System My biggest problem with the game.

[StrikerSashi]

This is by far my biggest complaint about DOA. Let's see if everyone agree. It's the stupid R1F mechanics. Allowing movement before the start of a round just makes it into a dumb rps situation from the start. It can work in some 2D games because the faster movement makes it harder to stay on someone, but it's ridiculous in DOA.

If someone wants to start the round next to you, it's so hard to get them off of you before the round starts. You're forced to play an extremely limited rps that favors certain characters over others. If I'm playing Ein vs Gen Fu, why does every round start in Gen Fu's advantage (the joke is that it's always in Gen Fu's advantage)? Even in high level matches, it's not uncommon to see a game played almost completely in 6P range. It's beyond silly and makes life a lot harder for characters and players who's strengths are good spacing.

What are everyone's opinions on this?

 

[Tokkosho]

i'd be fine without it as long as they adjust starting points so another person doesnt have the advantage of a slope or stage hazard

 

[RoboJoe]

I totally agree with you. It's really dumb. My guess is they made it like that because I assume Scramble was the first stage they finished and 2P starts with their back to the generator in that level. Though you can say it's even because 1P starts near the bucket, it seems TN doesn't feel that way.

 

[Matt Ponton]

"They made it like that" because it's been the way the game plays since DOA1, or at least DOA2. My memories escape me to be 100% accurate. I'm fairly sure it was like that in DOA1.

Not saying that should be a reason for it not to change, just saying it's always been a 'unique' attribute to the game.

 

[CyberEvil]

With the environment being a factor there really isn't any good reason to not allow free movement. It's also not the only 3D fighter to do it.

 

[synce]

I don't like this either but I feel DOA has even bigger problems

 

[Tenryuga]

I don't think the issue is really the movement its more so the positioning. Player 2 almost always gets shafted when it comes to it. Sure you can just move out of the way but its not like Player 1 can't move with you and try to sanwhich you somewhere else.

As for R1F that is true that some characters are forced into unfavorable positions at the start of a match but if you remove the movement and have characters start let's say just outside of jab range that doesn't exactly balance things either. In some cases you will be stuck in a shitty position without the ability to do anything about it.

 

[TLEE SAID THIS:]

I don't know how to feel about this. Other games don't have it and the only game I know that has it is DOA, which I think is unique. It personally doesn't bother me, but if it's really as big of a problem, then I don't know what to think.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Positioning is one of the biggest factors and strategies in DOA. Positioning and the environment makes a difference at R1F and at neutral during a match. Blocking and fuzzy guarding are your best friends at R1F. Having the first strike should not always be your objective at R1F.

 

[StrikerSashi]

That's my point, though. You can't limit the other guy's positioning before the round starts. When the round starts, you can actually position yourself and punish the other guy for greedy movement. Before that, someone who wants to move in close can do so without any risk. If you're saying to sidewalk to avoid environmental hazards, then both players know to do that and they just end up moving closer to each other because of the constant sidewalking without significantly changing the starting positioning. I want movement in the game to have more risks and rewards.

 

[Brute]

The problems with R1F in this game are more closely tied to characters' tools and not really the movement principle in general, imo. This is especially when one considers things like Scramble. If I start as P2, the first thing I do is immediately hammer down 2.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Yeah, but the other guy's gonna see that and you end up rotating a tiny amount and the sidewalking moves you into each other. I agree that there's some P1/P2 bias on certain stages, but if you're allowed to move before the round actually starts, they have an excuse to not fix it.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I've learned from playing my teammate Requiem, that movement (camera trick angles etc etc) are just part of the strategy during R1F (I already knew this but I've learned how to use it neutrally and against him). You're not supposed to fear what someone else can possibly do just because they decide to bulldog you at R1F. All you need to do is just pick your position at R1F, and make sure where you stand is secure enough with everything "around you".

Worrying about someone wanting to be in my face at R1F is the last thing on my mind.

 

[Brute]

How would they theoretically fix it? By altering every stage to be symmetrical with all hazards mirrored on both sides to be "fair"? That would be lame, imo.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I've learned from playing my teammate Requiem, that movement (camera trick angles etc etc) are just part of the strategy during R1F (I already knew this but I've learned how to use it neutrally and against him). You're not supposed to fear what someone else can possibly do just because they decide to bulldog you at R1F. All you need to do is just pick your position at R1F, and make sure where you stand is secure enough with everything "around you".

Worrying about someone wanting to be in my face at R1F is the last thing on my mind.

Can you expand on the everything around you part? I don't think I understand what you mean.

As for not being scared of what people rushing at you, it's not that I'm scared. It's that I can't punish them for it. Spacing is important and it's pretty much always in the favor characters who benefit from being point blank for the first few seconds of the round. When I read what a lot of DOA players write, it seems to me that they consider neutral as being in each other's face when no one has frame advantage. I find an issue with that 'cause it's as if spacing is not even considered. I can't blame them too much, though, 'cause some rounds, there isn't any spacing to be done.

How would they theoretically fix it? By altering every stage to be symmetrical with all hazards mirrored on both sides to be "fair"? That would be lame, imo.

If I had to implement a fix, I'd probably rotate the starting positions so that no one has their back to any dangerous hazards and lock movement before the round starts.

EDIT:

I don't have a problem with characters that can stay on someone, for the record, but I have a problem when they can get in the first time pretty much for free.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Can you expand on the everything around you part? I don't think I understand what you mean.

I'm basically saying you have to pay attention to where you and your opponent stand during the R1F, because that actually does matter. A lot of the time I am planning accordingly about where I want my opponent on the stage, thus leaves me "deciding" on what launcher I'll use for corner/wall carry. Because that's important with Ayane's play. It's important to pay attention to where you are during the match in general. Which leads me to my original point about positioning on the stage and environment, "know where you stand".

As for not being scared of what people rushing at you, it's not that I'm scared. It's that I can't punish them for it. Spacing is important and it's pretty much always in the favor characters who benefit from being point blank for the first few seconds of the round. When I read what a lot of DOA players write, it seems to me that they consider neutral as being in each other's face when no one has frame advantage. I find an issue with that 'cause it's as if spacing is not even considered. I can't blame them too much, though, 'cause some rounds, there isn't any spacing to be done.

Whenever I talk about neutral, I am talking about the amount of space between players. Whether it be in CQC or mid range (I don't talk about fullscreen because no character can do anything at fullscreen, this isn't a 2D fighter). Me being as influential on spacing and footsies, I actually know what a neutral is.

Also, yeah it's true some characters with speed will benefit from being in your face at R1F, some will not. It's not perfect, but it is befitting with the concept of environmental hazards and positioning being a big strategic part of DOA. You just have to decide "where do I want to move before I decide to strike or block or hold?"

Throwing at R1F is risky due to hi counter hits. And holding will only work when you realize your opponent is always trigger happy. At the end of it all though, this isn't exactly that big of a problem for R1F, because this will occur during the match nonetheless. Characters like Bass and Ein, for example, just have to be more patient. Which is generic for some characters any way. Some characters are allowed to be "Rawr I can hit you first haha trololol", others have to be patient. And patience is key in this game, whether people want to believe it or not.

 

[Pictured Mind]

I like it. It makes it fair for the player who is at the shitty part of the stage, so they can walk away from whatever they're scared of.

If the match starts and you're playing against a fast character and you're scared of them being in your face before the round even starts, you should block and punish (or go for a risky hold). It's not like there are characters who have a guaranteed advantage at the start.

It also lets you do a taunt or some bokuho ducks at the start. I like this system.

 

[Awesmic]

I'm probably gonna get a lot of hate for this idea, but I would like to see an option to enable or disable movement before R1F. Stage specific, if need be.

 

[StrikerSashi]

If the match starts and you're playing against a fast character and you're scared of them being in your face before the round even starts, you should block and punish (or go for a risky hold). It's not like there are characters who have a guaranteed advantage at the start.

You're forced into a situation where you have less options than the opponent. That's exactly what an advantage is.

 

[Allan Paris]

@Mr. Wah I don't think you can move in DOA1, I know it was a few years ago when we played but I don't think I could rush you down R1F in DOA1. I recall just standing there until we could fight. Though I may be mistaken.

If Team Ninja disabled movement R1F I'd be fine with that. If they don't disable it then, ok.

If I had to choose which one, I'd disable it and only allow free step movement, characters won't be able to run or advance forward, it would be a true neutral situation without forcing players to be dry humped by faster characters that are equipped with parries/crushing abilities/evasiveness, and better zoning characters can't run and get the advantage over the close range characters.

The majority that play game that value how it "feels" will go in an uproar if movement is disabled so we will be stuck with how it is because the majority like the way it is.


EDIT: The only reason I would allow free step movement is for the simple fact that this game does a piss poor job at positioning player 2 in some cases. If the positioning of player 2 was fixed I wouldn't mind having the movement completely disabled.