DOA5U Phase 4 match video and critique thread

[tokiopewpew]

You can't hold bait the AI. It will hold once it knows you've input something, and if it knows you've input a throw it will either fuzzy or hiC strike you.

You notice that this is excactly what helps you not to do the same stuff over and over? Against a good human player you also won't be allowed to do 6P2K all day, because he simply will hold that sooner or later. So when it is that easy to notice when it will go for a hold or strike, why did you say you get held all the time before?

Also, I said playing the AI is good for newcomers to solidify their setups and get the idea of how the characters work and are supposed to fight, not that it's the same like playing against more experienced human players who know how to play mind games as well.

I just gave ZeroBeat the recommendation to play the AI based on how I estimate his level of play due to watching his videos. I did this because I thought he did not seem to know when to use which moves best or better at least and seemed to lack on basic knowledge about when to block or attack.

You did contrariwise based on the fact that the AI would cheat like crazy and is easy to exploit, which has actually nothing to do with the reason why I gave him this recommendation, since all your statements are about improving the ability for winning mind games against human players. You can't win a lot against those when you are putting yourself into unnecessarily awkward situations by your own actions and mess up stuff in situations were you could get good and easy damage due to wrong input. To hold bait someone is something you can try to do when you are solid in the things that help you to do so and the things you can do after being successfull with it.

"mix up better" I love that advice.

You really should love that advice because when I take a look your 2nd replay, I would say that your spacing game lacks of mixup a lot too. It does not need a clairvoyan to know that when you do a 7P, you will come back in right after it with 3P+K. You may have noticed by yourself, you got blown up for it almost every time.

 

[Zero Beat]

Your assessment of my defense is accurate. I'm relearning the fundamentals.

 

[Zero Beat]

I'm fighting the AI to learn defense. I got into some bad habits during my survival runs and need to unlearn them.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Why on earth would you take what I clearly said about fighting the AI and think I'm talking about actual play? I said mixing up against the AI (which is what I sarcastically said I love, not mixing up against people. Mixup against real opponents is essential) is not good enough because it is still reading your inputs. As to the 6P2K, reread what I said

I don't need to reread because I understood it already before. You point was that it will be held immediately the first time you'll use it although you did not use any low for a long time before. I just used 6P2K too since you already mentioned it and I think it is a good example for Kasumi's lows that are used often. I could have also mentioned PP2K.

I can go ten minutes without using any low trips which includes 6P2K, then use it and be held.

So how often does that happen to you? Once? Twice? I doubt always. 6P2K is a combination Kasumi is known for since it's one of her pressure tools, therefore a real human player with good reactions could also hold that the first time you would use it on him. And if TN has programmed the AI to react to such strings too or with a higher chance (who knows), then it will hold this. Again, the AI may need to read your input sometimes to be a challenge, since it can't read your mind like a human. Therefore, bad luck, period.

Considering this is a video critique thread and not a "does the AI teach you how to play the game" thread, this whole argument should probably be cleaned up and gotten rid of.

Agreed. I (and other readers here maybe too) was wondering about your statement, the AI wouldn't help you to improve. We had to go a bit more into detail, because "it cheats like crazy" is a very peculiar reason, at least for me. In the end, everyone has to decide on his own if it helps him.

 

[Chapstick]

Deleted everything. Will try to get some good replays soon to contribute more to this thread.

 

[misamia303]

This is one of the first matches I had with her online when she first came out. I was a bit unsafe and didn't really know what I was doing, but any advice/critique is welcomed.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

That was great! Most players don't play Phase 4 in space (Most don't play Alpha or Kasumi in space either) There is a overview and critique of Phase 4 and the word that kept being repeated was "Unsafe!" (If you played me, you will not like me! I'm not kidding!!)

Most players like to go {B]immediately[/B] with the 2 in 1 MMH (H is the 2 in 1) CB, then that's when the "light show" begins! However, I can easily mentally exhaust them just by blocking and they begin to play her like Kasumi (Oboro, 8T. 236T + Combo, etc.) Yet, the teleport game sees very heavy reliance; this was a bad characteristic that TN should have known would get run into the ground (and this comes from "expert" players.)

I honestly don't think that's what the teleporting was meant for just like Alpha's not meant to kick (: ) all damn day! (That's the famous complaint, that gets one called an "Alpha noob!") You were very smart not to rely on teleporting so much making her seem like a real character.

If I have one critique, it's that you didn't throw enough (but the Leon player didn't throw you either). Just normal throws not the teleport one. Overall, I think that is something a lot of players who play strike characters don't do; yet, I see throw characters (Bass, Tina, Bayman) strike alot. IOW, try to incorporate doing both - especially HiC throwing - as you can do next to nothing and get a tons of damage. Try one of the three above grapplers or I can show you with Alpha (and I can't nor do I do her "fancy" throws either (236T and 21441236T) don't need to. (Yet, she's not a grappling character! Oh, how wrong that statement is!)

All in all, I think the trick to using Phase 4 properly is being patient and getting every little bit you can at a time! You will see this when you fight more aggressive players, but if anything, they will help you enhance your level of patience!

Great job! (My GT is AlpHelena if you want to spar sometime and no - you will not get the typical alpha or her "garbage!")

 

[misamia303]

Thank you, your critique means a lot. I was trying to focus on being patience and land counter strikes instead of throwing because I've seen a lot of phases that just do grabs all day when their strikes get blocked. But I agree, I coulda thrown more since my opponent wasn't being aggressive and we were taking turns striking, and I also could've have followed up with her launching throw when they attempted to hold. I'm also glad my spacing was seen as decent since that's something I'm working on with any character I use.

I'm always looking for people to spar with 1 on 1, but sadly, I'm only on psn....

 

[Zero Beat]

Yeah, that was very good. Not much to critique.

 

[misamia303]

Still, thanks nonetheless.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Thank you, your critique means a lot. I was trying to focus on being patience and land counter strikes instead of throwing because I've seen a lot of phases that just do grabs all day when their strikes get blocked. But I agree, I coulda thrown more since my opponent wasn't being aggressive and we were taking turns striking, and I also could've have followed up with her launching throw when they attempted to hold. I'm also glad my spacing was seen as decent since that's something I'm working on with any character I use.

I'm always looking for people to spar with 1 on 1, but sadly, I'm only on psn....

Oh, shame! That's fine!

You're welcome. To follow up to your reply:

Well, you can do that, too! They're called tick-throws! I use them all the time! Yet, most of my opponents do not! They only throw because they're mad their attacks won't connect! Now, with the Kasumi Trio, they can/will often abuse they Oboro Throws to get through standing guard, so be very careful when fighting them! I think Kasumi (maybe Phase 4) has the HIGH Oboro - Alpha does not!

Back to tick-throwing! It's a wonderful mix-up technique, but you have condition your opponent that major pressure (block pressure) will continue for quite a bit. Do this by doing a medium length attack string (as Alpha Kasumi or Christie, for example) Do the full string, then throw! Then, shorten the string (to ) then throw! If done in training mode, set the dummy to neutral (High/Mid) guard. After the last hit in each string variation throw!

To test HiC Throwing, set the dummy to perform each hold (as a bonus you get to see what they all look like - ie: the different heights. Mid , Mid are split; yet, both lower than a High. For Mid and , use the model of someone's face! High and holding = Eyes; Mid = nose, Mid = mouth. Low holding is obvious!)

When trying a throw (a normal one) be careful that a player may tech (escape) it (The Oboro from the Kasumi Trio is immune to it, I believe)

Note: you can't just throw them out there! You must bait them! Tick-throwing is one of those methods. Hold baiting (due to mixing up) is another. The advantage my alpha has it that no one expects the grappling version! With the actual grapplers (Bass, Tina, Bayman, Leon, Rachel, Lisa, perhaps), throws are expected from them, so they can be played as strike characters to bait them (and with actual run-throws and strikes, they really keep you on your toes like my alpha does!)

Speaking of Rachael, many love to abuse her (when the animation happens she crosses her opponent up - flips over them - leaving one vulnerable to more attacks. You could say this is her variation of a normal tick-throw as you can still execute it vs. a neutral blocking opponent. Try the standard tick-throw and specific variation with Rachael to get used to how it works.

With Phase 4, she's played like the other two - striking with occasional throwing! I know, she's a striker naturally; however, if I can turn alpha into a grappler (while the expected grapplers can become strikers).

I do like your spacing and patience as it opens up a whole lot of options! (Warning: Most players will probably not like or respect you for it! Believe me, I know!)

 

[tokiopewpew]

Most players like to go {B]immediately[/B] with the 2 in 1 MMH (H is the 2 in 1) CB, then that's when the "light show" begins! However, I can easily mentally exhaust them just by blocking and they begin to play her like Kasumi (Oboro, 8T. 236T + Combo, etc.)

It won't be that easy on someone who can simply change his playstyle and start tick throwing (and no , not with 33T or 8T because these are her slower throws for hold punishment used when you are sure they will hold. Phase's tick throw moves are 6T since it's i7 or 66T).

You were very smart not to rely on teleporting so much making her seem like a real character.

What is a real character? I wonder when people get the idea out if mind that Phase as a character is something abnormal.

The teleports are essential for Phase because once you've done one, you enter your mix-up mode with a lot of opportunities. And this is what makes that character so strong. You can either just teleport cancel to go for throw or for a longer stun game or just use a launcher for easy damage. These teleports should be used as often and as fast as possible, since playing her like a generic striker doesn't work that good when the opponent is SEing. I also still tend trying to extend the stun for too long instead of using a teleport move immediatly after stun and it often cost me a round because sooner or later, I get held or the opponent escaped out of the stun.

Therefore, it is actually not smart not to rely on teleporting too much, but it is smart not trying to get them with headless actions and using highly unsafe moves like 9PK or 1PP in neutral without having the opponent stunned. And the latter is what @misamia303 did very well.

This is one of the first matches I had with her online when she first came out. I was a bit unsafe and didn't really know what I was doing, but any advice/critique is welcomed.

Couple of things I would say you could improve:

0:08 - don't use 4P that close to the opponent in a neutral sitation. This move should be never used as a spacing tool or whiff punisher, it's simply too slow and too unsafe for it. It has 22 frames startup and will therefore always loose against fast counter attempts which are usually highs or mids that aren't slowers as 13 frames. Your tools for getting an initial stun should mainly be your fastest mid (6p, 3P also) or a fast high in combination a stunning move (I recommend PK). 4P also has no follow up which means your opponent does not need to worry about if you could use that and can choose his best tool for punishment instead after blocking. That Leon missed it there.

0:11 - be carefull with doing a rare 4K. It might be a good and fast launcher and it's good when it hits, but if you miss, it's free punishment for the opponent, therefore you should use that only if you really know the opponent is going to attack. It's also a high, which means it can be crushed easily.

1:49 - I always wonder why people like to use Phase's 9PK. It's slow as hell, unsafe and has a poor range compared to her other spacing tools like 3P+K P or K. When you face an passive and careful opponent like that Leon, you are better of not using it imo. You were lucky again that Leon did not punish.

2:10 - I don't know if that was an input error and you wanted to go for 7P instead. If not - don't do that. Just don't. If you time it wrong or I just move close to you and block then, you are at -30 (or -50 on block) disadvantage which literally means I can go making a coffee first and still decide which punishment I use when I come back. If you think the opponent will try to get in, use 6P or H+K if you think he will throw, or just block/sidestep.

I like that you used 6K for counter attempts. It's a good idea against grapplers since these players like to go for rare mid punch holds after being unsafe. Against faster characters, it might be still not the best tool because it's slow, but Leon is also not the fastest, so it's okay. Poking and spacing are good too, you also use 3P+K the right way to close large gaps and get into the right range. Altogether, that was already a very good performance, you played her neutral game the way it needs to be played (and works best imo) and if you work on the things I mentioned, you'll be solid. Thumbs up!

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

It won't be that easy on someone who can simply change his playstyle and start tick throwing (and no , not with 33T or 8T because these are her slower throws for hold punishment used when you are sure they will hold. Phase's tick throw moves are 6T since it's i7 or 66T).



What is a real character? I wonder when people get the idea out if mind that Phase as a character is something abnormal.

The teleports are essential for Phase because once you've done one, you enter your mix-up mode with a lot of opportunities. And this is what makes that character so strong. You can either just teleport cancel to go for throw or for a longer stun game or just use a launcher for easy damage. These teleports should be used as often and as fast as possible, since playing her like a generic striker doesn't work that good when the opponent is SEing. I also still tend trying to extend the stun for too long instead of using a teleport move immediatly after stun and it often cost me a round because sooner or later, I get held or the opponent escaped out of the stun.

Therefore, it is actually not smart not to rely on teleporting too much, but it is smart not trying to get them with headless actions and using highly unsafe moves like 9PK or 1PP in neutral without having the opponent stunned. And the latter is what @misamia303 did very well.

What I mean by real character is to utilize their strengths and find ways to turn their weakness into strengths instead of just playing on their strengths! Me, saying not to teleport with Phase 4 is like me saying not to do any kind of kick with Alpha! (You don't think I'm stupid, do you?)

I'll use Alpha as an example! People swear up and down she can't counter, but every time she goes into a fight, she is somehow counteringI She used to guess wrong, so she said: "Screw how everyone else counters! I'm gonna do it - differently!"

People think that Alpha should just be cranking out the throws + combos! This is not necessarily true! This is why people hated and still hate her - offense is everything! Why do you think people go batshit crazy when fighting her? It's not the lack of defense like everyone believes. If it were, why am I hearing mostly negative comments when I go "Fortress Mode?" (And no, I don't block all damn day!)

I utilize the other defensive tools along with blocking and get opponents on the defensive - and I've noticed that they need defense more than alpha! They certainly don't care for it! So, in reality, Alpha's defense does exist and it's pretty damn strong, but players do not respect it!

That is what I mean by real character. One that knows its strengths and weakness, but finds way to strengthen what one's not good at! Same with offense! If you can't deal crazy ass damage with crazy ass combos, just do the simple shit! (How people ignore the basics though this game is dirt simple, is beyond me) Like I said, I can't do 236T, 21441236T, but I don't need to (especially since people still complain how OP 236236T is - especially on HiC)

Maybe that was a bad choice of words, but if alpha can get the same criticism (She's OP, she throws/kicks too much, etc. She's defenseless and easy to beat! But who has half their game taken from them. "Poor Alpha! Her no countering ass!") Phase 4 can get some criticism, too, you know?

I'm just saying!

 

[tokiopewpew]

I'm not sure yet if I understand everything but I try to figure out your paragraphs:

What I mean by real character is to utilize their strengths and find ways to turn their weakness into strengths instead of just playing on their strengths! Me, saying not to teleport with Phase 4 is like me saying not to do any kind of kick with Alpha!

You said that misamia was smart for not relying teleports that much. Since teleports are Phase's essential tool (for the reasons, check my post above), that is not really a good statement because it's the same like your example: Saying that you are smart for not relying on kicks with Alpha. As long as you do it the proper way (not headless, like I stated above) you should always rely on your character's strength.

I'll use Alpha as an example! People swear up and down she can't counter, but every time she goes into a fight, she is somehow counteringI She used to guess wrong, so she said: "Screw how everyone else counters! I'm gonna do it - differently!"

What do you mean with counter? I guess you mean landing counter-hits that stun the opponent. You say that you (Alpha) are able to counter although people swear you can't. Ok, but if you say you are able to do so, why would you still try to do it differently?

People think that Alpha should just be cranking out the throws + combos! This is not necessarily true! This is why people hated and still hate her - offense is everything! Why do you think people go batshit crazy when fighting her? It's not the lack of defense like everyone believes. If it were, why am I hearing mostly negative comments when I go "Fortress Mode?" (And no, I don't block all damn day!)

• 1st & 2nd sentence: You say that Alpha does not need to be played offensive only. This might be true and is ok
  
• 3rd sentence: You say that people think offensive with her is everything
• 4rd & 5th sentence: You say that people go crazy when they fight Alpha, were the reason for that is not her lack of defense like everyone believes (so it must be her offensive)
  
• 6th sentence: You say you get negative comments about your Fortress mode, which means for me you are more passive and they want you to be more offensive

So people want you to be more offensive but they go crazy when you do so while fighting? Makes no sense to me .

If you play her more offensive, why do you care about people going crazy? If they can't deal with your offensive, it's not your problem. If you play her more passive, I wonder why you do so if you know that they can't deal with your offensive, especially since Alpha's offensive is her strength.

I utilize the other defensive tools along with blocking and get opponents on the defensive - and I've noticed that they need defense more than alpha! They certainly don't care for it! So, in reality, Alpha's defense does exist and it's pretty damn strong, but players do not respect it!

You are able to get your opponent into the defense with your own defensive tools. I guess you are talking about Alphas parries then, otherwise I can't imagine. Of course, defense is important against her because of her day-long strings. It's right, Alphas defense might be "strong" if your opponent does not respect the tools she has, but if you play someone who does and know how to deal with them, it isn't.

That is what I mean by real character. One that knows its strengths and weakness, but finds way to strengthen what one's not good at!

So basically you are saying that you can relativize your characters weaknesses by knowing them and trying not allow the opponent to capitalize on them by your own actions. Quite odd to label that as "real", though.

You should also consider that you can't apply all the stuff about Alpha's strengths and weaknesses in terms of offensive and defense to Phase 4. Alpha really excels in the former, also in the neutral game due to having various openers and long pressure strings, while her defense is average. Phase's tools are average in both disciplines. She neither has parries for her defense, nor good pressure tools or openers for the neutral game. As long as Phase's opponent isn't stunned and she's not able to start mix-up, her offensive can be considered as even below average due to high unsafety. That means, relativizing weaknesses with Phase is much more difficult as with other characters.

Same with offense! If you can't deal crazy ass damage with crazy ass combos, just do the simple shit! (How people ignore the basics though this game is dirt simple, is beyond me) Like I said, I can't do 236T, 21441236T, but I don't need to (especially since people still complain how OP 236236T is - especially on HiC)

Performing simple or more advanced combos or difficult moves has nothing to do with knowing the game's basics. You'll meet players that are highly skilled in execution and can perform every combo of every character but have no idea when better not to attack or block or how to play the neutral game.

Maybe that was a bad choice of words, but if alpha can get the same criticism (She's OP, she throws/kicks too much, etc. She's defenseless and easy to beat! But who has half their game taken from them. "Poor Alpha! Her no countering ass!") Phase 4 can get some criticism, too, you know?

Not sure what that paragraph is supposed to mean. No one should ever care about what other people claim about his character and/or playstyle as long it works for him and he's convinced that it's the right way how to play that character.

Ummm ... yeah ... I think I got what's your definition of a "real" character, but again, consider that things always depend on who is your opponent too and that Phase 4 is not Alpha-152.

 

[misamia303]

Thank you very much for your critique has well. I think I was the first phase he played, but he caught on in later matches to punish my random unsafe moves.

0:08 and 0:11- That was a player error, me not being careful and accidentally throwing out unsafe moves. Should her 4P only be used with her sidestep then?

1:49- I though I had a enough distance to whiff that just to see what reaction I would get. Would it's prime use be a low crush then?

2:10- That was on purpose; an unnecessary reflex. Some players will knock you back and then rush at you when you're getting up. It was meant to counterstrike him, but if I had been more patience and observed better, I woulda saw that he backed up before getting too close and then I could've just 7P away.

When fighting a faster character/aggressive player, would you just be patience and use her faster strikes to look for counter hits, and then once you get them away from you, would you play the space game and use her keep out tools?

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

I'm not sure yet if I understand everything but I try to figure out your paragraphs:

You said that misamia was smart for not relying teleports that much. Since teleports are Phase's essential tool (for the reasons, check my post above), that is not really a good statement because it's the same like your example: Saying that you are smart for not relying on kicks with Alpha. As long as you do it the proper way (not headless, like I stated above) you should always rely on your character's strength.

Of course, but to the point of: "That's all this character is"? That is asinine! Let me kick all damn day and you tell me if you think I got a positive reaction! (And I use to do that - 4K6K all day; the online gripe was her 4KKK - you got branded a noob for that or her P (x7) string!) No different, if the grapplers grabbed on day or strikers who poke playing for stuns all day! Alpha being so one-sided was utterly stupid; however, if she had both, oh the shitstorm Again, rely on a character's strength, but don't ignore the weaknesses.


2. What do you mean with counter? I guess you mean landing counter-hits that stun the opponent. You say that you (Alpha) are able to counter although people swear you can't. Ok, but if you say you are able to do so, why would you still try to do it differently?

• 1st & 2nd sentence: You say that Alpha does not need to be played offensive only. This might be true and is ok
  
• 3rd sentence: You say that people think offensive with her is everything
• 4rd & 5th sentence: You say that people go crazy when they fight Alpha, were the reason for that is not her lack of defense like everyone believes (so it must be her offensive)
  
• 6th sentence: You say you get negative comments about your Fortress mode, which means for me you are more passive and they want you to be more offensive

So people want you to be more offensive but they go crazy when you do so while fighting? Makes no sense to me .

If you play her more offensive, why do you care about people going crazy? If they can't deal with your offensive, it's not your problem. If you play her more passive, I wonder why you do so if you know that they can't deal with your offensive, especially since Alpha's offensive is her strength.

The "Lack of Defense" refers to her not having physical counters! Yes, she has a parry, but it can be block, but really wasn't/isn't that useful. Therefore, she utilizes the other defensive tools:

Footsies, Spacing, Baiting, Poking, Conditioning - those are her "Counters" (even if she can parry like crazy!) The "Fortress Mode" is a big part of it since the first thought opponents have is: "Since she can't (normal) counter and is useless near a wall, let me just pound this trick!" (I know she's not the only one who can get walled or rushed to hell and back, but what other character do you know that players salivate over doing this to? I thought so!)

Again, offense may be her strength, but it needs to be offset somehow! It was (stat wise), but do you think a character is legit when half its game is gone? And yet, the rest of the roster can use all the other defensive tools I just described whether their good at it or not + the one we're discussing lacks + be crazy offensive too?

You are able to get your opponent into the defense with your own defensive tools. I guess you are talking about Alphas parries then, otherwise I can't imagine. Of course, defense is important against her because of her day-long strings. It's right, Alphas defense might be "strong" if your opponent does not respect the tools she has, but if you play someone who does and know how to deal with them, it isn't.

I just listed all of those other defensive tools! Defense is more than physical countering!

So basically you are saying that you can relativize your characters weaknesses by knowing them and trying not allow the opponent to capitalize on them by your own actions. Quite odd to label that as "real", though.

Yeah, I guess that was stretching it, but people clearly see a difference in my alpha compared to others! This is why people are telling me to do this and that! Yet, I'm never asked about how I got my version to be like she is! (I didn't just sit and watch some "Here's How to Be Ridiculous with Alpha" (or any character) videos and try to copy that stuff!) IOW, I made an honest effort not to be a copycat! Now, I must? Really? How is it possible to find some kind of way to distinguish two or more players who play the same character if both are pulling off every damn thing from Command/Combo Training? But I hear all the time how other Alphas are better than mine since they "play to her strength" Aggression is not everything! Perhaps, the term I should have used was different! Just like there can be a distinction between two Phase 4s - one who's teleport and in your face heavy and one who isn't!

You should also consider that you can't apply all the stuff about Alpha's strengths and weaknesses in terms of offensive and defense to Phase 4. Alpha really excels in the former, also in the neutral game due to having various openers and long pressure strings, while her defense is average. Phase's tools are average in both disciplines. She neither has parries for her defense, nor good pressure tools or openers for the neutral game. As long as Phase's opponent isn't stunned and she's not able to start mix-up, her offensive can be considered as even below average due to high unsafety. That means, relativizing weaknesses with Phase is much more difficult as with other characters.

I know how Phase 4 works! I gotcha! So, what's her alternative if she can't get in (and this is how everybody plays her)? She has the OPTION to do some of what I listed my Alpha does! Space + Bait primarily! It's not that hard to do or is it? I don't think so, but the Phase 4 release videos would have you believe that she is like Alpha (when you said she isn't) - you know, "Get in there and don't give a shit!" KWIM?

(Like the player who posted that video! I recognized and applauded the patience displayed. The question is: will this player maintain that when the opponents become more aggressive or Phase 4s real offense begins to show? But will this player become a copycat? (I hope not!)

Performing simple or more advanced combos or difficult moves has nothing to do with knowing the game's basics. You'll meet players that are highly skilled in execution and can perform every combo of every character but have no idea when better not to attack or block or how to play the neutral game.

This is what I mean! The fundamentals are ignored just because you're winning easily with retarded combos! "Don't give Alpha space, but when she's about to beat me (by not doing that, btw) I need it?" (What?) (Spacing is just one fundamental, but it is very important!)

Not sure what that paragraph is supposed to mean. No one should ever care about what other people claim about his character and/or playstyle as long it works for him and he's convinced that it's the right way how to play that character.

Yeah, you're right!

Ummm ... yeah ... I think I got what's your definition of a "real" character, but again, consider that things always depend on who is your opponent too and that Phase 4 is not Alpha-152.

I know she's not! I just want players to see beyond the gimmick - strong suit or not! (This could be said for all the characters as well) Don't utilize just one or two tools, but you don't need to utilize everything either - even though the game apparently says to! ("Do this long ass combo a billion times and you're done!")

And yes, I always consider my opponents, but if 80% play the same way, we have a problem since we have to find different opponents (the other 20%) to evolve our game, right? (ie: If 100 Phase 4s are punching, teleporting and air-throwing the very same way, then I may as well play one Phase 4 who does that 100 times! Or if 80 are doing that, what are the chances the other 20 won't be since it's not your fault you have that perception due to seeing 80 do that earlier?)

You see Bayman, you think throwing and getting him to hold to throw him! You see Kasumi, you think: Poking and combo-whoring! You see Ayane, you know spinning is coming! Alpha - she's gonna kick the shit out of you! It's hard not to assume this, is it? "If you've seen one, you've seen them all - until you haven't!" This is what you would get if you played everybody to their strengths! One would think seeing my Alpha who relies more on defense than offense than or a Phase 4 who teleports less is refreshing. IOW, seeing characters do what they aren't known for doing! Doing something different shouldn't be considered a weakness! (Alpha Throwing? No way! Kasumi throwing? I'm done!) Get it now?

I've had a bad day! Sorry, for ranting like hell!

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

When fighting a faster character/aggressive player, would you just be patience and use her faster strikes to look for counter hits, and then once you get them away from you, would you play the space game and use her keep out tools?

Yeah, imo! I don't know her keep-away tools since I haven't seen such a game take place with any Phase 4 I've played online - well, less than I'd like to. I did ask a LIVE friend, if I could play her in the same manner and he said yes (I space and play keepaway with Alpha too. Everybody has a keep-away game!) I would mix up between going in and spacing to throw your opponents off which leads to more options - especially if they're holding/countering often. (Throw, be more patient and strategic when trying to strike. Bait alot! Heck, wait to see what your opponents do first (you want them to make mistakes, not yourself, or make more mistakes than you! Capitalizing on mistakes is the difference between a win or loss! How well-versed are you at playing mind games? You won't always win, but this skill will help tremendously and you'll only get better facing opponents that are better at this skill.)

(I don't have Phase 4, btw, hence, the Alpha barrage!)

 

[J.D.E.]

Actually, Alpha does need to play offensively. She's really not made for spacing. Most of the time, if you're hitting buttons out in space with her, it results in whiff punishing her. Her being a featherweight character doesn't help at all either since she can be juggled basically any kind of way an opponent chooses. Plus, she's unsafe as fuck, so you have to know your stuff with her. If she doesn't, she's pretty much dead to the world. That's her strong suit with free canceling & tick throwing.

Just about all of Alpha's tools in space are gap closing tools, not keep outs. That means yes, you do have to learn to space, but to either gap close, whiff punish, or get in range in order to go to work since she doesn't have the tools to keep out. Phase 4 is also a character that is not made for keep outs. She's a footsies/counter poking character. Keeping out is playing in a defensive matter which is made for characters who are generally defensive. The only things that I can think of that Phase really has to keep out with is 3P+KP & 6H+K because 3P+KP does a knockback & wall slams while 6H+K does a turn around stun which allows you to go into your offense & wall slams. 3KK maybe because it does the same things as 3P+KP except it doesn't do as much as knockback. Other than that, no.

You're only setting yourself back if you're not taking advantage of her strongest tools & what area Alpha excels at especially from the lack of wake up game. However, if that's how people decide to play, then that's on them. I'm not going to derail the thread. This is for Phase 4 critiques. Just wanted to throw that out so that people aren't misinformed.

 

[tokiopewpew]

0:08 and 0:11- That was a player error, me not being careful and accidentally throwing out unsafe moves. Should her 4P only be used with her sidestep then?

Not sure what you mean. Her 4P is not the same as her sidestep punch. I don't recommend using 4P in any kind in the neutral game. Why would you use that slow move after you've done a sidestep? By doing so, you would just miss the advantage you actually get by avoiding your opponents move. You are better off using 4P only as part of a combo or when you know it will hit guaranteed (like after a 236T in the ceiling).

1:49- I though I had a enough distance to whiff that just to see what reaction I would get. Would it's prime use be a low crush then?

Actually, I'm not sure what could be that moves best use. Personally, I never use it. I think for a low crush, it's too slow and I can't imagine why your opponent would use a low while being at proper range for that move. In close range, you would rather jump over your opponent, but then, you might end up backturned and open to him due to it's recovery. I think everyone has to figure out on his own how 9PK works best for him, I just can give the recommendation for not using it too much due to it's characteristics. If you want to crush lows, use 8P instead, it's safe on block.

2:10- That was on purpose; an unnecessary reflex. Some players will knock you back and then rush at you when you're getting up. It was meant to counterstrike him, but if I had been more patience and observed better, I woulda saw that he backed up before getting too close and then I could've just 7P away.

If you want to counterstike your opponent, you are better off using moves with slower recovery and more safety (like the ones I posted above) because if he just moved in a bit to bait you for doing a move, you aren't that open to him if he blocks it or you miss. Though it's a good crush, Phase's 7K is one of her moves with the longest recovery, therefore I wouldn't recommend to use it for that purpose.

When fighting a faster character/aggressive player, would you just be patience and use her faster strikes to look for counter hits, and then once you get them away from you, would you play the space game and use her keep out tools?

That is a good question. Against faster characters and offensive players, you need to be patient in general because they can counter-hit you easily when you are too reckless. However, in most cases, they make mistakes while being so agressive too (using moves that are unsafe), which you can capitalize on.

Though, it's not absolutely necessary to play spacing games imo, since you still have some fast tools for close combat too. With your i9 jab and your neutral 2P, you can also interrupt their offensive easily, although that does not mean that you can go for your own offensive immediatly after it. You may also have to figure out first in what your opponent is better. Sometimes, you notice that a players poking game is very good and hard to read, but he lacks of patience when there is space between both of you and prefers to come in as fast as possible with something. In that case, I would rather try to keep him of myself more to let him make more mistakes there. I hope that helps you as answer.

In the end, everyone has to decide on his own how he want's to play a character and which moves he want's to use and can do so, no matter if it's Alpha or any other character. Since this is the Phase 4 thread, all people here (me included) can do is to give and discuss recommendations of what is a good idea and a bad idea to use with that character, based on own experiences and knowledge about the game mechanics. Thereby, it should be considered that playstyles are always discussable, while the game mechanics are facts.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Actually, Alpha does need to play offensively. She's really not made for spacing. Most of the time, if you're hitting buttons out in space with her, it results in whiff punishing her. Her being a featherweight character doesn't help at all either since she can be juggled basically any kind of way an opponent chooses. Plus, she's unsafe as fuck, so you have to know your stuff with her. If she doesn't, she's pretty much dead to the world. That's her strong suit with free canceling & tick throwing.

Just about all of Alpha's tools in space are gap closing tools, not keep outs. You're only setting yourself back if you're not taking advantage of her strongest tools especially from the lack of wake up game. However, if that's how people decide to play, then that's on them. I'm not going to derail the thread.This is for Phase 4 critiques. Just wanted to throw that out so that people aren't misinformed.

I clearly don't do that, haha!

But, throwing out attacks in dead air is useful if you know what you're doing (Phase 4 included). I don't mean full screen (although I have found in much earlier online sessions, opponents would SS ( at different intervals) from full screen (even with alpha moving while in the air, that kick does not reach that far). It does, however, keep alot of players back, allowing her into get in there if and when she so choose (it's a Respect tool - "She has this, so I better be careful!")

This is what I mean by utilizing spacing to gain advantage which may lead to going in, but she still has to be careful! IOW, you do not need to hit, to get in a hit or worse! Get in the opponents' heads first! If Alpha's just rushing, the opponent likes it since it plans to rush her anyway, but get them to think even if things then become unfavorable! It's a risk, but the reward! This tool is or could be also vital to Phase 4 as well! (No, they aren't the same characters, but the same tools are available even if some appear to be more abundant or scarce than others)

And again, I know! I'm just using Alpha as an example - not a comparison! (Although, it's difficult not to compare the two ... three if you count Kasumi! And they have and probably still happen! I guess the Kasumi to Alpha comparisons have stopped? Kasumi to Phase 4 comparisons? Comparing all three?)