Balance test video Jan Lee vs Lisa

[Shinigamimatt]

Dat spacing tool. Good Jann Lee players are still gonna be scary it seems. Also, that new Knee move he does looks great.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Isn's the new voice actor for Jann Lee the voice actor for GATSU in Berserk ??? He sure sounds like him

Do you guys recon Lisa's outfit design and colors are a tribute to El Blaze from VF? They look pretty similar..

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Im liking the how juggling seems better this time around. Or maybe these players are better and i just suck at DOA4. I also like how the electric walls dont take too much damage. And that grab lisa did where she jumped has insane distance. Kinda like she got sucked on to Jan.

 

[Einzelkind]

Would be cool if her throws could cover different distances like Voldo's in SC.

 

[CyberEvil]

His moves out of Dragon Stance are insanely fast and seem to primarily function as juggle extenders. He's looking to have a bit more depth this time around but still very approachable for new players.

EDIT: Do not like my posts when they have typos in them! Luckily you got me to re-read my post but, seriously, don't reward stupidity.

EDIT 2: Found another typo. What the hell is wrong with me today?

 

[Darrell]

quick question. Do launchers after Critical burst thresh hold is reached, give you a higher launcher, and if not, should it?

 

[DrDogg]

So... anyone else notice that there was no punishment at all in this video? I'd love to get more information on what was being balanced tested here. It'd also be interesting to know who was playing.

Watching this video reminds me of how I play DOA when I've been playing other fighting games a lot. I forget about throw punishment and just go for attacks (which get blocked). There was enough blocking that I'd think you'd see some punishment from both players, but there was none.

If this is a balance test for damage and things of that nature, I'm all for it. But if this is an overall character balance test, I'm a bit concerned that how safe a character is doesn't seem to be a covered here. I'm really, really hoping characters have a good number of safe attacks this time around... at least 20-25% of their move list should be safe on block. As of E3, it was only about 10%.

Bare in mind that he started it off of a HI COUNTER strike and because of it he managed to get Critical burst on his 4th hit. I think its only fair.

The HCH made the combo inflict more damage, it had nothing to do with a CB on the 4th hit. It's also interesting to note that the Lisa player could've countered at least three times before being put in the CB stun.

I really hope they aren't talking about Jann Lee's combo @2:35, that's perfectly acceptable damage, it was on HIGH COUNTER STRIKE, so the whole combo had a 50% damage boost PLUS+ wall and electric damage. Don't you dare balance that.

I agree with this completely. Plus, as I mentioned above, the opponent could've countered at least three times before the CB stun. So while it did a lot of damage, it was HCH and the opponent could've escapes multiple times. No need for a nerf.

quick question. Do launchers after Critical burst thresh hold is reached, give you a higher launcher, and if not, should it?

As of E3, it was rare to see a CB in less than three hits (although it was possible). So taking that into account, the launcher would come on the fourth attack, giving it a decent height.

 

[Chris Harris]

Well concerning that combo he did with Lee

He did 3p which was the HCH
Then he did p2p >stance

Now in reality the only hold he could possibly do is a high hold or a low hold and here's why:

p2p has been held maybe 1 times out of 10 no matter what situation. It's too fast to go oh he hit me with a jab the next hit is a mid cause he could also do p6p so that move in general is RARELY held (not saying it is impossible but highly improbable).

The first chance to hold which is the best shot would be to hold the high. You can't even low hold in that situation (especially in DoA5) because if you hold low the mid still stuns for free so still in the same boat. I mean you could hold the mid but like I said that is like a super rare occurrence.

The next best opportunity to hold would be the mid from the stance (assuming that was a mid cause it looked pretty mid to me). However he did that stance a couple of times that match I believe and the knee is a small launch so it's kinda like a 50/50. . .obviously you would want to not let that mid punch go because of the damage potential.

However once he gets to that stance in THAT type of situation you looked screwed unless you guess right and I don't even know how quickly he can get out of that stance and probably Gunner you and get you again.

Because from Gunner it looks like you get a free high kick stun, or that guy was getting hit on purpose. If that high stunning kick is free though that character will be a problem -_-

 

[Raansu]

Because from Gunner it looks like you get a free high kick stun, or that guy was getting hit on purpose. If that high stunning kick is free though that character will be a problem -_-

First hit after dragon gunner is guaranteed. Was confirmed by Shimbori on twitter. I'm glad they returned it to it's doa3 status.

 

[DrDogg]

Because from Gunner it looks like you get a free high kick stun, or that guy was getting hit on purpose. If that high stunning kick is free though that character will be a problem -_-

It's still a guessing game though. In the combo we're discussing, you can hold the attack that stuns (1), either of the hits in P2P (2), or the CB attack (3). That's three chances to guess right.

Also note that the Lisa player tried to throw after the guard break, which started the whole thing. If we assume Jann Lee is at advantage in this situation, the Lisa player shouldn't have been trying to throw and instead should've blocked or countered.

But this isn't a demonstration of player skill. I was just commenting on the fact that the damage is fine because there were three chances to escape the combo.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I can tell you from experience that is not necessarily correct.

For example...

Note any of the sitdown stuns in the E3 build, you'll see that critical stun still pops up during them. This is incorrect terminology on the games part, but is not at all indicative that they can actually hold.


So feel free to have hope =)

Are Critical Stuns just regular stuns? Nothing special right, and you can still hold? And are sit downs stuns noted as critical stuns also, and you cant hold in sit downs right? Sorry for all the questions, all these changes with stuns is making me all confused.

 

[Allan Paris]

Are Critical Stuns just regular stuns? Nothing special right, and you can still hold?

Yes, and you can still hold out of those.

And are sit downs stuns noted as critical stuns also, and you cant hold in sit downs right? Sorry for all the questions, all these changes with stuns is making me all confused.

In the build before E3 you couldn't hold out them. In the E3 build you could SE and then hold out of them. How they work now, holds come out later in the sit-down stun and not right away.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Yes, and you can still hold out of those.



In the build before E3 you couldn't hold out them. In the E3 build you could SE and then hold out of them. How they work now, holds come out later in the sit-down stun and not right away.

Oh ok. And SE means shake escape right? So does that mean most likely you will be able to keep hitting the stunned person without getting countered right, thats if you hit them fast enough before they escape?

 

[Rikuto]

its kinda sketchy how exactly something is determined to be a critical stun or not. Theoretically a critical stun is any stun you can hold out of.

I suppose if you couldnt hold for the first 30 frames of a 31 frame sitdown stun, it would still technically be a critical stun.

It'd still guarantee a lot of a lot of setups though, so its hard to treat it that way in practice. Be nice if the game could reflect this a little better, but it's pretty easy to figure out that anytime you get knocked on your ass you can't hold.... so I'll take whats given

 

[Doug Nguyen]

its kinda sketchy how exactly something is determined to be a critical stun or not. Theoretically a critical stun is any stun you can hold out of.

I suppose if you couldnt hold for the first 30 frames of a 31 frame sitdown stun, it would still technically be a critical stun.

It'd still guarantee a lot of a lot of setups though, so its hard to treat it that way in practice. Be nice if the game could reflect this a little better, but it's pretty easy to figure out that anytime you get knocked on your ass you can't hold.... so I'll take whats given

Yeah i just hope sit down stuns stay effective like before the E3 build but if it does become unholdable again, what makes it different then the critical burst.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

The HCH made the combo inflict more damage, it had nothing to do with a CB on the 4th hit. It's also interesting to note that the Lisa player could've countered at least three times before being put in the CB stun.

My point exactly. Which is why CB had everything to do with it.

- He got the highcounter punish.
- He got burst at the 4th hit ! meaning "as you clarified" that Lisa could have held 3 times before.
- the CB was at MAX threshold and not an early burst repeat so the launcher height is justifiable and he EARNED that juggle height.

This is all fair and well deserved. It was Lisas mistake not to attempt any holds. I see no reason for a nerf in this situation at all.

It could bave been worse if he went for a Powerblow (had he <50%HP) after burst and followed up from the rope stun. but again he earned that right.

People need to understand that given the right circumstance, all characters are capable of doing something similar to this.

Also this clearly shows that because his individual strikes are not as damaging as say one of the more hard hitting slower folk, that even on high counter he had to go for the burst on the 4th hit to exceed threshold. Would he have been able to do it on the 3rd consideing he had Hi Counter ? I dunno....

This makes me think that they might have increased the amount of damage in critical stun needed to reach threshold in the whole game in order to balance out burst. I wonder....

 

[Allan Paris]

And SE means shake escape right? So does that mean most likely you will be able to keep hitting the stunned person without getting countered right, thats if you hit them fast enough before they escape?

SE means Slow Escaping in DOA. Ultimately, you are shaking the stun off of you. Yes you can keep hitting your opponent during the SE but, someone who is skilled will combine SE'ing with holding/blocking/attacking. Then you would want to watch the attacks you are doing because there will be a chance of you getting held, getting punished for an unsafe move, or crushed which will cause a counter blow and you will get launched.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

My point exactly. Which is why CB had everything to do with it.

- He got the highcounter punish.
- He got burst at the 4th hit ! meaning "as you clarified" that Lisa could have held 3 times before.
- the CB was at MAX threshold and not an early burst repeat so the launcher height is justifiable and he EARNED that juggle height.

This is all fair and well deserved. It was Lisas mistake not to attempt any holds. I see no reason for a nerf in this situation at all.

It could bave been worse if he went for a Powerblow (had he <50%HP) after burst and followed up from the rope stun. but again he earned that right.

People need to understand that given the right circumstance, all characters are capable of doing something similar to this.

Also this clearly shows that because his individual strikes are not as damaging as say one of the more hard hitting slower folk, that even on high counter he had to go for the burst on the 4th hit to exceed threshold. Would he have been able to do it on the 3rd consideing he had Hi Counter ? I dunno....

This makes me think that they might have increased the amount of damage in critical stun needed to reach threshold in the whole game in order to balance out burst. I wonder....

So does launching off a hi counter attack give you extra juggle height?

 

[DrDogg]

Also this clearly shows that because his individual strikes are not as damaging as say one of the more hard hitting slower folk, that even on high counter he had to go for the burst on the 4th hit to exceed threshold. Would he have been able to do it on the 3rd consideing he had Hi Counter ? I dunno....

This makes me think that they might have increased the amount of damage in critical stun needed to reach threshold in the whole game in order to balance out burst. I wonder....

I'll be surprised if any characters lack the ability to burst on the 3rd hit of a combo. I'm pretty sure the Jann Lee player simply chose not to burst earlier in the combo. If he couldn't burst until the 4th hit, that would almost instantly make Jann Lee low tier. If all characters had to wait until the 4th hit to burst, then CB would be pointless. I'd be VERY surprised if that were the case.

So does launching off a hi counter attack give you extra juggle height?

Yes.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

So does launching off a hi counter attack give you extra juggle height?

In DOAD it did. Weather this will be applied to this game or not is still to be confirmed.

But as a general rule in DOA, when you reach Critical threshold (maximum amount of stun possible before the opponent is knocked down or reset). then you get MAX launch height.