Skilletor
Active Member
Yes? This and other posts where he said he can tell when somebody free cancels a string and it's easy to react to even online.
DOA5 E3 Version Q&A
- Thread starter DrDogg
- Start date
Yes? This and other posts where he said he can tell when somebody free cancels a string and it's easy to react to even online.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
I just said, it didn't require guessing like he suggested, not that it was consistent. I said it the post before, it gets taxing having to do it over and over because it's every time. It ends up being inconsistent. Completely removing string delay posses other problems because everything is negative on block. The game would need to give advantage somewhere.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
It should be pretty clear by now that you can't just make a single change to the game and leave it. Any change will have to be balanced. If you remove string delays, you need to make more attacks safe.
Although even without the string delays being removed, I still would like to see more safe attacks. No fighting game should ever have 90% of the attacks be unsafe. That's not even an exaggeration in the E3 build. Out of Zack's roughly 80 attacks, I counted 9 that were safe... and most of those were high attacks at the end of a combo.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
Like 7 frame throw safe? Or safe 5/4 frame breakable throw safe? Unless you mean guard breaks and plus frame moves.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
For sure. I felt like I should reiterate because things I say are taken out of context I guess.
Edit: My original thinking was if the delay was tightened up a bit or kept specific to select strings and certain pokes were given advantage it wouldn't matter so much. Something everyone would possibly be happier with.
Edit: My original thinking was if the delay was tightened up a bit or kept specific to select strings and certain pokes were given advantage it wouldn't matter so much. Something everyone would possibly be happier with.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Zack only had 9 attacks that were -6 or better... out of ~80.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
Wow. I have another question if you dont mind. Like with the breakable single throws. Do they give anybody frames on break? Iam just curious because Since Ryu (At least in the @ build) Had that 4 frame throw and was considered a grappler. If he gets plus frames on break its gonna make some matchups kinda hard. I would have tested this myself but Iam a bit limited atm. Since you guys have played the new build might as well get current info.
The HuBBs
Active Member
I don't think the world can handle the words I have for anything CGS related.
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Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
I am not DrDogg or Rikuto but, I do know this. Bayman gets an advantage if you break his chain throws. How much of an advantage he gets, I don't know. As far as neutral throws being broken that should be leaving both players at a neutral stand-off.
AKNova7
Active Member
I agree with you, sure, that definitely has to be rebalanced. At the same time, string delays do need to go, even if it would require re-balance of the game. There should definitely be just a little bit of safety. I mean, when I use Ayane, I have some great dodge moves, but I can't set anybody up to have to get around them as an obstacle except when I'm jabbing because my entire stable of moves is just so unsafe. Now, personally, I'd love for her to take a damage nerf to get some safety. Even though she did less damage, I'd take that deal, because it's not like I can hold when I have my back turned, so it'd be nice to be able to defend myself.
9 out of 80 is stupid though. Every character should at least have SOME safe attacks to work with.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
More safe moves and more moves that give +frames on block besides guard breaks. Most of the moves in the alpha build were either barely safe, 0 frames on block, or +1. So only my jab comes out faster unless we both decide to do 6P.
AKNova7
Active Member
You know, my personal worry about this game is that if everything is unsafe, no one will want to attack, since direction throws are unbreakable. Everything not only SHOULD be safer, but NEEDS to be safer in DOA.
I don't necessarily want moves that give + frames on block, but that's only because traps like that are even more annoying to deal with because of the stupid string delay system. I want moves that are -1, -2. On block, giving you time to, you know, move, instead of only blocking.
I don't necessarily want moves that give + frames on block, but that's only because traps like that are even more annoying to deal with because of the stupid string delay system. I want moves that are -1, -2. On block, giving you time to, you know, move, instead of only blocking.
Rikuto
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Sagittarius
Member
Does this same rule apply to Leifang, Kokoro and Tina who also have chain throws?
d3v
Well-Known Member
You do realize that you just contradicted yourself there because the most basic definition of safe is a move that gives + frames on block.
Also, you've got it wrong. Safe moves (+ frames on block) promote attacking (and offense in general) because they mean that there's less risk involved when you do attack.
-He liked my post and he also made a logical deduction of your post and showed how you was incorrect as well. Sorwah made an assessment of you post and found it to be incorrect. Resting your case made no such dent in the argument that you have made. You are still incorrect.
-Once again, the fault lies with you. Have it not occurred to you that you are at +12. You can go for any attack up to 21 frames and you will beat out every single attack your opponent execute. With that said, a counter blow launcher can grant punishment 30% and more. You can go for a knock down/back and get both frame advantage, position advantage and still apply pressure. You are not short of options here. Your only other choice is not a holdable stun, in fact, you have enough frame advantage to use attacks that force an un-holdable situation. You are simply not taking advantage of the tools that is being provided to you.
-Safe in 3D fighters mean a move that you cannot be punished for after it is executed. So If I say for EX Kasumi's
is safe on block/hit, it means that my opponent will not get a guaranteed attack or throw against it.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
In DOA 4 I think Bayman only has about 5 safe attacks. Some of his attacks are actually unsafe on normal hit (for example 6pp2k)
Of those five safe moves I use ONE regularly because the other ones are so stupid hard to land or get anything decent out of. The rest of the time I'm just creating false pressure with delays/free cancels, praying my opponent is ignorant, and taking the required punishment like a man when I'm up against someone good.
He's still pretty unsafe in DOA 5, but the rest of his game is so good now that I can pretty much laugh it off. The addition of a couple of frame advantage attacks helps too.
But yea, I am definitely self-trained in the art of attacking at disadvantage and just not giving a damn about the repercussions. Most people are not though, and that's a problem. It is a very, very, very eccentric way to fight.
What you people can get out of this is that if string delay is nerfed, I (as a player) am also nerfed. Still pushing for it because it's the right call.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
As of E3, DOA5 is set up so that you play by using string delays to gain a false sense of frame advantage. Then you have a mix-up at the end of your string to determine if you're going to free cancel or go for the unsafe string ender. It's a problem to say the least.
You're making too many assumptions, and they're incorrect assumptions at that.
I cannot use any attack up to i21. I already stated that there's enough push back on the attack that my options are limited. In addition, most of the attacks in the game are unsafe, which means I risk getting punished if I use just any random attack. What you're suggesting is that I play a potentially risky game. Why should I put myself at risk after being at +12? That's ridiculous.
And I don't see how it's an unholdable situation. Seems to me like you simply don't understand the situation, despite the fact that I've clearly explained it at this point.