A Discussion of sexualised design of male/female characters

[Sammy-Fu]

So I thought I reply to the thread and Russian's cue to keep the discussion going, since this is atually a super interesting topic, but get completely ignored and we are back to Marie Rose and the same old debate...

For character design (if sexualized or not) I will in future keep on talking to myself in the graphics and art style thread. XD

I would have replied but i had nothing more to add or discuss on what you said, lol.

I get ignored too but you gotta battle for it, you gotta try and get noticed around these parts or fall to a life of obscurity and failure......

possibly.

 

[Kasumi-Phase-X]

Wouldn't work.

They removed the ages for all characters in Senran Kagura for the west and the franchise is as anime esque as you could get. It's the only change they did and Marvelous said the games will always be completely uncensored except for the ages.

It's just more pressure these days than it was back then, the west tried to enforce it on Japan in their home territory but Japan wasn't having any of it.

You're definitely right. I've actually heard about Senran Kagura just remove age information (like what DOA has done before) which is more reasonable considering different countries & rules along with keeping everything in the game. There has been a lot of pressure for this stuff in various games which normally won't be lucky & will receive the censorship treatment, good thing while censoring part of character bio not having to censor that much.

The problems with Marie rose are

1) regardless of her stated age, she is explicitly designed as more of an 11 year old than anything thing else, which wouldn't be an issue in and of itself except for the following two points

2) that creepy ass (figuratively and literally) C2. Her c1 and most other outfits are fine and cute and all but THAT one is just awkwardly skintight for how young she looks. That costume is why I can't image search DOA anymore, especially not in public because now all the results look like illegal porn.

3). Someone as young as her looks totally out of place in a world fighting tournament. It comes across less as an actual doacharacter and more like someone forgot "bring your daughter to work day" was canceled.

Then there's also

4) Her design while unique to DOA, is pathetically bland and generic overall to the point when you see fan art of her its damn near impossible to tell its supposed to be Marie Rose because she looks exactly like every other anime Loki



Bottom line is DOA will design girls of whatever age they think will sell then just claim they're 18 regardless because much like real life its damn near impossible to prove one way or the other without valid ID lol

Part of the problems you mention is something I completely disagree and shouldn't be much of a problem, while I can accept that she doesn't look or act like what most people would associated as a normal adult. Your 2nd point is honestly I could accept bit on why you & some have a problems with her although by the logic of can't image search you probably won't be watching tournament matches if some picks her battlesuit C2 or C3, and 4th I just have no comment on that one we've seen Lolita fashion or characters that don't act their age from various manga, anime, & video games so it wouldn't be that much new.

The 3rd point honestly just isn't really problem, I could think better examples of out of place for DOA. Sometimes you can't judge by age on whether or not who feels out of place in some martial arts tournament, and to be quite honest DOA isn't always going to be what you've seen from previous games before her first announcement. She honestly would be something of getting use to (at least you don't have to like her at all).

If you were to consider DOA1-DOAD, Senran Kagura, & certain anime titles (the ones that saw US streaming & releases) proves you don't have to make up age just so it see releases in other countries (even some would make an age that says 5,000 years) & doesn't need some ID. But that is a different topic for another day, just for the sake of resuming the actual topic if you or anyone have any further responses just give Me a private message.

 

[XVideos]

3D fighters are harder to create in general. The lack of projectile moves is quite limiting so they always have to find other unique ways of creating fighters....saying that, Tekken has Akuma now so maybe i'm just talking out of my ass.

Maybe their are others that do have projectiles and stuff and i'm just not thinking clearly.

oh well.....but there DOES seem to be a lot limiting in 3D fighters, moves and designwise.

I mean the character designs in the big name 3D fighters are somewhat generic.
In VF you have a generic white guy and a ryu copycat as their protagonists
In DOA you start with some ninjas
in Tekken you get 2 cone head dudes with pants

On the other hand, in Guily Gear you get SOL BADGUY!!!!!

I think Soul Calibur was the 3D fighter with most variety because they don't try to ground themselves in our time like the other fighters do.

 

[Sammy-Fu]

I mean the character designs in the big name 3D fighters are somewhat generic.

I know.

I just wanted to add my thoughts on 3D fighters but i didn't really have anything good or interesting to say towards your point.....but i still tried, lmao.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

I saw these pictures on Facebook and thought they would make an interesting discussion piece.

Which version do you personally like best?

 

[Sammy-Fu]

I saw these pictures on Facebook and thought they would make an interesting discussion piece.

Which version do you personally like best?

View attachment 17250

View attachment 17251

Saber- Version 1.

Lancer- Version 1 & 4.....can't decide between the two, the armour is badass but i always like to see girls flaunt what they got and still be super badass....hmmmmm.......probably 4.

 

[Tyaren]

Number 1 and 2 and both 5 and 6, the rest is just...well, imho not very "smart" sexualization.

Reminds me of this:

 

[XVideos]

If you are going to play a game, why not make it more fun like this?

When I look at sports games like golf, soccer, tennis or whatever, every one's taking this shit so seriously. They want it to be as boring as reality as possible and remove all the fun from playing video games. What's the point if their virtual Tiger Woods does the same fist pump after getting a great shot?

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

Number 1 and 2 and both 5 and 6, the rest is just...well, imho not very "smart" sexualization.

Reminds me of this:

in the same vein of that BS, gender exclusive clothes in general piss me off because they just lock you out of cool shit for no reason. there have just been times where i wanted to wear a female item for my male avatar(not anything like a dress) and just been denied, there was also a particularly weird version in Dark Souls where females could wear the thieves mask but men couldn't. way to dash my ninja dreams.

 

[Argentus]

I saw these pictures on Facebook and thought they would make an interesting discussion piece.

Which version do you personally like best?

View attachment 17250

View attachment 17251

Saber 3rd pic, lancer 1st pic.

I'm fine with showing some skin so long as it still looks like an outfit. Saber still looks like a gladiator outfit, just less on top for moving around. Lancer though looks better as an evil knight, while her revealing outfit isn't even designed in a practical way, its just a torso gap to let her tits hang out, so it looks ridiculous.


To compare, the first looks more like a Conan style warrior when unarmored, while the latter just looks like a stripper to me

 

[Chapstick]

I saw these pictures on Facebook and thought they would make an interesting discussion piece.

Which version do you personally like best?

View attachment 17250

View attachment 17251

First for both :/ I was gonna say the second for the second but noticed they took pieces of it away on the bottom and it changed the balance of it imo. Regarding the fourth pic on the second one does she actually have any nipples? Pretty sure they would be showing

 

[Tyaren]

Regarding the fourth pic on the second one does she actually have any nipples? Pretty sure they would be showing

Senran Kagura reversed:

 

[Sammy-Fu]

Senran Kagura reversed:

Senran Kagura always makes me lol because they skirt around the edges so often they forget that the nipple should be in the place that they are showing off, lol.

 

[whiterobes]

See Honokas difference. She uses a copy paste of Maries face but otherwise she's obviously 16-19. Build mannerisms dress etc.

Marie is blatantly, almost explicitly, about 8-12, and Team Ninja is obviously lieing out there asses to appease censors by saying "totally 18" lol.

Much like how they did a two year time skip so they can say the younger girls are 18 now despite it being obvious no such time has actually passed.

Seriously though her c1 dress and schoolgirl outfits are the only times she looks any older and even those cap at about 13-14

I actually believe Marie is 18, and I believe there are people that look like that. I also believe TN purposely did that so it would be 'legal' or 'okay'. But the fact is, morally speaking, it's not, and this has to do with how Marie is portrayed. Marie Rose does not look her age. People that look like Marie also do not look their age. And what I mean by that is what society typically associates with girls of this age. My opinion of a decent example of what the age of 18 looks like would be Kokoro, Ayane, Hitomi, Lei Fang (and even Tina despite actually being older). What people don't seem to understand is the morality of sexualizing someone that looks, for all intents and purposes, visually younger than what is perceived to be 18 (at least in the US).

I think people see the number 18 and think it's okay. I personally don't, and I honestly question and absolutely judge the hell out of people that do, though I will often keep my opinions to myself. While I use her and enjoy her playstyle, I can admit that she is an extremely problematic character when it comes to this. And that's really what it all boils down to: people don't want to admit that they've got a problematic fave. My eyes are so sore from seeing the "but she's 18!!!1" excuse. Or the other classic one, "but some girls that are 18 or even much older do look like that!" And as I said before, yes, I absolutely believe some girls look like that. But that doesn't make sexualizing this character any less problematic. I swear, people whip that shit it out like it's a fucking shield.

 

[Sammy-Fu]

I actually believe Marie is 18, and I believe there are people that look like that. I also believe TN purposely did that so it would be 'legal' or 'okay'. But the fact is, morally speaking, it's not, and this has to do with how Marie is portrayed. Marie Rose does not look her age. People that look like Marie also do not look their age. And what I mean by that is what society typically associates with girls of this age. My opinion of a decent example of what the age of 18 looks like would be Kokoro, Ayane, Hitomi, Lei Fang (and even Tina despite actually being older). What people don't seem to understand is the morality of sexualizing someone that looks, for all intents and purposes, visually younger than what is perceived to be 18 (at least in the US).

I think people see the number 18 and think it's okay. I personally don't, and I honestly question and absolutely judge the hell out of people that do, though I will often keep my opinions to myself. While I use her and enjoy her playstyle, I can admit that she is an extremely problematic character when it comes to this. And that's really what it all boils down to: people don't want to admit that they've got a problematic fave. My eyes are so sore from seeing the "but she's 18!!!1" excuse. Or the other classic one, "but some girls that are 18 or even much older do look like that!" And as I said before, yes, I absolutely believe some girls look like that. But that doesn't make sexualizing this character any less problematic. I swear, people whip that shit it out like it's a fucking shield.

I'm not a fan of lying in general, the whole "has to be 18" stuff is pretty lame in itself. I think i said awhile back but in my country the legal age of sex is 16 which i'm perfectly comfortable with in all honesty, i'm not sure if it's because i was just brought up with that and seeing friends around that age be interested in such things or my mind just naturally reached the conclusion that it was okay but it sits comfortably with me.

Legal age of dating here is 13 though and i don't agree with that, i think that's extremely creepy to know friends of family which have done this In their 20's and i wish i didn't know, pretty damn gross.

Marie Rose being as young as she looks though puts me off totally, i must have played her like 5 times at most, I heard and watched her crying when she loses and i haven't touched the character since, hahaha

 

[KasumiLover]

Marie being 18 and looking like a young teenage adolescent doesn't really bother me. Lili from tekken is 16 and underage, yet she shows her legs uncovered in her short Lolita dress, and has several customization items that sexualize her in various manners, such as cleavage and side boob, and even her genital area was near exposure in her wedding dress T6 outfit. Talim and Amy were completely sexualized in SC4 and no one really made a fuss, and even in MK9, Mileena is realistically a new born.

 

[Chapstick]

I think the magnifying glass is put more on Marie since she's in DOA and DOA has a certain reputation that's not getting better. And now she got that (imo) creepy DOAX3 poster I can't unsee. I legit gasped when I saw it in the DOAX3 thread, it dead serious looked like CP which is not something I'd say lightly.

I do think Marie applies to the topic of sexualization because let's face it, she was at least partially made to be attractive to a demographic they hadn't yet tapped into in DOA5 after they dropped the anime thing and everyone looked older.

 

[Tyaren]

*sigh* And we are back to this topic again...

Lili from tekken is 16 and underage, yet she shows her legs uncovered in her short Lolita dress, and has several customization items that sexualize her in various manners, such as cleavage and side boob, and even her genital area was near exposure in her wedding dress T6 outfit. Talim and Amy were completely sexualized in SC4 and no one really made a fuss

Lili might technically be under 18 but at least she looks like a young woman...
Talim and Amy might have worn some slightly revealing clothes...but in the game they never were nearly as objectified as this:

Not Save For Work:

Spoiler

This is official artwork, not something some creeper on Deviantart put together in some 3D program.
Now let's wait for the first footage of Marie dancing on a pole and spreading her legs in nothing but tooth floss...
I really wouldn't be suprised if at least that scenario was actually unlawful in several Western countries, such as the US, UK, Germany, France... I guess, some people would still pretend it was nothing to make a fuss about though...

 

[Sammy-Fu]

*sigh* And we are back to this topic again...



Lili might technically be under 18 but at least she looks like a young woman...
Talim and Amy might have worn some slightly revealing clothes...but in the game they never were nearly as objectified as this:

Not Save For Work:

This is official artwork, not something some creeper on Deviantart put together in some 3D program.
Now let's wait for the first footage of Marie dancing on a pole and spreading her legs in nothing but tooth floss...
I really wouldn't be suprised if at least that scenario was actually unlawful in several Western countries, such as the US, UK, Germany, France... I guess, some people would still pretend it was nothing to make a fuss about though...

I seen those images already but holy fucking shit, extreme close up and omg what the fuck?

Omg, no way, lol. The outline of her vagina lips and everything.

Seems like a lot of people out there are not ready/cannot handle loli ass to the extreme, i am one of those people.

 

[KasumiLover]

*sigh* And we are back to this topic again...



Lili might technically be under 18 but at least she looks like a young woman...
Talim and Amy might have worn some slightly revealing clothes...but in the game they never were nearly as objectified as this:

Not Save For Work:

Spoiler

This is official artwork, not something some creeper on Deviantart put together in some 3D program.
Now let's wait for the first footage of Marie dancing on a pole and spreading her legs in nothing but tooth floss...
I really wouldn't be suprised if at least that scenario was actually unlawful in several Western countries, such as the US, UK, Germany, France... I guess, some people would still pretend it was nothing to make a fuss about though...

Oh my lord please don't show me those foul Marie pics~_~ That's the only thing I have a problem with...she's supposed to be this CUTE and MODEST girl, but that puts her in a position that I don't view her as, which is sexy and provocative. I don't mind her appearance or age, but I can't stomach her in this new sexy image, that's not the Marie I was drawn to when she was first announced. That's why I was panicking long back around the time when the Tamiki and Fireworks beach DLC debuted in case you were wondering why I was so uneasy. And if I see marie dance on a pole....