Xbox-One Revealed
- Thread starter GeomighT
- Start date
Game Over
Well-Known Member
This just dawned on me ...
Here's a "brilliant" idea. If publishers want their games to generate more revenue, how about adapting more of the PC model of releasing EXPANSIONS to a game (that are only playable WITH the game)!? You figure the development of expansions will cost less than that of a whole new game, plus people will then be encouraged to keep more of their games, which then leads to fewer "used game sales" to whine and complain about!
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
I'll be in the small minority here, but I still intend on purchasing an Xbox One.
Don't flame me just yet, please. I must admit I've always preferred Microsoft systems over Sony systems (I've owned every single Sony and Microsoft system, so it's not like my preference is random and arbitrary) and I've always enjoyed the features of the Xbox more than the PlayStation. While paying to play online was a bit of a hassle from time to time, the superior online experience was worth it in my opinion. Besides, from what I understand, you have to have a paid subscription for most games on the PS4 now anyways, so that part isn't a huge deal anymore. So yeah, you could consider me a mild Microsoft fanboy, but only in the sense that I've enjoyed their systems more than I've enjoyed Sony's.
That said, Microsoft's actions have me utterly bewildered. When competing with the PS4, and of course the PC (a system loved for its near limitless potential and lack of restrictions), the shackles they've placed on so many different aspects of gaming seem completely counter-productive. It's like a restaurant trying to one-up their competitors by cutting out 1/3 of their menu and 1/2 of their tables.
These really are, as most everyone has touched upon, anti-customer practices. It's truly a confusing move, and even assuming that they've placed these limitations in their quest for money, I just don't see how deterring potential buyers can ever lead to more cash flow.
Still, for me (and very few others), these restrictions do very little to affect me, and on the rare occasion that they will - such as a day or so without internet - I've other alternatives to occupy myself. I have constant internet, I'm not a paranoid privacy freak, I don't sell games all too often as I only buy games I feel confident I'll enjoy more than once, saving a few bucks on a used game isn't a huge priority for me, and considering the family sharing (and figuring my dad will also buy an Xbox One for himself back in New York, and my brother gets one out in Ohio), the new features may even be a boon to my gaming experience. As such, I'll be buying this system regardless of what's already been said. My step-brother and sister come in my room often to watch TV and movies, so the multi-media function of the device will be quite nice.
I know, trust me - I'm a rare exception to the case, and truly, I think Microsoft is heading in a terrible direction for the general populace. That said, I'll still buy the system and I'm certain I'll enjoy it as much as I have my 360. The games still look beautiful and I'm excited for their future line-up. And hell, if the sales go as horribly as we all imagine they will, Microsoft will change some of their features down the line to hopefully reclaim some of their lost customers, and maybe pull a Nintendo and give us early buyers a nice little present for our troubles. One can only hope (:
Don't flame me just yet, please. I must admit I've always preferred Microsoft systems over Sony systems (I've owned every single Sony and Microsoft system, so it's not like my preference is random and arbitrary) and I've always enjoyed the features of the Xbox more than the PlayStation. While paying to play online was a bit of a hassle from time to time, the superior online experience was worth it in my opinion. Besides, from what I understand, you have to have a paid subscription for most games on the PS4 now anyways, so that part isn't a huge deal anymore. So yeah, you could consider me a mild Microsoft fanboy, but only in the sense that I've enjoyed their systems more than I've enjoyed Sony's.
That said, Microsoft's actions have me utterly bewildered. When competing with the PS4, and of course the PC (a system loved for its near limitless potential and lack of restrictions), the shackles they've placed on so many different aspects of gaming seem completely counter-productive. It's like a restaurant trying to one-up their competitors by cutting out 1/3 of their menu and 1/2 of their tables.
These really are, as most everyone has touched upon, anti-customer practices. It's truly a confusing move, and even assuming that they've placed these limitations in their quest for money, I just don't see how deterring potential buyers can ever lead to more cash flow.
Still, for me (and very few others), these restrictions do very little to affect me, and on the rare occasion that they will - such as a day or so without internet - I've other alternatives to occupy myself. I have constant internet, I'm not a paranoid privacy freak, I don't sell games all too often as I only buy games I feel confident I'll enjoy more than once, saving a few bucks on a used game isn't a huge priority for me, and considering the family sharing (and figuring my dad will also buy an Xbox One for himself back in New York, and my brother gets one out in Ohio), the new features may even be a boon to my gaming experience. As such, I'll be buying this system regardless of what's already been said. My step-brother and sister come in my room often to watch TV and movies, so the multi-media function of the device will be quite nice.
I know, trust me - I'm a rare exception to the case, and truly, I think Microsoft is heading in a terrible direction for the general populace. That said, I'll still buy the system and I'm certain I'll enjoy it as much as I have my 360. The games still look beautiful and I'm excited for their future line-up. And hell, if the sales go as horribly as we all imagine they will, Microsoft will change some of their features down the line to hopefully reclaim some of their lost customers, and maybe pull a Nintendo and give us early buyers a nice little present for our troubles. One can only hope (:
SchwarzPhy
Active Member
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Not surprised at all really 360 as is was doing terrible in JP and it was a actual good console. No surprise there is no JP support I like JP and play a lot of JP games. I'm now happy that I'm going back to PS4 thanks MS for making it a easy choice.
Game Over
Well-Known Member
Plus, isn't the used game market even MORE a practice over in JP? If so, it would make even more sense they want nothing to do with the X1.
[EDIT]
NVM. Japan isn't axed, MS will just be getting to them ... LATE. lol
http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/11/4418144/xbox-one-launch-in-asia-late-2014
SchwarzPhy
Active Member
Yeah my question comes from a development standpoint. It's going to be impossible to develop netcode if you're connecting to servers halfway across the world, if you can connect at all.
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
This is hilarious, my country didn't even get 360 support till last november.
SchwarzPhy
Active Member
The 360 didn't need to be connected to the internet. It might be a hassle but you could import a 360 and still play offline, From what I understand you won't be able to with the One.
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
Right, I'm saying that until countries get support xbox1 will be completely useless to them, unless there is some way to make foreign accounts.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
Yeah no.. That's not what they mean.
There are quite a few people that buy a new game, play it once, and then resell it after a week or less. While it is true that that copy has already been payed for, another new copy is not being bought, because the used copy that's in the store a week later is cheaper.
There aren't many people that buy a car, drive it for ten miles and resell it at a cheaper price. There aren't many people that buy a dvd, watch it once, and sell it. There aren't many people that buy a cd, listen to it once, and sell it. The other markets work differently than the games market. A better analogy would be someone going to the theater and buying a ticket to watch a movie, and then that person can resell the ticket to another person to watch it at a later time at a cheaper price. The theater gets nothing, while both watchers get the experience they want plus pay less. Obviously the movie theater would revolt, because it would put them out of business. Two people get the experience while one has payed for it. So the one who would've probably bought it new at full price will buy it second hand instead, making the developers miss out on the income. The seller saves money, the second hand buyer saves money, and the retailer that facilitates the transaction gains money, while the developers get nothing.
This is their method of thinking anyway. How big the influence of these issues is, is debatable. I personally think it can't possibly be that big. Unless the game is too short and/or lacks multiplayer. Maybe the ones who buy it second hand aren't able to buy it new anyway, and so on.. So.. Yeah. It does kill innovative games though, since the risk for certain games is too high. So, we'll get a bunch of regular shooters with multiplayer to try and keep sales up.
Still terrible logic. They have no proof to back the supposed theory that lack of "unseen" "potential" sales directly correlates to used sales. They have no logical justification or right to attack the used market based of assumptions. If anything logic and reason would dictate to them they could sale more copies if prices were lower. That is if they truly believe used game sales are hurting new game sales.
We are talking about a free open market system here in America which lets the market correct itself. If the used game market is really that big of a threat well then that is market saying HELLO game prices are to high. They should adapt and compete with the market not regulate or decapitate it.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
That's where all the new servers they're building come into play. They're supposed to build triple what they have now. That was mentioned during the X1 one reveal. Problem is since they went down the DRM path no one would want to buy their console. You're not gonna expand with all those damn restrictions. They might of done well too if they just took away that DRM. We'll see how it goes I though don't see XBone lasting long. I also see MS sticking to their guns and keeping the DRM. If they have been stubborn this far into the race. I don't see them changing it during the X1's life.
That's terrible.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Well said they are too high this too was covered already in this thread Saber was the one who posted the study on used game sales. I forgot the exact details but the study did point out how if new games were cheaper sales went up. Then I brought up how discs are lighter than cartridges less and less material is being used to make cases. The "green movement" doesn't use manuals now they are in game or online. That's if they even bother with a manual, so shipping costs are down. Games are bigger nowadays, but I honestly don't believe they are so expensive to develop that it was necessary to jack the price of current games another $10. $60 is just way too much for new it was fine at $50 Publishers just wanted more money not the Developers.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
Article from xbox engineer. Stating their long term goals, the intentions with the XB1
http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions
http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions
The thing is we suck at telling the story. The whole point of the DRM switch from disc based to cloud based is to kill disc swapping, scratched discs, bringing discs to friends house, trade-ins for shit value with nothign going back to developers, and high game costs. If you want games cheaper then 59.99, you have to limit used games somehow. Steam's model requires a limited used game model.
>The thing is, the DRM is really really similar to steam... You can login anywhere and play your games, anyone in your house can play with the family xbox. The only diff is steam you have to sign in before playing, and Xbox does it automatically at night for you (once per 24 hours)
>It's a long tail strategy, just like steam. Steam had it's growing pains at the beginning with all it's drm shit as well. [...] For digital downloads steam had no real competition at the time, they were competing against boxed sales. At the time people were pretty irate about steam, (on 4chan too...) It was only once they had a digital marketplace with DRM that was locked down to prevent sharing that they could do super discounted shit.
>Think about it, on steam you get a game for the true cost of the game, 5$-30$. On a console you have to pay for that PLUS any additional licenses for when you sell / trade / borrow / etc. If the developer / publisher can't get it on additional licenses (like steam), then they charge the first person more. [...] If we say "Hey publishers, you limit game to 39.99, we ensure every license transfer you get 10$, gamestop gets 20$" that is a decent model... Microsoft gets a license fee on first and subsequent game purchases, compared to just first now? That's a revenue increase.
>Competition is the best man, it helps drive both to new heights. See technology from the Cold War. If we had no USSR, we'd be way worse off today. TLDR: Bring it on Steam
2/4
>Yeah we passed that around the office at Xbox. Most of us were like "Well played Sony, Well played". That being said they are just riding the hype train of ZOMG THEY ARE TRYING TO FUCK US FOR NO REASON. Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back... [...] just simpleminded people not seeing the bigger picture. Some PS4 viral team made them all "U TOOK R DISCS" and they hiveminded.
>Everyone and their mother complains about how gamestop fucks them on their trade ins, getting 5$ for their used games. We come in trying to find a way to take money out of gamestop, and put some in developers and get you possibly cheaper games and everyone bitches at MS. Well, if you want the @#$@ing from Gamestop, go play PS4.
>The goal is to move to digital downloads, but Gamestop, Walmart, Target, Amazon are KIND OF FUCKING ENTRENCHED in the industry. They have a lot of power, and the shift has to be gradual. Long term goal is steam for consoles. [...] If you always want to stay with what you have, then keep current consoles, or a PS4. We're TRYING to move the industry forwards towards digital distribution... it'sa bumpy road
>Publishers have enourmous power. Microsoft is trying to balance between consumer delight, and publisher wishes. If we cave to far in either direction you have a non-starting product. WiiU goes too far to consumer, you have no 3rd party support to shake a stick at. PS4 is status-quo. XB1 is trying to push some things, at the expense of others. We have a vision, we'll see if it works in the coming years
>Living room transformation. We want to own the living room. Every living room TV with an XBox on input one. It's the thing that gives the signal to your TV, everything is secondary. The future, where games, TV, internet telephony, all that shit happens magically on some huge ass screen with hand / voice gestures... That's our goal.
3/4
>Google TV + PS4 + Minority report level gestures, that combined with a sick second screen experience (which is really hot for TV, I know I know.. tv tv tv tv tv... but it's fucking sick when you have it). Games will be the same, there are more exclusives to MS then PS atm, and Kinect 2 makes Kinect 1 look like a childs toy.
>By default it's on, listening for "Xbox On". You can turn it off tho, and turn the console like OFF off. OFF off is required for Germany / other countries that require it (no vampire appliances) [...] It has to be plugged in for the console to post. You can turn off everything it does from the settings. Think of it like airplane mode for the iPhone. You can't just unplug the cellular radio, but you can turn it off.
>Instead of 10mins, is 24hrs for your console, and 1 or 2 at a friends house. Really the majority of people have a speck of internet at least once a day. And if you don't. Don't buy an Xbox 1. Just like if you didn't have a broadband connection don't get Live, and if you don't have an HDTV the 360 isn't that great for you either. New tech, new req. This allows us to do cool shit when we can assume things like you have a kinect, you have internet, etc.
>Current plan is basically you're fucked after 24 hours. Yeah... I know. Kind of sucks. I believe they will probably revist the time period and / or find a diff way to "call in" to ensure you haven't sold your license to gamestop or something... but there is no plan YET. I'm hoping the change it, but I don't work on that so I don't have much influence there /sigh
>If the power goes out you ain't playing shit. I'm assuming you mean the internet goes out but you have power for TV and Xbox. Yes, You're fucked for single player games. Again, that's the PoR (Plan of record), but I expect it to change after the e3 clusterfuck
>What fee? There is no fee to play your games at your friends house. Never has, never will. Even x360 digital downloads could do that.
4/4
>The cloud capabilities is the shit they like the most. We basically made a huge cloud compute shit and made it free. What people are doing with it is kind of cool. THe original intention was to get all the Multiplayer servers not requiring 3rd party costs (Like EA shutting down game servers to cut costs), as well as taking all the games that servers hosted by the clients (Halo, etc), and have all that compute done in the cloud allowing more CPU cycles for gameplay. That will really expand what developers can do. Anything that doesn't need per frame calculation and can handle 100ms delays can be shifted to the cloud. That's huge.
>SmartGlass + IE is going to be pretty freaking sweet. 1 finger cursor, 2 finger direct manip. Basically if you think of a laptop trackpad where your phone/ slate is the trackpad and the monitor is your TV... it's that. The tech is there, just needs to be applied. There is some really cool shit going on with Petra + controllers that pairs people with controllers. So if person with controller two trades controlers with controller 1, their profiles magically switch. It's sick. What does this matter? Now if you lean left/right it knows which person is leaning, even if 4 people are all int he same room. It's awesome.
>New service using Azure for cloud compute. Allows developers to not use clients for hosting multiplayer servers, or other tasks that do not require per frame calcuations. It's pretty sweet.
>Honestly, if you care about anything other then pure games AT ALL. Xbox 1 > PS4. If all you do is play games, and nothing else, PS4.
This was all from the Microsoft engineer that was on /b/ last night.
>It's not worth my time to prove it, or risk my Job. I work in Studio A, 40th ave in Redmond, Wa. The thai place in the studio cafeteria has double punch wednesdays. Go ahead and call them and verify if you want.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Wow I had to read that again cause that is so absurd I read it as something else at first. I just saw it as 21 countries not "states" they are limiting the console to the very country it comes from??? Where the 360 also sold the most really? Really? I'm stunned I'm at a loss of words right now of how utterly stupid that is. Xbox needs a needs to change its name to the roflcopterbox or lolbox.