Pai

[RhythmikDesigns]

With DrDogg stating that Akira and Sarah moveset and execution are identical to VF5:FS, I'm assuming it will also be true for Pai. And after looking at Pai's movelist, I'm definitely going be trying her out in DOA. For the pros out there, do you think she could be a possible counter to Helena? Their styles look kind of similar to me.

Edit: By the way these aren't my vids, just the some that I saw on SRK. I thought I might as well post Akira and Sarah movelists too since I posted Pai's, just to give an idea of what may be possible in DOA. I'm not a VF player at all but damn Sarah looks like a dope character to play.

 

[Baron West]

Even if the execution is the same, the question remains whether or not the frame data is. Aside from being relatively fast and somewhat tricky, Pai has solid safe mids in VF. The question remains how safe those mids will be in the DOA5 universe.

Guestimating...Pai doesn't strike me as a counter to Helena. Strictly speaking her Bokuho(bokutai) is inferior to Helena's which can go lower, has movement, and possesses numerous strike options, as well as the ability to throw. Akira seems like a much more difficult opponent for Helena. Pai might give Hitomi problems, but ultimately...it's too early to know, and speculation is limited.

VF characters playing in the new DOA5 engine is going to be a drastic change for any VF players, as the DOA5 engine is already a notable departure for experienced DOA players.

I'd expect VirtuaPai to have an interesting take on how Pai will fare.

 

[DrDogg]

DOA doesn't really have counter picks so... yeah.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Even if the execution is the same, the question remains whether or not the frame data is.

It probably isnt ..
been using sarah in FS
I was looking for the 5 framer kick from flamingo stance that rikuto and dogg mentioned in the E3 build .. and couldnt find it in showdown ..(If you guys are reading this can you please tell me the input and what it looks like ? I'll do a comparison with VF5:FS )

also .. standing jab in general is around 10 frames in DOA.. sara's is a bit slower in the game .. but then again the whole game is kinda slower by a few frames ...

so i doubt the frame data will be the same .. and im not sure how that will impact the just frame moves ...(sarah has quite a few)

 

[Game Over]

DOA doesn't really have counter picks so... yeah.

The way DOA5 is shaping up, counter picks could come to play some role. Granted, it will still not be as pronounced as in other fighters. But elements should be there to distinguish variety between characters in the style of play they excel at.

EX. Some characters would excel at applying up-close pressure and controlling the pace of the match, some characters would excel at baiting reckless attacks and parrying/evading/punishing them, some characters would excel at stunning the opponent and throw-punishing unsafe (vs grapplers) attacks and holds for high damage, etc., etc.

IMO, the game wouldn't see anything like 7-3 matchups or 8-2 matchups, but would see certain 5-5, 5.5-4.5, 6-4 matchups that would be more about changing the flow of the match in an attempt to find the player's weak matchup rather than the character's weak matchup.

 

[Allan Paris]

Everything you just said further proves that, 'DOA doesn't really have counter picks so... yeah.'

 

[Game Over]

Fair enough. lol

I suppose in tournaments, though, I just feel like the player capable of playing multiple characters at a competitive level will have an advantage over a single-character specialist, as he/she is able to approach the match with different looks. I agree that finding a favorable matchup against a given player isn't the same as a hard counter-pick like what's seen in other fighters.

 

[Allan Paris]

Nahh, there will be plenty of 1 trick ponies in tournament play. They will do just fine against a jack of all trades. If one knows how their character fairs against the whole cast, along with knowing how to apply themselves correctly. Those two types of players will stand on even ground.

 

[Hurricane Rev]

Pai seems like a really cool character and I will have a go with her tomorrow just to see how she is like. Also, I slightly mistook Pai for another character in VF.

 

[DR2K]

3D fighters in general aren't as "counter pick" friendly as 2D fighters. I mean characters do have small advantages and disadvantages. For example someone like Christie is does better up close and has an easier time putting on pressure against characters with slower normals.

Theatoretically if Pai is mid based and Helena retains her evasive properties than it would definitely be a match up in favor of Helena. But is Helena going to be able to hold down back and mash sonic booms while Pai's only chance of getting in rests on the player making a mistake because she can't do anything from the opposite end of the screen isn't going to happen.

 

[Game Over]

Nahh, there will be plenty of 1 trick ponies in tournament play. They will do just fine against a jack of all trades. If one knows how their character fairs against the whole cast, along with knowing how to apply themselves correctly. Those two types of players will stand on even ground.

While I can agree with this if the specialist is prepared for every matchup effectively, the advantage (however small) I'm referring to for the versatile player comes into play when the specialist is not effectively prepared for a particular matchup and this gets exposed. I would think that while there will likely be a lot of players playing one character, not all of them will have put in the time and work to be THAT solid. This would be evident below high level. At high level, then yeah, matchups don't matter as much anymore and it's more about one player outplaying the other.

But this is now going too much into theory. Continue thread ...

 

[JohnS]

DOA doesn't really have counter picks so... yeah.

Wow people started listening to Dr Dogg's advices about DOA techniques. That's a good start.

Yes at least in DOA4 there are definitely counter picks, though not as significant as other games due to the universal countering system. There are for sure quite a few 7 - 3 match-ups.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Fair enough. lol

I suppose in tournaments, though, I just feel like the player capable of playing multiple characters at a competitive level will have an advantage over a single-character specialist, as he/she is able to approach the match with different looks. I agree that finding a favorable matchup against a given player isn't the same as a hard counter-pick like what's seen in other fighters.

Manny begs to differ.

 

[Berzerk!]

That will change as the player base grows post release.

 

[Game Over]

Manny begs to differ.

Not against PL. lol

Jokes aside, I elaborated on the point in a post above.

 

[UncleKitchener]

"Yeah, man, everybody can beat everybody in this game."
"Sorry dude, Bass' slowness and lack of good tools against ninjas and fast characters is a major disadvantage."
"No dude, this character gets beat up by everyone in this game. His only good matchup is against another Bass."


Also, mark my words; the VF characters will dominate this game.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

"Yeah, man, everybody can beat everybody in this game."
"Sorry dude, Bass' slowness and lack of good tools against ninjas and fast characters is a major disadvantage."
"No dude, this character gets beat up by everyone in this game. His only good matchup is against another Bass."


Also, mark my words; the VF characters will dominate this game.

if what they're saying stays till the final build..
the fact that he has alot of sitdown stuns is gonna make him quite a huge threat in a totally different way ..

plus he has his doa 3 launcher back.. and height restriction for air throws is alot less ..

without playing him .. just by hearing that I can tell you bass is gonna be a beast!

 

[NightAntilli]

Pai's style is Mizongyi, which has drawn influences from TaijiQuan (Lei-Fang), PiquaQuan(Helena) and Shaolin. So the resemblance with Helena is not incorrect.

I've been using Pai since VF5FS came out. If she plays the same in DOA5, she will be hard to deal with. Same goes for Akira and Sarah though.. VF characters seem to be very well-rounded.. Whether she's a good counter to Helena.. No idea. We haven't seen the new Helena yet, but, Pai can very easily go low, so Helena's stance might not get its full use against her.

 

[virtuaPAI]

I foresee Pai making a very smooth Transition into the Doa universe. She has a very good mix of both offensive and defensive options...but is more on the offensive side. She has above average speed(in the VF universe) and will be more on the average side in the doa universe. There is a speed difference between that of Vf and Doa, So Pai and cast will have a speed boost. Things like fuzzy guarding, crouch dashing, ducking will happen 2-3 frames faster in Doa. Not to forget that Characters in the Doa world get no command throw breaks, and throws being roughly on 3 tiers. This alone will make Pai a different Character from her Final Showdown Counter part.