Balance test video Jan Lee vs Lisa

[Doug Nguyen]

I'll be surprised if any characters lack the ability to burst on the 3rd hit of a combo. I'm pretty sure the Jann Lee player simply chose not to burst earlier in the combo. If he couldn't burst until the 4th hit, that would almost instantly make Jann Lee low tier. If all characters had to wait until the 4th hit to burst, then CB would be pointless. I'd be VERY surprised if that were the case.

I hope not. I want critical burst to be actually useful. Seems like a step in the right direction. And are Limbo stuns kinda like critical burst since you cant hold out of them? Could you explain the difference between sit down stuns, limbo stun, critical burst and i heard something called lift stuns?

And too bad hi counter hits are dependent on your opponent so you gotta think fast when setting up a combo. But glad juggles seem better this time.

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

I hope not. I want critical burst to be actually useful. Seems like a step in the right direction. And are Limbo stuns kinda like critical burst since you cant hold out of them? Could you explain the difference between sit down stuns, limbo stun, critical burst and i heard something called lift stuns?

And too bad hi counter hits are dependent on your opponent so you gotta think fast when setting up a combo. But glad juggles seem better this time.

Limbo stuns, you like hold your back and fall over backwards. Sit down stuns, any stun that puts you on your ass. Critical Burst is a specific move given to each character that when you land it on your opponent, if the damage brings your opponent past the stun threshold, it puts them in a long unholdable unSEable stun, long enough to do basically anything you want including the Power Blow. I think Limbo stuns and Sit down stuns put you in an unholdable state, but you can SE them. I don't know all the details about Lift stuns and whether or not they have unholdable frames or not.

There's a few more stuns they need to make unholdable too, for example: Turn around stumbling stun done from Hitomi's and her sidestep kick that does the same thing. I'm sure a few others have this type of stun. The super deep "hold your gut" and slowly fall to the floor stun.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Limbo stuns, you like hold your back and fall over backwards. Sit down stuns, any stun that puts you on your ass. Critical Burst is a specific move given to each character that when you land it on your opponent, if the damage brings your opponent past the stun threshold, it puts them in a long unholdable unSEable stun, long enough to do basically anything you want including the Power Blow. I think Limbo stuns and Sit down stuns put you in an unholdable state, but you can SE them. I don't know all the details about Lift stuns and whether or not they have unholdable frames or not.

There's a few more stuns they need to make unholdable too, for example: Turn around stumbling stun done from Hitomi's and her sidestep kick that does the same thing. I'm sure a few others have this type of stun. The super deep "hold your gut" and slowly fall to the floor stun.

Wow so many stuns. Now theres the gut stun. Its hard figuring out all the properties of these stuns too. Especially since there changing so now. By the way i was watching some of the old streams and Master did a critical burst to Kasumi then he punched her which put her into a critical state and she countered. I thought anything after a critical burst is unholdable?

 

[Allan Paris]

By the way i was watching some of the old streams and Master did a critical burst to Kasumi then he punched her which put her into a critical state and she countered. I thought anything after a critical burst is unholdable?

It'd be nice if you linked the video. Although, it sounds like he accidentally did a CB and didn't launch or do a PB after it. he wasn't using none the new system mechanics (the CB in particular), purposely. The jab may have reset the stun state allowing the player the option to hold again.

I think I may know the video you are talking about, I am not going to go link it though. He did accidentally CB someone and paused a little bit, not knowing what was going on.

I don't know all the details about Lift stuns and whether or not they have unholdable frames or not.

The lift stun is the stun where your character gets lifted off of their feet and onto their toes, briefly. Gen Fu's did this and Elliot's did this, just to name a couple moves.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

It'd be nice if you linked the video. Although, it sounds like he accidentally did a CB and didn't launch or do a PB after it. he wasn't using none the new system mechanics (the CB in particular), purposely. The jab may have reset the stun state allowing the player the option to hold again.

I think I may know the video you are talking about, I am not going to go link it though. He did accidentally CB someone and paused a little bit, not knowing what was going on.

It was the ipl stream but yeah i think in a critical burst if you dont launch then they can hold out of it, can anyone confirm this? Also does that stagger stun have any properties. Hitomi had it where she back kicked and it made the person kinda stumble away.

 

[Allan Paris]

They cannot hold out of a CB, the person was able to hold because Manny jabbed them and reset the stun. Which means they were no longer in the CB state in which they cannot hold in. Yeah, link the video. I believe I know what happened with you just describing it. To make sure though, if you know where the video is just link it.

What do you mean does that stagger stun have properties? Are you asking can they hold from that? I don't know I didn't see anyone hold from it when they were put in it. DrDogg or Rikuto could answer that one a lot better. I would imagine you can SE from it though.

 

[Rikuto]

Anything after the CB is completely unholdable... for that one attack.

And assuming you use that attack to launch, obviously they aren't going to counter in the air.... therefore everything followed up is guaranteed.

If you go out of your way to break the stun and reset the situation by simply jabbing, then yes you're going to lose the benefit.

Think of the CB not as something which guarantees a combo by itself, but rather an important link in the combo.

3p 3k 7p 236p 3pp6k ppk -- 50% lifebar or so.

3p gave the stun which started "opened up" my opponent, but it was not really the start of the combo. The "combo" in a more guaranteed sense did not begin until the sit down stun on 3k, which linked to the CB 7p, which linked to the launcher 236p, which linked to the juggle 3pp6k ppk.

If instead I had something silly like 6ppk after 7p, the first hit would land but the followups would be prone to getting countered as the stun threshold is already long past broken.

 

[MasterHavik]

I hope to see more of Lisa. no more gimmicks for her!!! She looks faster though.

 

[TRI Mike]

I'm a bit annoyed by Jann Lee's Dimensions voice but I know I'll just get used to him eventually. So far, my mains are him and Tina. Still waiting for Hele.

Damage for Lee seems quite nice and I can see several ways to implement sidestepping into his poking game. To be quite honest I don't understand how his "Dragon Stance" works.

 

[Hurricane Rev]

Jann Lee intro in DOA5 = Impression of a bird, yeah?

lool But apart from that, he is looking quite strong in this game. He looks the same as how he was in DOAD and his dragon stance seems really interesting. I am looking forward to seeing the dragon stance more.

As for Lisa, I am VERY glad she is getting BUFFED!! In DOA4/D, she didn't really have great tools to deal with certain characters. But now, it is looking like she is going to get better in Number 5. I just hope that she isn't going to be a bate character to fight if you know what I mean.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

They cannot hold out of a CB, the person was able to hold because Manny jabbed them and reset the stun. Which means they were no longer in the CB state in which they cannot hold in. Yeah, link the video. I believe I know what happened with you just describing it. To make sure though, if you know where the video is just link it.

What do you mean does that stagger stun have properties? Are you asking can they hold from that? I don't know I didn't see anyone hold from it when they were put in it. DrDogg or Rikuto could answer that one a lot better. I would imagine you can SE from it though.

Yeah i was just wondering if they are slow escapable or holdable. WIsh under the terminology page of FSD they had a list of all the stuns and its properties.

 

[DrDogg]

Yeah i was just wondering if they are slow escapable or holdable. WIsh under the terminology page of FSD they had a list of all the stuns and its properties.

For the most part, all of the stuns are the same. The exceptions are Critical Burst, Limbo, Stagger/Stumble and Sit-Down.

- Critical Burst you can't counter or Slow Escape.
- Limbo, Stagger/Stumble, and Sit-Down, you can't counter, but you can Slow Escape to reduce the time you're stunned.
- Every other stun you can basically counter immediately.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

For the most part, all of the stuns are the same. The exceptions are Critical Burst, Limbo, Stagger/Stumble and Sit-Down.

- Critical Burst you can't counter or Slow Escape.
- Limbo, Stagger/Stumble, and Sit-Down, you can't counter, but you can Slow Escape to reduce the time you're stunned.
- Every other stun you can basically counter immediately.

Thanks for clearing things up. Thats what i thought. Wonder if team ninja is gonna change up any of the stuns. Is there anything that can increase your juggle height other than launching at the end of the threshold.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Just to clarify, limbo stuns can be held out of, at least in DOA2 and 3.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Just to clarify, limbo stuns can be held out of, at least in DOA2 and 3.

Do you have to slow escape out of it first?

 

[grap3fruitman]

It's actually an option select scenario wherein you perform one action and you get one of two options to come out depending on what your opponent does. So specifically with limbo stuns, if you're mashing and while in a limbo stun, you'll slow escape/fall to the ground faster if your opponent doesn't do anything but if your opponent attacks then your hold will come out.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

It's actually an option select scenario wherein you perform one action and you get one of two options to come out depending on what your opponent does. So specifically with limbo stuns, if you're mashing and while in a limbo stun, you'll slow escape/fall to the ground faster if your opponent doesn't do anything but if your opponent attacks then your hold will come out.

Oh ok so kinda like a sitdown stun.

 

[DrDogg]

Just to clarify, limbo stuns can be held out of, at least in DOA2 and 3.

You couldn't counter out of it in the E3 build.

 

[Rikuto]

You couldn't counter out of it in the E3 build.

I believe Grap3 is referring to the option select bug in DOA 3.

Normally you can't counter out of a limbo in those games, however if execute the notation at something stupid like a 1 or 2 frame window before impact you can actually counter the attack. If you miss the window nothing happens and you get launched.


And this is not easy to time... at all. Even in a controlled environment VP was having difficulty pulling it off and fairly inconsistent results. Honestly it might well be in the E3 build since we never did that kind of extensive testing, and its definitely not something you could do feasibly with one person and no training mode. It also wasn't really a high priority to look for.

Considering how much the engine and buffering system has changed since DOA 3, I wouldn't be surprised to see that it was completely gone.