"5 truths about videogame tournaments"

Bushido

Well-Known Member
The "no code of honor" thing. I get in a tournament fair giving the opponent a chance is frowned upon but still. Bleh. I'll still back up and let opponent breathe if I'm wailing on em too hard
That makes zero sense. Why would you give your opponent a chance to come back and win? Imagine in MvC in Grand Finals one guy drops his 100000 hit combo on purpose so his opponent can have a chance. It's just ridiculous. If you're going to do that, then why are you competing in a tournament, when the objective is to win the entire thing?
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
That makes zero sense. Why would you give your opponent a chance to come back and win? Imagine in MvC in Grand Finals one guy drops his 100000 hit combo on purpose so his opponent can have a chance. It's just ridiculous. If you're going to do that, then why are you competing in a tournament, when the objective is to win the entire thing?
Because its really unsatisfying for a deciding match to be no contest.

Then you are not playing to win, and are showing every competitive player you come across a severe level of disrespect whether its intended or not.
While its true I play to fight, not just win, showing disrespect to people who expect overkill doesn't concern me, as I feel its equally extremely disrespectful to wail on people who can't fight back.

Only time I'll try to outright wreck em is if I actually hate them lol.
 

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
The "no code of honor" thing. I get in a tournament fair giving the opponent a chance is frowned upon but still. Bleh. I'll still back up and let opponent breathe if I'm wailing on em too hard

As much as I dislike the rushdown game - not so much the game itself, but the favoritism (especially online) - it's a viable strategy. If anything, it is helpful
That makes zero sense. Why would you give your opponent a chance to come back and win? Imagine in MvC in Grand Finals one guy drops his 100000 hit combo on purpose so his opponent can have a chance. It's just ridiculous. If you're going to do that, then why are you competing in a tournament, when the objective is to win the entire thing?

Well, FME, it's perhaps boring! One of the Comm's in the stream I was in said he wouldn't bother watching due to his assumption that it would be a beatdown. IOW, how would that be exciting to anybody? I got creamed in the first game of the first bracket, but things got even (unfortunately my opponent got clowned) in the second bracket. I lost, but I didn't mind (I didn't in either game)

Here's the issue: Moreso then the combos themselves, it's the assumption that they'll never be dropped or this "go for it all" mantra! Sometimes, the most basic of moves wins (ie: Kwiggles after blowing his PL, wins from a Throw - and he's got a really stupid Christie! XD) It's ignoring the fundamentals - even against my main - hell, she's more fundamentally sound win or lose! Yeah, I have a great rushdown character, but it isn't the only tool I use! (heck, Jan Lee, Eliot and Ayane are great spacers, but they're not always played as spacing characters.)

The upside to falling victim to the relentless nature is being patient. Then, there's combining both! I lost to Hoodless and damn is defense is just as strong as his offense if not stronger! Then again, t may be because I'm a defensive player main or not!

My second match was a different story. The Comms were questioning (as was I) what my opponent was doing. He let me get to him, but I didn't do that by nonstop rushing. It comes down to being outplayed. Most don't want that to happen nor admit it when it does happen. (ie: My opponent got back on my ass because he was being outplayed and everyone knew it!)

One can play against the intended purpose! Sometimes it works; other times, it doesn't! You shouldn't ignore the unintended purpose though (Spacing characters rushing, Rushing characters spacing) This whole perceived appearance of giving up when it's not, is baffling though! It can't be that hard to tell the difference!

Do what you gotta do to win though!
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Because its really unsatisfying for a deciding match to be no contest.


While its true I play to fight, not just win, showing disrespect to people who expect overkill doesn't concern me, as I feel its equally extremely disrespectful to wail on people who can't fight back.

Only time I'll try to outright wreck em is if I actually hate them lol.

And I'm telling you that's the worst kind of mentality you can have in a competitive community. Not even as a matter of opinion, as a matter of fact. It goes against basically everything that makes a competitive player competitive.

If you are fighting someone and stomping them so thoroughly that it is no contest then you probably shouldn't keep fighting them unless you're trying to actually teach them something. Going around and doing what you are doing is damaging to new players because it puts really bad ideas in their head about how the game should be played.

That said, if you don't plan on going to tournaments and refuse to even play online with a competitive mindset, I do have one very legitimate question to ask. Why are you posting on a competitive site?
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
And I'm telling you that's the worst kind of mentality you can have in a competitive community. Not even as a matter of opinion, as a matter of fact. It goes against basically everything that makes a competitive player competitive.

If you are fighting someone and stomping them so thoroughly that it is no contest then you probably shouldn't keep fighting them unless you're trying to actually teach them something. Going around and doing what you are doing is damaging to new players because it puts really bad ideas in their head about how the game should be played.

That said, if you don't plan on going to tournaments and refuse to even play online with a competitive mindset, I do have one very legitimate question to ask. Why are you posting on a competitive site?
Meh. Just pounding someone to the ground and telling them to "learn to play" isn't exactly good encouragement for new players either.

I'm here because I was directed to this site as the "better of the two DOA sites". And I am interested in doing tournaments, but aside from a lack of time and money for it, bad experiences from wannabe tourney players left me apprehensive about the community. Playing with people from the site is helping though I can't do that much anymore.

Plus I have a hard time flipping that switch from "good sport" to "blood sport" lol.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
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Difference being you're not playing "new players" in a tournament.

Personally, I'd take it as disrespectful that my opponent is sandbagging me, which is what you describe. Pulling your punches, not giving it your all to win the match within the rules. You're basically saying "You're not worth my time to even care about fighting you." Like you pick your 6th best back-up character instead of selecting your main at character select.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Meh. Just pounding someone to the ground and telling them to "learn to play" isn't exactly good encouragement for new players either.

You're right, it isn't. That's why you tell them what they are doing wrong and what they can do to improve. You also direct them to players who are a bit above their current skill level, because that gives them a reasonable target to improve against.



I'm here because I was directed to this site as the "better of the two DOA sites". And I am interested in doing tournaments, but aside from a lack of time and money for it, bad experiences from wannabe tourney players left me apprehensive about the community.

Good answer, but the key phrase is "wannabe tourney players". The ones who don't make the cut are usually obnoxious and attempt to compensate by bloating their ego in unreasonable ways that have nothing to do with actual competition. Online players bragging about fictitious triumphs and claiming they are the best at their character, even though they have no legitimate way of measuring this are good example of that kind of stupidity. And it is that exact behavior we frown upon, naturally.

Playing with people from the site is helping though I can't do that much anymore.

Plus I have a hard time flipping that switch from "good sport" to "blood sport" lol.

Firstly, don't consider it a blood sport. That would be if strangling your opponent with his controller cord was a legal move. You're entering commands in a video game that result in a graphical outcome. It isn't physically hurting someone who you beat and, if it is causing them severe mental anguish it is their own responsibility to fix that problem -- not yours. It's the key issue people have trouble overcoming as mentioned in this gloriously aged article. Competitive communities are about like-minded individuals pushing each other through such trials to improve. If you are never faced with an impossible situation to break through, then you will never have anything to actually aim for. The very concept of competition falls apart at that point.

But if you can't evolve towards the correct mentality, then competitive play will never be fun for you. It's not about causing mental anguish, (although im sure some folks get off on that) it's about overcoming barriers.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
You're right, it isn't. That's why you tell them what they are doing wrong and what they can do to improve. You also direct them to players who are a bit above their current skill level, because that gives them a reasonable target to improve against.





Good answer, but the key phrase is "wannabe tourney players". The ones who don't make the cut are usually obnoxious and attempt to compensate by bloating their ego in unreasonable ways that have nothing to do with actual competition. Online players bragging about fictitious triumphs and claiming they are the best at their character, even though they have no legitimate way of measuring this are good example of that kind of stupidity. And it is that exact behavior we frown upon, naturally.



Firstly, don't consider it a blood sport. That would be if strangling your opponent with his controller cord was a legal move. You're entering commands in a video game that result in a graphical outcome. It isn't physically hurting someone who you beat and, if it is causing them severe mental anguish it is their own responsibility to fix that problem -- not yours. It's the key issue people have trouble overcoming as mentioned in this gloriously aged article. Competitive communities are about like-minded individuals pushing each other through such trials to improve. If you are never faced with an impossible situation to break through, then you will never have anything to actually aim for. The very concept of competition falls apart at that point.

But if you can't evolve towards the correct mentality, then competitive play will never be fun for you. It's not about causing mental anguish, (although im sure some folks get off on that) it's about overcoming barriers.
For the record, my personal goal/play style is to prove I can thrive and be successful with my own approach.
 

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
Difference being you're not playing "new players" in a tournament.

Personally, I'd take it as disrespectful that my opponent is sandbagging me, which is what you describe. Pulling your punches, not giving it your all to win the match within the rules. You're basically saying "You're not worth my time to even care about fighting you." Like you pick your 6th best back-up character instead of selecting your main at character select.

That exact mistake cost my advancement! I switched too my secondary because I figure my opponent was able to read my main (I'm sure he would've been, but I decided to switch and got ousted lol) Personally, I don't think offline/online are different; I mean, they are, but usually only one factor is brought up - LAG!

Anyway, I look at it like this: getting the shit beat out of you is what helps you get better! I've had it happen and still do, but people will admit that I have gotten better! If you can't snag but abit here and there every time you fight, that is a good thing to take with you, too!
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
For the record, my personal goal/play style is to prove I can thrive and be successful with my own approach.

As someone who plays a character that can't easily win, yet still tries to, I understand having your own approach. I have to win on my own terms, or not at all. But your approach, going soft.... it's not a thing that will help you improve, win, or be respected. It's not an approach I could recommend for any reason.
 

Intelligent Alpha

Well-Known Member
As someone who plays a character that can't easily win, yet still tries to, I understand having your own approach. I have to win on my own terms, or not at all. But your approach, going soft.... it's not a thing that will help you improve, win, or be respected. It's not an approach I could recommend for any reason.

Where's that line? Panic vs. Patience; Playing smart vs. Hard. I know how they overlap, but is that the problem, imo? (The overlapping I mean?) Now, out of being patient, I did grow to be more aggressive, but not to the point where it looks like I've grown impatient! There risks, but rewards on both sides. I guess you have to choose the lesser of two evils and this will vary from player to player
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I don't know what patience or aggression has to do with the topic at hand. He's deliberately backing off not due to any kind of strategic value, but because he feels bad about actually winning. That's the problem. If a person feels bad about achieving victory it doesn't bode well for them as a competitive player when that is literally their only objective.
 

d3v

Well-Known Member
There are a few times when backing off out of a combo might be considered advantageous, i.e. when you want to reset or if doing so leads to better positioning. In those cases, you still tend to have the advantage either due to positioning for the latter, or the fact that doing anything usually puts them back in a combo for the former.

Just backing off because you think you're going in to hard on an opponent however is just dumb. At times it may even be seen as an insult or straight up disrespect.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
There are a few times when backing off out of a combo might be considered advantageous, i.e. when you want to reset or if doing so leads to better positioning. In those cases, you still tend to have the advantage either due to positioning for the latter, or the fact that doing anything usually puts them back in a combo for the former.

Just backing off because you think you're going in to hard on an opponent however is just dumb. At times it may even be seen as an insult or straight up disrespect.
Partly because I like to counter wakeups, buy mostly because its really really really boring to wail on someone like that and I don't like to nod off during my own matches.
 
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