Team Ninja Twitter

[Rikuto]

i think the trade-off is fair. wall damage should be good, but juggle options limited slightly. Rikuto, your logic obviously makes sense, but i think it will put TOO much pressure on the player in the tight situation.

Ahhh, yet 3.1 gave even more tools to create pressure and higher damage output on the combos, and no one complained. This is because guessing was not involved when making these risky decisions, you were either lined up for death or you were not, and this was completely manageable.

Don't put your back to the wall and you won't take a boatload of damage. We did not even see a 50% damage combo here and it was an electrified wall, WITH a CB and full launch. So I don't understand the complaint.

Just how far down would you be willing to nerf the damage before you could shrug off every aspect of the environment? I think it's rather important here, don't you?

 

[Berzerk!]

Damage looked ok so long as everyone has setups that can deliver big damage it will make Doa more fast paced and exciting

 

[DrDogg]

My biggest concern with these comments is how safe Jann Lee's attacks out of Dragon Stance are. No matter how many options he has, if they're all unsafe (or it's not safe to enter Dragon Stance), then it won't really matter.

The more I think about the E3 build, the more I think the defender is still heavily favored. You can just block and punish all day long. Most throws don't inflict significant damage unless they're hi-counter, so getting thrown a few times won't stop people from blocking all day. And if the offensive player gets too throw-happy, a simple jab will cause a HCH and a stun.

 

[Sagittarius]

Again, I stress how important it is for this type of critique to be made to TN's Twitter and/or Facebook or any other form of direct contact.
The suggestions and ideas here are often extremely on-point, but it doesn't matter if TN isn't hearing them. I do my best to Copy/Paste some things from here but I'm not always on the forums to catch good ideas.

 

[Rikuto]

Well... see, thats the problem though. It isn't going to stop me from attacking... because I have no choice. I have to attack eventually.

But it doesn't make me want to attack either.

Imagine you're in the second half of the round and your lifebar is starting to matter. If you toss out just about any attack and its blocked, you're going to take damage. So why would you ever attack in that situation? We had this problem before, with CGS. Itagaki himself, who took a wrecking ball to DOA 4 because he didn't like what he was seeing from 3.1, expressed sincere regret and stated that he never intended DOA 4 to be played the way it was being played.

I would ask the guys at Team Ninja to seriously reconsider making everything that unsafe again... quite a few of the characters are pretty good right now, especially someone like Tina. That's a model for what we need out of most characters in terms of safety.

Specific things, like attacks that cause really deep unholdable stuns and launchers, these are the things that should be unsafe and punishable with throws. This makes sense, and I'm sure we all agree with that.

But if im too scared to use even basic jabs and mixups, then why will I ever venture beyond using the 10% of my movelist i know i can get away with?

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Well... see, thats the problem though. It isn't going to stop me from attacking... because I have no choice. I have to attack eventually.

But it doesn't make me want to attack either.

Imagine you're in the second half of the round and your lifebar is starting to matter. If you toss out just about any attack and its blocked, you're going to take damage. So why would you ever attack in that situation? We had this problem before, with CGS. Itagaki himself, who took a wrecking ball to DOA 4 because he didn't like what he was seeing from 3.1, expressed sincere regret and stated that he never intended DOA 4 to be played the way it was being played.

I would ask the guys at Team Ninja to seriously reconsider making everything that unsafe again... quite a few of the characters are pretty good right now, especially someone like Tina. That's a model for what we need out of most characters in terms of safety.

Specific things, like attacks that cause really deep unholdable stuns and launchers, these are the things that should be unsafe and punishable with throws. This makes sense, and I'm sure we all agree with that.

But if im too scared to use even basic jabs and mixups, then why will I ever venture beyond using the 10% of my movelist i know i can get away with?

Pretty much agreed with everything here. Maybe Hayashi will see this. I havent read anywhere that people like unsafe moves and being able to counter all the time.

 

[Rikuto]

Right. Also, so I'm being clear...

Most characters attacks do NOT have to have frame advantage. It's very nice on specific moves for specific characters, but thats not a requirement for the game to work. It's not some competitive thing where every character needs to have boatloads of frame advantage to be viable... that just isn't the case.

But safe moves are another story. Safe moves should not be a rare thing, they should be a common thing. In general they should be the most common move in the game.

Single Hit/Normal hit Launchers should be unsafe, because they result in big damage. If they weren't unsafe, they would be the only thing anyone would use.

Fast Crushes should be unsafe if they result in anything other than a light stun.

Low Sweeps should be unsafe, because they require a person guess/react between mid/low and it rewards proactive defense.

Certain situational attacks, like a sabaki that stops a wide variety of things, can also be unsafe depending on how "good" they are.

Attacks that cause Unholdable Stuns (with the current system) should be unsafe. This is because they are the most powerful option, period.

This is pretty much where it ends. There is no reason for anything beyond this to be unsafe.

I really hope this is read by someone on staff, because while I endorse the game and support it as it is now, this formula does make it much more enjoyable for a lot of people who aren't good with the faux pressure (string delay) mind games.

 

[DR2K]

It's supposed to. In a good fighting game, the player taking initiative should be rewarded. Lowering damage on a danger zone that the defending player failed to position themselves to avoid is ridiculous and pandering to the new player too much.

There's a middle ground though. You can lower it and it would still be in favor of the attacker.

What I'm really worried about is the VF characters, if they have the type of frame advantage that they have in VF5 and DOA characters remain as they are, then there's going to be huge balance issues.

 

[Rikuto]

There's a middle ground though. You can lower it and it would still be in favor of the attacker.

What I'm really worried about is the VF characters, if they have the type of frame advantage that they have in VF5 and DOA characters remain as they are, then there's going to be huge balance issues.

The best fighting games have balance issues. Usually pretty severe ones. I'm fine with the VF characters having their VF frame data, provided the DOA characters get a little safer themselves to compensate. Certain characters on the DOA side should also be frame advantage/guard break beasts, but again, not everybody.

Not all playstyles require this to win. I was overjoyed to see Bayman has some frame advantage for once, but if it came to him any easier it would just be dumb.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

The best fighting games have balance issues. Usually pretty severe ones. I'm fine with the VF characters having their VF frame data, provided the DOA characters get a little safer themselves to compensate. Certain characters on the DOA side should also be frame advantage/guard break beasts, but again, not everybody.

Not all playstyles require this to win. I was overjoyed to see Bayman has some frame advantage for once, but if it came to him any easier it would just be dumb.

I think they are making DOA characters safer. I noticed some of kasumi's attack seem safer now that they added that teleport for her. She will be less predictable because if they block her attack she can still follow up with a teleport and catch the other person off guard (Unless the attack has to hurt the opponent to teleport, but i think you can if blocked).

 

[DrDogg]

I think they are making DOA characters safer. I noticed some of kasumi's attack seem safer now that they added that teleport for her. She will be less predictable because if they block her attack she can still follow up with a teleport and catch the other person off guard (Unless the attack has to hurt the opponent to teleport, but i think you can if blocked).

Are you talking about the teleport from 7K? If so, as of the E3 build, it had to hit to go into the teleport. And on block it's super unsafe. Every character at E3 was super unsafe, except for Tina.

 

[Rikuto]

Well Tina is mega safe

Hayabusa is a sniper, so its difficult to comment on him in a traditional fashion. What I mean is that he has very good "get in" and can come in from range with a fast guard break and has fast transitions into his ninpo stance that can't be interrupted (at least by my character). If he is ballsy, he's got a string or two that end in guard breaks but they are somewhat reactable if you've seen them enough times. Otherwise he's kinda unsafe, but he gets in so easily, risks so little and has such high damage output that virtually who ISNT a Hayabusa player would fail to sympathize with him.

Frankly I look at Hayabusa and I swear, I almost see Viola. "Let me mix you up three times before you can do anything hurr hurr hurr". Yea for him, he can stay unsafe once he's exhausted his guard breaks/ninpo BS. He deserves it.

Hayate can choose to play safe, but he has to "charge" his attacks and thats always going to be a problem against anyone with decent reflexes at high level... which is usually everyone. He just needs more love overall....

Kokoro is safeish.

Ayane is super unsafe.

Leifang super unsafe.

Bayman super unsafe.

Zack most unsafe character ever with pretty much no redeemable qualities outside of devil jin mode.

Kasumi super unsafe.... maybe getting safer?

Hitomi.....sorta safe?

Yea I mean these characters can all still win and, in some cases, stomp the hell out of other people when they guess right. In some cases it doesn't really phase them much. But it's annoying more than anything.

With the lack of safety, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not as much a threat to the competitive nature of the game as it is a threat to the fun factor. I don't like having more reasons to not attack, than I do to attack. I've got enough of those with my opponent using sidestep evasion, defensive holds, crushes, sabaki's, and having him being at advantage over me.

So, once again. This isn't a mandatory change I think... but it would definitely be a nice.

 

[Allan Paris]

I think they are making DOA characters safer. I noticed some of kasumi's attack seem safer now that they added that teleport for her. She will be less predictable because if they block her attack she can still follow up with a teleport and catch the other person off guard (Unless the attack has to hurt the opponent to teleport, but i think you can if blocked).

No, she is still very unsafe overall. If anyone blocks something Kasumi does, she is getting thrown. If you parry (hold out of an unsafe move), you are opening yourself up for a HCT (Hi Counter Throw) and are going to eat way more damage than if you just took the punish without holding.

In my eyes that's scrubby to hold out of unsafe moves but, players do what they like and I am more than happy to oblige with max punishment.

Kasumi's parry seems like it functions like her DOA4 parry. So it will depend on what she parries to get anything guaranteed from it. No way to know exactly until it's tested fully, so we'll see with that one.

Edit: I see you were talking about her attack parry and not her actual parry as a hold. Nevermind me when I spoke on parrying from something unsafe. I misread your post.

 

[OSTCarmine]

no i dont think those teleports are safe at all, though i may be wrong. im also pretty sure that her 7K is unsafe on block, and continuing with the teleport does not help that situation. you end up behind your opponent, and recover fairly fast, but not fast enough. Ayane has a field day with shit like that. So would Lisa and a few others with useful moves from BT.

Well Tina is mega safe

Hayabusa is a sniper, so its difficult to comment on him in a traditional fashion. What I mean is that he has very good "get in" and can come in from range with a fast guard break and has fast transitions into his ninpo stance that can't be interrupted (at least by my character). If he is ballsy, he's got a string or two that end in guard breaks but they are somewhat reactable if you've seen them enough times. Otherwise he's kinda unsafe, but he gets in so easily, risks so little and has such high damage output that virtually who ISNT a Hayabusa player would fail to sympathize with him.

Frankly I look at Hayabusa and I swear, I almost see Viola. "Let me mix you up three times before you can do anything hurr hurr hurr". Yea for him, he can stay unsafe once he's exhausted his guard breaks/ninpo BS. He deserves it.

Hayate can choose to play safe, but he has to "charge" his attacks and thats always going to be a problem against anyone with decent reflexes at high level... which is usually everyone. He just needs more love overall....

Kokoro is safeish.

Ayane is super unsafe.

Leifang super unsafe.

Bayman super unsafe.

Zack most unsafe character ever with pretty much no redeemable qualities outside of devil jin mode.

Kasumi super unsafe.... maybe getting safer?

Hitomi.....sorta safe?

Yea I mean these characters can all still win and, in some cases, stomp the hell out of other people when they guess right. In some cases it doesn't really phase them much. But it's annoying more than anything.

With the lack of safety, I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not as much a threat to the competitive nature of the game as it is a threat to the fun factor. I don't like having more reasons to not attack, than I do to attack. I've got enough of those with my opponent using sidestep evasion, defensive holds, crushes, sabaki's, and having him being at advantage over me.

So, once again. This isn't a mandatory change I think... but it would definitely be a nice.

Poor Ayane. This is my main and i have not really seen much play done with her at all.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

That sucks to hear. I only use Kasumi normally and no wonder when i play DOA4 online i always get punished when my attacks get blocked.

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

I found it kinda funny how Sarah Bryant has practically the SAME move has Kasumi and Hayate(why does he even have this move anymore?) yet Sarah can recover fast enough to combo with it.

 

[DyByHands]

Zack most unsafe character ever with pretty much no redeemable qualities outside of devil jin mode.

Devil Jin Mode??

 

[Arnell Long]

Zack shots out leasers from his eyes...

 

[DyByHands]

Yeah, I wonder if the laser eyes are just a taunt?

 

[Arnell Long]

Maybe, but I doubt it's just for show, I'm sure it has its effects.

Would be a waste if it was just a harmless taunt that offered nothing more than a visual.