The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[iHajinShinobi]

It's a Street Fighter (SF4) term to describe having multiple attack options after landing an untechable knockdown.

It's a term that honestly doesn't belong in DOA, though people use it a lot. How I've seen most people use the term, technically, everything could be considered a vortex in DOA once you stun someone or force tech them up. We use to call them 50/50 mix-ups but I guess calling it a vortex sounds cooler and gives a guessing game a better look.

Yeah that's why I use the term, LOL.

 

[Icy]

It's a Street Fighter (SF4) term to describe having multiple attack options after landing an untechable knockdown.

It's a term that honestly doesn't belong in DOA, though people use it a lot. How I've seen most people use the term, technically, everything could be considered a vortex in DOA once you stun someone or force tech them up. We use to call them 50/50 mix-ups but I guess calling it a vortex sounds cooler and gives a guessing game a better look.

Okay , i got it now. Thanks for that! Sorry for the off topic guys.

 

[David Gregg]

I don't know if his tier is final (I can't read through all 74 pages) or if it was changed from a C but I'm going to argue against Eliot's ranking and say that he's a B. If you spend enough time with him in 5 you realize just how effective he is. Here's some examples of his effective tools.
9 frame hit that annoys opponents to no end
helps control with spacing with the added benefit of punishes every now and then
great mix up and covers a decent amount of distance
also a great mix up kick that puts opponent in critical stun
covers great distance and sends your opponent flying back
also covers a great distance and causes a sit down
/ I can really get opponents to hate me with this mixup. They never know if I'll go for the 1 or 2 kick. There's also the added benefit of being a possible launcher.
fantastic move that can be used at many distances and at any time with practice (can be executed very fast)
another favorite that is lethal once you can get the timing down and a great way to avoid wake up kicks.
throws off the enemy who is expecting . Works most of the time if they try and counter
Throw with decent amount of damage and leaves opponent standing with you still being in a slightly more advantageous position
We all know this one. Infamous throw launcher that is deadly when used with an opponent against a wall.

 

[Allan Paris]

I don't know if his tier is final (I can't read through all 74 pages) or if it was changed from a C but I'm going to argue against Eliot's ranking and say that he's a B. If you spend enough time with him in 5 you realize just how effective he is. Here's some examples of his effective tools.

I don't main him but I know him well enough to know he's at the bottom (if the bottom is C tier) in this game.

9 frame hit that annoys opponents to no end

This move doesn't have any range, it is great poking tool when you land it. Unless your opponent stays dead smack in your face all day, good luck with landing it. Most characters don't need to be all that close to you to start their offense.

helps control with spacing with the added benefit of punishes every now and then

This move is just like Gen Fu's there's nothing special about it. There aren't any benefits that warrant great attention to this move.

great mix up and covers a decent amount of distance

This has one follow up for it, where's the mix up? It's also a low that can be SS, crushed, or held on reaction. If you land the kick the stun from it is not deep.

also a great mix up kick that puts opponent in critical stun

Then what???

covers great distance and sends your opponent flying back

This move is actually ok, it doesn't cover "great" distance, but a decent amount of distance... ok. You are a disadvantage when it's blocked too. This move greatest purpose would be to finish his damaging juggles so that he can pick up environmental damage from it.

also covers a great distance and causes a sit down

This move does not cover "great" distance the fact that you can buffer it in while dashing in is why it may seem like it has "great" distance. This move is also ok but nothing over the top to make him better than what he is.

/ I can really get opponents to hate me with this mixup. They never know if I'll go for the 1 or 2 kick. There's also the added benefit of being a possible launcher.

Both moves are high, lowing holding beats it as well as holding high. If you parry then the 1st kick is ok because it's guaranteed. Outside of using this move after a parry, the mix-up is not scary.

fantastic move that can be used at many distances and at any time with practice (can be executed very fast)

You do know that he is at -7 when the kick is blocked. You can be natural thrown (granted it's breakable). Grapplers can full on punish you for doing this move. I am sure more players block this move than getting hit by it.

another favorite that is lethal once you can get the timing down and a great way to avoid wake up kicks.

I use to think this move was good. After taking it into the lab, lol. If the first kick hits and doesn't knock down the 2nd kick can be held. You can't cancel the 2nd kick either. I was told that this move causes a frame trap for 7p when it's blocked. That is not true. Online it is a frame trap because of the delay, offline he can be jabbed before 7p hits.

throws off the enemy who is expecting . Works most of the time if they try and counter

I can't remember what this move looks like but I am sure it's not as great as you are making it out to be.

Throw with decent amount of damage and leaves opponent standing with you still being in a slightly more advantageous position

He's at +10 IIRC, nothing is guaranteed so this grab warrants nothing but guessing and more guessing which can go in your favor.... or not.

We all know this one. Infamous throw launcher that is deadly when used with an opponent against a wall.

Low holding beats this throw 100% of the time. Playing against someone smart you won't land this as much as you want. Smart players will force you to use his shitty low throws all day.


Edit: Out of all this, I find it funny that you didn't mention . Keep playing with him and find good players to play against. They'll exploit him, quickly.

 

[synce]

The current rankings seem about right except Lisa. No idea who was responsible for giving her all those bad MU's, I don't recall ANY character giving me trouble with her in 1.03, she's at least A-tier. Otherwise great list

 

[Zeo]

Is Hayate still so low after his 1.03A buffs? Still one of the single worst characters in the game?

 

[Brute]

The current rankings seem about right except Lisa. No idea who was responsible for giving her all those bad MU's, I don't recall ANY character giving me trouble with her in 1.03, she's at least A-tier. Otherwise great list

Lisa is tha bomb. I just recently started using her and I'm scrubby as hell, but my Lisa is already leagues better than my Ryu. It's crazy.

 

[Codemaster92163]

Allan Paris Would you mind helping me make a Pai match-up chart (if you haven't done so already)? I have my own opinions about things, of course, but I'd rather balance them out with another person's views.

 

[Allan Paris]

Allan Paris Would you mind helping me make a Pai match-up chart (if you haven't done so already)? I have my own opinions about things, of course, but I'd rather balance them out with another person's views.

Sure, which characters?

 

[Codemaster92163]

Practically all of them, haha. I'll send you a message with what I think her match-ups are, then just message me back what you think and what your opinions of the match-ups are.

 

[David Gregg]

I don't main him but I know him well enough to know he's at the bottom (if the bottom is C tier) in this game.

Edit: Out of all this, I find it funny that you didn't mention . Keep playing with him and find good players to play against. They'll exploit him, quickly.

Trust me, it was quite clear to me that you didn't main Eliot as you were so dismissive with almost all of these (which believe it or not they actually are more effective than your analyst mind believes). I think a problem with a lot of players is they want this to be a science. "well this has frame advantage", "this move isn't safe", yadadada. If it was that easy, you'd never see B-tier characters Helena and Bayman reach the finals of a DOA tournament (which they in fact did btw). On paper a lot of these moves sound sucky and yet they can still work if you know how and when to use them. Timing is everything and it does require a good ability of reading your opponents.

I may not be able to go up against a pro like Master but don't worry I've "found good players" to play against and I can certainly hold my own.

And see you've already contradicted yourself with after criticizing the saying that the range was too short. Anyway, thanks for the helpful tips but I hope that you can eventually find some good Eliot players to play against.

 

[Zeo]

I'm not going to go into a debate but what I will say is. Being good with a character doesn't make that character good. It makes you a good player.

Helena and Bayman are special cases because one has a more potent vortex than the rest of entire cast and the other is being played by a specialist that's been using him for almost a decade.

 

[Argentus]

Trust me, it was quite clear to me that you didn't main Eliot as you were so dismissive with almost all of these (which believe it or not they actually are more effective than your analyst mind believes). I think a problem with a lot of players is they want this to be a science. "well this has frame advantage", "this move isn't safe", yadadada. If it was that easy, you'd never see B-tier characters Helena and Bayman reach the finals of a DOA tournament (which they in fact did btw). On paper a lot of these moves sound sucky and yet they can still work if you know how and when to use them. Timing is everything and it does require a good ability of reading your opponents.

I may not be able to go up against a pro like Master but don't worry I've "found good players" to play against and I can certainly hold my own.

And see you've already contradicted yourself with after criticizing the saying that the range was too short. Anyway, thanks for the helpful tips but I hope that you can eventually find some good Eliot players to play against.

Good point. This is why my only real question is "Can I hit them with it, Yes or No?"

Like Mila's...overhead hook punch thingie. I have it on left trigger. I had someone telling me not to use that move, its useless because its unsafe, doesn't link into stuff, it's slow, etc....as I'm wrecking him with it by just...yaknow...hitting him with it. It's an overhead, I've found it very good for interrupting an opponent's advance.

 

[MrMoon360]

Like Mila's...overhead hook punch thingie. I have it on left trigger. I had someone telling me not to use that move, its useless because its unsafe, doesn't link into stuff, it's slow, etc....as I'm wrecking him with it by just...yaknow...hitting him with it. It's an overhead, I've found it very good for interrupting an opponent's advance.

Some people don't consider the range or priority of a move -- just the frame data to determine how good a move is. That's why Ayane may look mediocre on paper.. but anyone who plays a beast Ayane knows she's a pain to play footsies with.

 

[Brute]

lol just noticed Helena is in B tier

 

[Allan Paris]

I think a problem with a lot of players is they want this to be a science. "well this has frame advantage", "this move isn't safe", "what properties does this move have", "what type of stun does this move cause", "what does this move do on NH, CH, and HCH", yadadada.

I added a few more for you. Welcome to the mind of a logical high level player. From what I can do with the game makes me very difficult to deal with. Of course you don't have to do none of that and be fine playing this game, but it does help with reading into a character a lot better than just hitting the buttons with the boys.

If it was that easy, you'd never see B-tier characters Helena and Bayman reach the finals of a DOA tournament (which they in fact did btw). On paper a lot of these moves sound sucky and yet they can still work if you know how and when to use them. Timing is everything and it does require a good ability of reading your opponents.

Newsflash, my dude, ALL THE CHARATERS IN DOA CAN WIN A TOURNAMNET. It's how this game plays out overall that allows this. Zeo pretty much explained why you see the 2 characters you named in the finals for a tournament in doa5.

For the rest of the stuff... right, I know this. Yet the moves you listed are easily stopped and they are not going to exhaust a player. Nothing he has is extremely problematic.

I may not be able to go up against a pro like Master but don't worry I've "found good players" to play against and I can certainly hold my own.

You don't have to play against Manny (I hate this only his fucking name comes up when naming great players that play this game) to make sure something or a character is viable or not. It will help because the man is very good at the game but playing someone of his caliber really isn't necessary. A player who pays attention with a solid reaction will do just fine to pop Eliot.

I'm glad that you can hold your own, man. Good stuff.

And see you've already contradicted yourself with after criticizing the saying that the range was too short. Anyway, thanks for the helpful tips but I hope that you can eventually find some good Eliot players to play against.

Lol, granted the range is short but umm, it's a great SS killer, it causes an unholdable stagger stun, you can also put a decent scheme with it to stop players from moving recklessly. Most of all the move GUARANTEES him some nasty shit. Unlike any of his sit-down-stuns, which 3K, a move you named, goes into one of these useless sit-down-stuns.

I wish I still had the game and was willing to play it. I'd play you or let you point out an Eliot player that you think is great and I'll commence to go work.

I also have plenty more tips to give you if you are humble enough to learn.

For the sake of the thread, since you know things that the rest of us don't. Tell us why he is in B-tier in your eyes. I'm sorry, the moves you listed don't help his case all that much. Is it any more?

 

[FlamingMuffin]

Eliot is bottom tier, it's just how it is. His tools aren't overly scary compared to the rest of the cast. He has his i9, parries and a super launch throw. That's it really. Can he win? Of course, but that doesn't boost him to B. If he isn't in bottom tier, then who is?

 

[UncleKitchener]

I know that not many people play Bass or have played against Bass players, but how do you rate him. I just want to know some general opinion regarding Bass before we move onto Ultimate.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Is Hayate still so low after his 1.03A buffs?

Buffs?

 

[Zeo]

Buffs?

Well, remove the A. 1.03 buffs. All 1.03A did was remove one of the tools that potentially made him top tier.