"Toning down blah blah" Let's talk about the EVO event...

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

FYI I don’t like to usually mention this, but I’m not a “he,” I’m a woman who feels constantly alienated in these games and communities.

So yeah, I’m fed up with putting energy into this, and being optimistic, and I’m hardly alone. The reasons DOA won’t ever succeed as a mainstream or esport game are painfully obvious, and you’d do yourself a favor if you recognized it.

Yo, you aren't some random dandelion in the breeze here, just FYI.
Dead or Alive has the biggest female AND the biggest gay community in the FGC at large.

And here's 2 things here:
1. What energy did you put into being optimistic and whose this other people? I've been here since the first year of DOA5U and even then, I've been a fan of DOA for close to 2 DECADES! What energy have you honestly put in that NO ONE ELSE HAS!
2. No one here ever believed Dead or Alive has to be some mainstream or E-Sports game to gain credibility, that's literally the worse horse you can put yourself on. What you want Dead or Alive to get... is RECOGNITION, RESPECT! How you get your game to get respect? To stick by it through thick and thin, play it despite how you don't get that many opportunities, you regardless get people to try and join your game or atleast get them to play it.
You think DOA finally being in CEO was some random fluke? It was done most likely due to seeing how much we keep supporting this game despite all the bullshit. Have you ever seen how many pros actually watch our games, give us some respect even though they may not say it allowed, even themselves shill DOA despite apparently not having any interest?

Don't try and pretend you are suddenly doing anyone any favors, we have been at this grindstone for decades and that's a hell of alot more than most games have lived and died by for comparison. Not everyone needs mainstream success or E-Sports to be good, they are goals to aim for but never goals to live by. Sometimes the best success is simply getting respect.

 

[Goarmagon]

I just want decent netcode.

 

[NewWestFan]

I just want decent netcode.

The real dream

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

I've been saying literally since day 1 that the fanservice isn't gone and it'll 180 by launch, nobody believed me...

 

[TRI Mike]

The road to this game's launch has been a complete disaster.

 

[Raansu]

The road to this game's launch has been a complete disaster.

Eh, I don't really think it has been. Twitter is twitter, but the fans that were always going to buy the game will still buy it.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

The road to this game's launch has been a complete disaster.

PSH, telling people that they are losers for participating in a minor meme doesn't make you look any better genius.

Stop trying to gatekeep and at the very least get the stick out of your ass. You are acting as if there was never any other scandal in the FGC before this and DOA is forever ruined, just roll with it and you'll be fine.

 

[TRI Mike]

My problem is that those fans on social media came to the series because of DOA5's dlc and Xtreme 3. DOA6 has a million interesting things to talk about but if you check places like the "official" Reddit, all they talk about are boobs, Xtreme this, fanservice that. I haven't seen a single thread on Reddit or Twitter (outside of FSD and DOA's own accounts) talking about gameplay. They have intense and long discussions about whether Ayane's boobs are smaller or Honoka's are bigger, but none of them have any clue how to actually play any of the two characters.

I like the fanservice, to an extent. I am a fan of series like Senran Kagura or Atelier which have lots of fanservice and you can even say revolve around it. But as someone who has been in the DOA scene since DOA2, it bothers me to no end to see that fanservice is the only thing being talked about. It gives the wrong impression that DOA true players are just those people and that the series only exists to make the girls wear fetish anime girl clothes.

Also, I wanna make something very clear. With all of this I'm NOT saying I'm a pro player or anything. I'm decent at best but I deeply love the series and care about it. I don't want this to be what marks DOA6's life because it seriously looks like a solid, great fighting game.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

My problem is that those fans on social media came to the series because of DOA5's dlc and Xtreme 3. DOA6 has a million interesting things to talk about but if you check places like the "official" Reddit, all they talk about are boobs, Xtreme this, fanservice that. I haven't seen a single thread on Reddit or Twitter (outside of FSD and DOA's own accounts) talking about gameplay. They have intense and long discussions about whether Ayane's boobs are smaller or Honoka's are bigger, but none of them have any clue how to actually play any of the two characters.

I like the fanservice, to an extent. I am a fan of series like Senran Kagura or Atelier which have lots of fanservice and you can even say revolve around it. But as someone who has been in the DOA scene since DOA2, it bothers me to no end to see that fanservice is the only thing being talked about. It gives the wrong impression that DOA true players are just those people and that the series only exists to make the girls wear fetish anime girl clothes.

Also, I wanna make something very clear. With all of this I'm NOT saying I'm a pro player or anything. I'm decent at best but I deeply love the series and care about it. I don't want this to be what marks DOA6's life because it seriously looks like a solid, great fighting game.

And I honestly got equal news for you sweetheart, most people don't understand but primarily most FGC players do:
Casuals... they don't care about trying to formulate strategies and combos. They will talk about what they like about the game a HELL of alot more than how exactly you learn to be better and better.

The people who was in Shoryuken for the longest actually even pointed out this problem THEMSELVES in that most casuals ultimately won't get it if they choose to not get it yet wonder why people don't pay attention to them. Trying to suddenly care for why these casuals are only talking about titties, costumes and otherwise and believing it's ONLY in DOA is a truly ignorant thing.
I've seen this happen consistently so much in GameFAQs that it's amazing when someone literally wants to know how to play better there.
And it's not even GameFAQs that has this issue, most communities that ever have a gaming subforum for the specific game? Very rarely talk about the game itself. They don't form strategies, have constant BnBs that stretch across the entire forum... it's primarily talking everything else BUT how to up your game.

Why do you think that those who want to learn... ultimately find out where they need to learn to get better? Because they choose to. How did you find FSD? How do people find Shoryuken? How do people find 8-Way Run? Tekken Zaibatsu? Etc, etc.

They go and look and find out what they need to do to get better on their own. Why in the hell would ANYONE care for Reddit? There is never a goddamn Reddit forum that actually even bothers with actual strategy outside a rare few that I'm SUBSCRIBED TO!
I get what you are going on, I honestly do... but if you believe that this is just a DOA issue, then you are rudely mistaken. This is just a fact of life that we have to deal with.

EDIT: Here's my example.

I found this Youtube by myself because I wanted to learn and find out how to up my game, there are PLENTY of Youtube channels that do the same thing for the games they like and the characters they like, no matter the game. People can look for these if they want to learn to PLAY BETTER. Don't try and complain about it, do something about it.

 

[TRI Mike]

I never said it's a problem only present in DOA.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

I never said it's a problem only present in DOA.

You are very well giving off the impression it's a DOA only problem that we somehow must solve.
We can't control casuals, we can't control Twitch Monsters, what do you honestly want us to handle?
Do you want me to tell you the countless times that when I was watching DOA5U-LR tournies, that I had people who genuinely wanted to know more about DOA and wanted to know if they can get into it? Or you can ask Bifuteki and Spooky for proof that stuff actually happened so many times, I lost count.

If people want to get into these types of games, that's their own choice. Their opinions can and will change by looking at how others play. I have seen this for years for multiple games including DOA. You need to stop tripping and get a damn grip.

 

[Macca Beam]

By the way, the “Japanese vs American values” escape is bullshit for two reasons. 1) you’re selling the game in America too, and DOA has always been bigger in America than Japan. And 2) this line of thought is orientalist and racist, as if feminism doesn’t exist in Japan and Japanese fans don’t ever have issues with crap like this.

cut the arrogance. americans aren't the center of the universe.
not every american is gung-ho about these "values"; you're making them all look bad. many don't care, many understand "please everyone" approaches never work out and developers have to pick a side.
and yes, they have issues with crap like this all the time in japan, they just didn't make an embarrassing display out of it by shutting down a stream thousands are watching and making a chest thump tweet about their holy act afterwards. though tolerance is a more accurate word than values.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

cut the arrogance. americans aren't the center of the universe.
not every american is gung-ho about these "values"; you're making them all look bad. many don't care, many understand "please everyone" approaches never work out and developers have to pick a side.
and yes, they have issues with crap like this all the time in japan, they just didn't make an embarrassing display out of it by shutting down a stream thousands are watching and making a chest thump tweet about their holy act afterwards. though tolerance is a more accurate word than values.

And here's the funny part: Wah stumbled onto a Japanese journalist website which critiqued what Mr. Wizard did as a clash of cultures and not simply understanding at all how they do things in Japan.
So again, Mr. Wizard's tweet comes off pretty racist considering the circumstances among many other reasons why people took offense to it.

 

[Raansu]

And here's the funny part: Wah stumbled onto a Japanese journalist website which critiqued what Mr. Wizard did as a clash of cultures and not simply understanding at all how they do things in Japan.
So again, Mr. Wizard's tweet comes off pretty racist considering the circumstances among many other reasons why people took offense to it.

I don't think it comes off as racist. Its just typical fanfare in events like this in Japan (or even Asia in general) are just the opposite end of the spectrum for pretty much everyone else in the world. If you're not used to seeing this kind of stuff its gonna catch you off guard even though its pretty normal in Japan.

 

[Tyaren]

I've been saying literally since day 1 that the fanservice isn't gone and it'll 180 by launch, nobody believed me...

Eh...you've not been the only one who saw through their charade day one.

 

[crapoZK]

I can literally find the quote saying that they'll go back to the old shit. We been knew.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

Eh...you've not been the only one who saw through their charade day one.

Oh I don't mean here, I mean on the DOAX3 thread and Xtreme discord and stuff.

 

[Leifasumi]

I actually missed the stream and I just so some clips on twitter, let me just say I am absolutely shocked and disgusted at what I saw. This is not the DOA I was getting excited for and I can already tell the DLCs will be even worse than DOA5's fetish costumes. that part with Bass and Nyotengu was extremely uncomfortable and it's the reason why nobody will take DOA seriously (once again).

 

[Providence]

Can someone explain to me why people are ASSUMING that the Nyo/Bass thing was a "rape joke"?

If we're really going to play into this fictional context, considering her face expression, everything looked 100% consensual, she looked like she was having the time of her life.

Back on topic:
The events of this stream are objectively the best thing that could have happened, because it exposed the hypocrisy within the FGC and their obvious bias against DOA. It's no coincidence that the players who act as if they're to prudish to play DOA, are the same people who used to complain about the battle system design, the same people say holds should be removed, danger zones should be removed, they're only good in other fighting games, but they can hide that now by claiming that DOA violates their "core values".

As for the actual long time players of this franchise, we've been playing the series for so long that we've forgotten that getting new players requires a "hook" to get their attention, and that every one of them has the potential to become a long time fan, or even a committed and dedicated player.

We've been entrenched within this game series for many years, some us for over two decades, it's easy to forget that this game franchise had to reach out to us too in the beginning. People can explain the mechanics until they're blue in the face, but it means nothing until they see something that interests them enough to pick up the controller and play, and after that initial hook does its job, then the gameplay speaks for itself. Itagaki himself understood this, and is the reason the first DOA had fake physics in the first place, to get eyes on the game, then when they play it, they discover there's a fantastic game to justify the absurd eye candy.

So instead of condemning people for the reason the game got their attention, welcome them instead, and show them what ACTUALLY makes the game good while they're here.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Eh...you've not been the only one who saw through their charade day one.

I think most of FSD saw through it. My evidence for that is the number of people who trashed FSD as some SJW website over it because they wouldn't believe us when we told them to chill out.