you get a wall behind you. If you don't get a wall, follow up with pp, or low OH (4p instead of low OH against those with a BT low throw)