Stuff that Ein could have in DOA5U

[crapoZK]

Alright guys. Seeing as Ein is coming back into the scene, he's maybe gonna have new stuff. I'm going to make a list for this. I will add some hit effects and guard effects with them as well.

1. In DOA4, Ein's had SDS on regular hit. This could stay the same, as well as having the new bound on counter or higher. Let's call that stun, the "Fall back stun/ FBS". It would be the only thing he has other than that sits down. Also, we could rev-up the damage on it, so when used in stun, it would take up more threshold, making a CB possible after it.
2. Hayate had a move removed in DOA5, if it is not given to him, you could give it to Ein, seeing as this attack was not "ninja-like" in a sense. This move was his . It would suit Ein very well. The inputs could be maybe? The properties would be regular hit on the , and stun on .
3. could do SDS on NH, and the FBS on CH or higher. Good idea? No?
   
4. I have realized that Ein doesn't have a string, or a at all, so I wanted to give him Hitomi's , mixed with his afterwards, with the inputs of .
5. Ein could have Hitomi's DOA4 , because it is a mix-up of his attack, (He had that string first) Which would be good for Ein, and since she doesn't have it anymore, well... You know...
6. I also believe that Hitomi doesn't have her . Ein could cop that. Inputs could be . Ein could cop her DOA4 that she no longer has. It should probably give him FBS on counter, but ground slam on NH.
7. His should still have FT properties.

 

[Zeo]

...I really am becoming the tech head for this guy... aren't I?

Alright guys. Seeing as Ein is coming back into the scene, he's maybe gonna have new stuff. I'm going to make a list for this. I will add some hit effects and guard effects with them as well.

1. In DOA4, Ein's had SDS on regular hit. This could stay the same, as well as having the new bound on counter or higher. Let's call that stun, the "Fall back stun/ FBS". It would be the only thing he has other than that sits down. Also, we could rev-up the damage on it, so when used in stun, it would take up more threshold, making a CB possible after it. could do SDS on NH, and the FBS on CH or higher. Good idea? No?

It's already been confirmed that Ein's causes a +26 (+17 at fastest SE) SDS on NH that guarantees his and it causes a FBS on CH and HCH which guarantees and . We don't know what else but there could be more possibilities once we take him to the lab.

2. Hayate had a move removed in DOA5, if it is not given to him, you could give it to Ein, seeing as this attack was not "ninja-like" in a sense. This move was his . It would suit Ein very well. The inputs could be maybe? The properties would be regular hit on the , and stun on .

I think you meant (The two low kicks). I posted this same suggestion in Takeda's "Ein for DOA5U" topic. You should really look through it and find my post. But the motion would make more sense as because Ein's animation is Identical to Hayate's original so it would make more sense.

If you really meant Hayate's actual from DOA4, It actually is in DOA5. He just lost the mid kick knockdown followup. In which case I don't think Ein needs it that much but it would give a nice mid followup option to his as right now he only has the 2nd low or a high GB (Guard Break). Still I'd prefer if it was just given back to Hayate.

3. could do SDS on NH, and the FBS on CH or higher. Good idea? No?

It's unknown what he properties of currently are. Hitomi's version of the move doesn't SDS on NH though so it's pretty safe to assume Ein's won't either. I can confirm that causes a FBS on CH though, so 8K might as well. My opinion though? It should SDS on NH and FBS on CH, same as .

4. I have realized that Ein doesn't have a string, or a at all, so I wanted to give him Hitomi's , mixed with his afterwards, with the inputs of

I don't really feel he needs this. The stun from the low would be nice but it would be ripping off Hitomi's and your 2nd idea would be blatantly stealing which Hayate does have in this game. If he were to get that spinning low punch he would need his own unique followup in my opinion. It would help his fairly mediocre low/crush game though.

5. Ein could have Hitomi's DOA4 , because it is a mix-up of his attack, (He had that string first) Which would be good for Ein, and since she doesn't have it anymore, well... You know...

Hitomi actually has this move in DOA5 in the form of But I agree Ein should get this option as well as Hitomi's and all it's combo ending variants. I'll be going to command training with Ein as soon as I get the game.

6. I also believe that Hitomi doesn't have her . Ein could cop that. Inputs could be . Ein could cop her DOA4 that she no longer has. It should probably give him FBS on counter, but ground slam on NH.

Again it would give Ein a good mid kick option off that low kick but I don't really feel it suits him. Better to just give the finishing punch back to Hitomi as well as the finisher to her new in the form of .

As for her DOA4 , I could definitely see it going to Ein. But I'd prefer to see it get an FBS on NH and a normal ground bounce on CH and HCH.

7. His should still have FT properties.

It doesn't. It's confirmed to be a simple launch on NH with guaranteed followup. A potential FT combo off of it would be nice though.

 

[crapoZK]

Alright. I completely agree with everything you said. On .7, I realized that FT's were nerfed as soon as I pressed post. Also, doesn't KK do FBS on NH???

For .6, FBS would work perfectly, because of the way the move looks.

 

[Zeo]

KK does FBS on NH, take advantage of that in stun as it's a string people won't see coming. CH > > does 102 damage.

6. The FBS on CH would look cooler, but I just think the ground bounce would be better from a gameplay perspective.

 

[crapoZK]

6. The FBS on CH would look cooler, but I just think the ground bounce would be better from a gameplay perspective.

I see where you are coming from on that one. Ground bounce on CH would be more "Toned down" because if it had FBS on all hits, it would cause a ton of rage and the word "Nerf" being tossed about like an American Football.

 

[crapoZK]

Like what happens with many other characters if they have a good tool.

 

[TakedaZX]

Giving it the FBS tag isn't necessary. It's heavy bound, but anyway the reason they made 8p a heavy bound was to work with the new bounds while also giving him a mid punch launcher to rely on in stun. It'll probably be fine as is.

I don't think Ein really deserves Hayate's 2KK as much. Maybe his 1K2K but at that point I have some ideas for Hayate's 1K to get that mix-up factor back on it (slightly).

I think 8K, 1KK, 4PKK and 4PPK all launch on CH+ which is fine with me for all of those except 8K. If Ein's 3k was 13i again, I'd vote +15 on 8K (for the 50/50 on the 13i launcher or deep stun from 3p) and for it to always stun. This would be his go to SD stun since he already has a good amount of bounds (KK, 8P). I don't even think it's a heavy bound right now though. But if the situation is 16i for 4K, it'd rather it be +17 so that he at the least gets 33K which... might not be wall friendly, but at that point he'll at least have 3P at max threshold, or 9P BT cancel pp6pk, or even 33K, W! 3P, 6KK.

Last time I checked Ein should have Hitomi's 1P, in fact if I remember correctly, he had it first.

If Ein needs anything, he needs DOA4 status speeds, P+K as his burst instead of 6p+k, 8K SD stun only status (ground bounce on threshold break), 1KK/4PKK/4PPK's heights increased to DOA at threshold break, BT P switched to BT 7P so that he can juggle straight out of 9P with pp6pk or at least a solid mid punch launcher (I understand what they were trying with 8P but... it's not good enough to rely on outside of a mix-up in stun. I'd feel more confident if they scrapped 9P and gave him Hitomi's 33P in some way.

I don't think I need to explain why those need to be in... also I don't want to again, but just hit me up if you need the explanation and I'll do it.

 

[Tenryuga]

If we find no ways around Ein's mediocre close combat skills here are my requested buffs.
First off changes to existing moves:

- Added tracking to second kick.

- Knockback changed to bound status.

- Speed increased to i13 or i14. It can remain unsafe as hell.

- Advantage increased from +2 to +5. It really should be more than +5 but we all know how whiny this community (in both USA and Japan) is. +5 is probably pushing it to them.

- Advantage increased to +3.

- Charge reduced to Hayate level speed and frame advantage reduced from +8 to +3 minimum and +4 maximum. I'm obviously vouching for +4 but again I'm not trying to make people think I'm trying to create this super godlike character.

- Knockback changed to bound status and added tracking to the kick.

- Changed to CB status.

- Reverted to original status of i14. It can stay unsafe and even be i15 or i16 the slowest. Just do not keep it as his CB.

- Advantage increased from +2 to +5 - +10 so that it is harder to disrespect him.

- Damage increased from 66 to 70.

- Damage increased from 35 to 40 - 42.


Now for new stuff:

- Add some form of tracking option that is not a high after this point. This helps his issues with crush abusers and SS during pressure.

- New string that is a jab into his 3P. The kick has the same properties as the one from the
string. This is another way to deal with his weakness to crushes and SS during pressure.

- Standalone version of the above string.

- i15 - i17 tracking low sweep chop that is similar to Makoto's from SF 3rd strike and SSFIV. No more than -4 on hit.

- This should become Hitomi status and get all the followups has. Honestly if I get most of the other things I want I could care less about this getting the followups but it's still something that can be added.

This is all I believe he needs to be a complete character.

 

[TakedaZX]

If we find no ways around Ein's mediocre close combat skills here are my requested buffs.
First off changes to existing moves:

- Added tracking to second kick.
Check.

- Knockback changed to bound status.
Check.

- Speed increased to i13. It can remain unsafe as hell.
Check.

- Advantage increased from +2 to +5. It really should be more than +5 but we all know how whiny this community (in both USA and Japan) is. +5 is probably pushing it to them.
Check.

- Advantage increased to +3.
Check.

- Charge reduced to Hayate level speed and frame advantage reduced from +8 to +3 minimum and +4 maximum. I'm obviously vouching for +4 but again I'm not trying to make people think I'm trying to create this super godlike character.
Check.

- Knockback changed to bound status and added tracking to the kick.
The knockback is fine as it is in this combo since if they don't tech you get a free well-timed 1K like with the 2H+K knockdown. I'll take the bound though np.

- Changed to CB status.
SWAG!

- Reverted to original status of i14. It can stay unsafe and even be i15 or i16 the slowest. Just do not keep it as his CB.
SWAG!

- Advantage increased from +2 to +5 - +10 so that it is harder to disrespect him.
Somewhere in that range would be nice. His shit isn't Hitomi's 3H+K or 6H+K. It's a lot more unsafe to whiff and also still slow.

- Damage increased from 66 to 70.
It's wonder why this isn't the case already. He needs to bait throws anyway just to get some extreme damage. His mid kick stuns aren't very good so he can't just stun to launch you without 3KK, 6P, 3P or P.

- Damage increased from 35 to 40 - 42.
Yea he needs some damage from this.



Now for new stuff:

- New string that is a jab into his 3P. The kick has the same properties as the one from the
string.
I can imagine P6PP, which would be P, 3P, 236P sorta like PP[P] with the charge but the kick seems a bit awkward to imagine.

- Standalone version of the above string.

- i15 - i17 tracking low sweep chop that is similar to Makoto's from SF 3rd strike and SSFIV. No more than -4 on hit.
Yes.

- This should become Hitomi status and get all the followups has.
Yes.

This is all I believe he needs to be a complete character.

He's built for a DOA2 system right now with some DOA5 stuff. This has to change for sure.

@Tenryuga

I'd add 3K2K, 6K2K, and 1KK/4P2KK guard breaks to the line up.

3K2K is almost self-explanatory. 3K to a sweep kick to keep the pressure going. Ein lacks the ability to keep putting out mid to low pressure like Hitomi. His only string for it is H+K2K which isn't bad either but there's no other mix-up factor there. This gives the opponent a reason to wait before just sidestepping or just whacking buttons out of the mix-up.

6K2K is pretty much the same case but the low kick won't be a tracking one. It'll be a low stomp kick for a little bit of frame advantage. +11 with no SE.


1KK guard breaks will help with his pressure where as not to increase his mix-up more than it needs to be, but to give him some actual guard pressure within the strings. The guard breaks don't have to make the move actually safe. I wouldn't mind the guard stun still making it only -9 (as long as 1KK's recovery was still the same), but the point of the guard break is push back to get you off of him basically.

4P2KK would function the same. This way, it'd make it to where you probably don't need 4P2K6P~. The necessity for those seems like it'd only be tracking (if they decided to give him that considering he doesn't have as much tracking as most characters).

Also add BT 1K6P2K tracking. Apparently TN forgot something... again...

 

[Tenryuga]

So I've been thinking and have reconsidered my ideas. The kick from 66PK does not need to bound it just needs to track. He doesn't need any of the strings I listed; just a string with some form of mid tracking. A fast standalone safe tracking low is a must. Everything else I asked for still stands. I think Ein is good now and would be complete with those changes. Anything else should be Icing on the cake.

 

[JAG THE GEMINI]

He needs a tracking 1P.

6P+K should be at least 16i.

His sweep from sidestep should cause a knockdown like in the old days.

His OH´s should do at least 5 poinst more damage.

Special mid kick hold like Hitomi and Hayate.

His 9PK should be a wall combo ender like it is in Hayates case.

With this he would be really fine.

 

[TakedaZX]

He needs a tracking 1P.

6P+K should be at least 16i.

His sweep from sidestep should cause a knockdown like in the old days.

His OH´s should do at least 5 poinst more damage.

Special mid kick hold like Hitomi and Hayate.

His 9PK should be a wall combo ender like it is in Hayates case.

With this he would be really fine.

I think you mean a trip stun for his sweep. I think you're right but I'm definitely on for his CB being swapped to P+K.

I really think he should be completely advanced though. Not pushed up to Hitomi status but given a bit more tools and freedom to play around and pressure. Here's my list.

http://takedazxdoa.blogspot.com/

Without the stun game freedom that DOA4 allowed, he's gotta take a step up whether TN wants him to be the same or not, or he's never going to be able to run a near equal game with people like Helena, Rachel, and Ayane.

I think you might enjoy the 46H idea Jag.

 

[JAG THE GEMINI]

I really like your ideasTakeda. Especially the ideas for new holds, sounds really good!

Let´s just hope that something of the things we want comes in a patch or update soon.