Why is DOA 5 considered non-competitive ?

[DR2K]

Other than the complete lack of trademark aesthetics, music, levels, modes, and costumes, sure, why not. having a couple of costumes from previous games does not come anywhere near close to DOA levels of costumes. Especially when a good handful of the costumes are palette swaps rather than alternate costumes, proper.

It has levels were shit happens, costumes from older games, levels from older games, and all DOA games have palatte swaps. I guess the lack of team battle might make it feel like a completely different game if you have no legitimate arguement and are completely reaching for no reason.

 

[SilverKhaos]

It has levels were shit happens, costumes from older games, levels from older games, and all DOA games have palatte swaps. I guess the lack of team battle might make it feel like a completely different game if you have no legitimate arguement and are completely reaching for no reason.

So what you're saying is that you have no legitimate counterargument to me pointing out that nearly everything that made DOA games memorable is missing from DOA5.

The levels in DOA5 are bland and lifeless compared to previous games. The music is so utterly bland that I hardly even notice its there, whereas in previous games the music was so amazing that it dictated the flow of the fight for me. I loved rocking out to the character themes as I fought. Now DOA5 has...what...a crappy amateur "rap" song in the online menu, and Tina's DOA4 theme as the wrestling ring music. Outside of that, I can't recall anything else.

The entire menu system got overhauled, and not in a good way. Whereas before it was blue/silver, sleek, and unique, now its red/black, grungy, and generic.

There's nothing outside of the actual gameplay that is even vaguely DOA anymore. And even that has almost pulled a 180, in that it used to be based on player skill, and now its leaning more towards the usual execution and muscle memory.

 

[Berzerk!]

He's not lying, that's a fact. Akira's inputs are easier in DOA5 than VF5FS (VF5FS itself is a little easier than prior VF).
What a weird thing to get upset about. Raansu is actually being fairly restrained and not making so many personal attacks, not so hard with factual statements readily available to counter each point made.

I don't understand this:

DOA4 had a fantastic fighting system behind it. Incredibly simple to pick up and play, very comfortable on inputs, but very difficult to play extremely efficiently because of the inherent pros and cons of the counter system. That didn't make the game bad though, it made it much much better than the competitors. DOA4 was a collection of well thought out tools within the game to be manipulated and taken advantage of. The music was different, the levels were different. That being said, the best thing DOA4 could have benefited from was simply being updated with more content, more characters, and essentially everything else that other fighter's in the past 7 years improved upon. That would have been the perfect DOA5, but instead DOA5 is this ridiculous harder-than-virtua-fighter Virtua Fighter knockoff that's missing content, doesn't have as much stage variety, doesn't have character themes, has weakened holds, and looks and feels more like a combination of Tekken and Virtua Fighter rather than a continued patently unique Dead or Alive game.

DOA5 has the same quality of simple to pick up and play, comfortable inputs (they are the same!!), with a definite (and more meaningful than DOA4) learning curve.

What is harder than VF5 about DOA5? The games are similar, but I wouldn't, as a tournament level VF player, put DOA5 on the harder side. The inputs are easier, the situations are generally less complex.

The great thing about DOA5 is that it has added and refined gameplay elements that give it more solid, rewarding situations (wall hits, crumple stuns, better frame data and guaranteed damage in multiple aspects of the game, solidifying additional strategies eg grapplers can now compete in their own playstyle) - but it hasn't lost that accessibility, you can just hit buttons to start with and get moves out. You can attack out of disadvantage like before, but now there's a reason to smartly play both offensively and defensively.

As an actual fighting game, there's no substance to the criticisms especially compared to DOA4.

If you're unhappy with cosmetic elements like the modes and stages, then that's another story, but it doesn't take away from the important thing of the actual fighting system. I also happen to disagree, and there is just tons to do in DOA5, same as DOA4, with arcade, time attack, survival, and most importantly a much improved training mode.

If you don't actually play competitively with other people, you're probably comparing the game on a different basis than most of the people here and if you do not play the game with others, you would have to admit that difference in perspective and experience with what the game is.

 

[Berzerk!]

There's nothing outside of the actual gameplay that is even vaguely DOA anymore. And even that has almost pulled a 180, in that it used to be based on player skill, and now its leaning more towards the usual execution and muscle memory.

Items of personal taste (cosmetics like menus and music) aside, you cannot back up the claim that DOA5 is based LESS on player skill. It is definitely demanding of more skill to win. You have the same basic mindgames and approach of DOA4, so that game is essentially still there under the hood, with added elements which require skill and sometimes, yes, practice, to employ.

Play some VF5FS and tell me its not a skillful game full of mindgames and choices - but with a good proportion of situations that require skillful techniques or knowledge to capitalize on and get extra damage for winning the mindgame - DOA5 has moved more in that direction in this edition. That's a very good thing and worth exploring. But its most definitely still DOA and it is not mindless and mechanical execution - you still have to mindgame your opponent as the key skill.

 

[Raansu]

I know you're fucking lying. You better zip up your trap right quick.

And you would know this how? You don't even own the game. Anyone who was played FS then DoA5 has laughed at how much easier Akira's inputs are in DoA5.

 

[SilverKhaos]

Items of personal taste (cosmetics like menus and music) aside, you cannot back up the claim that DOA5 is based LESS on player skill. It is definitely demanding of more skill to win. You have the same basic mindgames and approach of DOA4, so that game is essentially still there under the hood, with added elements which require skill and sometimes, yes, practice, to employ.

Play some VF5FS and tell me its not a skillful game full of mindgames and choices - but with a good proportion of situations that require skillful techniques or knowledge to capitalize on and get extra damage for winning the mindgame - DOA5 has moved more in that direction in this edition. That's a very good thing and worth exploring. But its most definitely still DOA and it is not mindless and mechanical execution - you still have to mindgame your opponent as the key skill.

I havent played much VF, outside of the original game and renting 5 once. And I still win mostly through mindgames. However, the game now rewards the execution more than it did.

But I say it takes less skill because they are adding in more things that cater to free/guaranteed damage. Aka, damage that is FREE, as in, takes no skill to land. They are catering more to kids who want their hands held the entire time. (Rig is a perfect example of this).

Its still DOA, but it takes less skill than previous DOAs, from my experience. Its way too easy to get damage in from offense now. Yet another reason I stick to playing defense: More challenging. Defense is way harder than it used to be, in comparison.

 

[Prince Adon]

Wtf? Akira is definitely more easier in DOA5 than he is in VF.

Another note. I don't see how the music, menus...etc Is a issue here(except I can understand the rap song in the online menu which is one song). The music always changed from DOA to DOA game. The only time it stayed the same was the various DOA2 games(DOA2, hardcore, ultimate...etc). DOA5 has more costumes than DOA4(especially with the DLC still coming). They took out Leon and Ein Lacking clones and replaced them with newer characters(Rig, Mila). Unique characters with original move sets. Also added Alpha(who was only playable in DOAD). I don't really see how people act like this game lack content. The only thing they took out completely was Team Battle. Which isn't NEEDED. Just like online Survival/Team Battle isn't NEEDED.

The levels sucked in DOA4 compared to 5. Most of them were way too small and just sh**. Dodging eviromental hazards in that game was also silly. If you want to talk about crappy game design look at DOA4.

Now on to the fighting. I'm sorry DOA5 craps on DOA4. Also I agree with those who say DOA5 is definitely much more of a DOA game than 4. How do doa5 feel like a completely different game? I've been playing DOA since the first game first came out and DOA5 infact is a doa game. Only difference is you get more guaranteed situations and the finer frame data. The things that are "new" to DOA5 doesn't make it less of a DOA game, but a BETTER DOA game. The game takes much more skill to play.

 

[SilverKhaos]

Wtf? Akira is definitely more easier in DOA5 than he is in VF.

Another note. I don't see how the music, menus...etc Is a issue here(except I can understand the rap song in the online menu which is one song). The music always changed from DOA to DOA game. The only time it stayed the same was the various DOA2 games(DOA2, hardcore, ultimate...etc). DOA5 has more costumes than DOA4(especially with the DLC still coming). They took out Leon and Ein Lacking clones and replaced them with newer characters(Rig, Mila). Unique characters with original move sets. Also added Alpha(who was only playable in DOAD). I don't really see how people act like this game lack content. The only thing they took out completely was Team Battle. Which isn't NEEDED. Just like online Survival/Team Battle isn't NEEDED.

The levels sucked in DOA4 compared to 5. Most of them were way too small and just sh**. Dodging eviromental hazards in that game was also silly. If you want to talk about crappy game design look at DOA4.

Now on to the fighting. I'm sorry DOA5 craps on DOA4. Also I agree with those who say DOA5 is definitely much more of a DOA game than 4. How do doa5 feel like a completely different game? I've been playing DOA since the first game first came out and DOA5 infact is a doa game. Only difference is you get more guaranteed situations and the finer frame data. The things that are "new" to DOA5 doesn't make it less of a DOA game, but a BETTER DOA game. The game takes much more skill to play.

The music, menus, color palette, and stages missing is a big deal because it changes the entire atmosphere. Imagine if Main Street in disneyland suddenly switched to an Oil Refinery instead of an old timey avenue, but all the shops were still there. Same kinda thing.

As for characters, its missing content in that Leon, Ein, and arguably Tengu are missing, though that was only due to time constraints, and I look forward to them in the next game.

5 has absolutely zero good levels, unless you count the wrestling ring. None of them are visually appealing, most are just generic grunge, with no color or anything, which was always a hallmark of DOA: the stunning visuals. DOA4 at least had the sakura garden, the monkey staircase, the nightclub, Doatec tower, etc etc. The only level in DOA5 with any sort of engaging visuals is the jungle. And there's nothing THERE. I was expecting the snake to be a hazard, at least, but NOTHING. In DOA5, the safari and jurassic jungle levels had hazards all over the place, and both were beautiful to look at. DOA5...again...nothing special. Every level is boring to look at, and boring to play. In past DOAs I always had favorite levels (Doatec tower, the forest, and ninja base in DOA3, Clock tower, Forest, Great Wall, and the other chinese rooftops level in DOA2U, Jurassic Park, Safari, Nightclub, Vegas Strip in DOA4) that I'd pick. in DOA5? Don't care, I let it sit on random, since the levels suck and there's almost no real difference between most of them.

Those "more guaranteed situations" are EXACTLY why I don't like it as much as past games, and consider it to take less skill. Having to work for each hit you land takes more skill than using a setup to land a bunch of free hits. Again, if they made it so the opponent could counter of all juggles/combos, we'd be in a game based ENTIRELY on player skill, and that would be fantastic (Though I do think they'd need to use a 6 point hold system to balance that out, plus a few other tweaks.). Sure, you could juggle/combo in previous games, but they are much easier to do now.

 

[d3v]

The problem is that Degalon is literally unable of understanding the neutral game and how having a good neutral game means that getting hits in isn't free.

 

[Stikku]

Items of personal taste (cosmetics like menus and music) aside, you cannot back up the claim that DOA5 is based LESS on player skill. It is definitely demanding of more skill to win. You have the same basic mindgames and approach of DOA4, so that game is essentially still there under the hood, with added elements which require skill and sometimes, yes, practice, to employ.

Play some VF5FS and tell me its not a skillful game full of mindgames and choices - but with a good proportion of situations that require skillful techniques or knowledge to capitalize on and get extra damage for winning the mindgame - DOA5 has moved more in that direction in this edition. That's a very good thing and worth exploring. But its most definitely still DOA and it is not mindless and mechanical execution - you still have to mindgame your opponent as the key skill.

DOA5 is fundamentally different than DOA4, and by extent - every DOA. It's not "essentially still there under the hood." It's a brand new engine with wonky disregard for what made DOA such a fantastic series in the first place. The reduction of holds as a viable strength is a reduction of what makes DOA unique against VF or Tekken.

DOA has always been about skill, just as much as any other fighter - except it played out differently. It didn't play out less, it just played out on a different path. Some people couldn't adjust, but that didn't make DOA a bad series - and being a fan of the series enough to make an account on a DOA-only forum should mean you should be able to recognize that. DOA5 hasn't moved more toward the direction of "requiring skill," but rather it's moved more toward the direction of "being a VF knockoff" considering the fundamental changes under the hood. Everything about this game screams "Virtua Fighter", and not even VF5FS. It's more like VF3 with fancy graphics and dramatic explosions. That wouldn't be so bad if VF4 and VF5 weren't better, nevermind every DOA since VF3. That's not to say that DOA5 doesn't require skill to play, it's just been pushed in the opposite direction of what made DOA skillsets unique in the first place. It's a fighting game, it's just not a DOA. The only thing that makes it "DOA" is having *most* of the DOA character roster and that they *mostly* still have the same attacks (by command-input, not be reaction of attack properties).

 

[SilverKhaos]

Actually, I think thats a better way to summarize my feelings.

Previous Dead or Alive games kept a very unique feeling and experience. DOA5 just feels really generic.

I popped in DOA3, 2, and 4 earlier to make sure I wasn't just using nostalgia goggles, and sure enough, when playing those, I had this "HOLY CRAP I'M PLAYING DEAD OR ALIVE!" feeling because of all the stuff missing from DOA5. Whereas in DOA5, Its less "I'm playing Dead or Alive", and more "I'm playing a fighting game."

 

[Raansu]

I havent played much VF, outside of the original game and renting 5 once. And I still win mostly through mindgames. However, the game now rewards the execution more than it did.

But I say it takes less skill because they are adding in more things that cater to free/guaranteed damage. Aka, damage that is FREE, as in, takes no skill to land. They are catering more to kids who want their hands held the entire time. (Rig is a perfect example of this).

Its still DOA, but it takes less skill than previous DOAs, from my experience. Its way too easy to get damage in from offense now. Yet another reason I stick to playing defense: More challenging. Defense is way harder than it used to be, in comparison.

I'm getting tired of you going "herp derp free damage." That's not how it works.

Those tools are designed to create a meta game that benefits both parties because while you are fighting at neutral both parties are going through their head with the possible outcomes of the tools that each character has to their disposal. A Jann Lee player wants you to fear his dragon gunner so he can work in his mid game mix up. A Hitomi player wants you to whiff so she can slam you into the wall for a wall juggle. It's all about using those tools to create fear, to force your player to make mistakes. Without those tools the game just becomes completely random, and there is no skill in random, it's just...random.

If you'd actually spend 5 minutes and listen to people when you play them instead of going "oh he's just comboing so I'm going to stop playing" BS and actually learn the mechanics of the damn game you'd understand why these tools are good and how they work. But instead you just go "herp derp free damage, games holding your hand" when that's not even whats going on. Best way to put it is in fighting games the neutral game is like chess and once you break the neutral game it becomes checkmate.

 

[SilverKhaos]

The problem is that Degalon is literally unable of understanding the neutral game and how having a good neutral game means that getting hits in isn't free.

No the problem is that you are literally incapable of understanding that the entire core concept behind juggles is free hits.

I know the neutral game. Thats my entire playstyle. I just don't do the followups. Granted, I may not understand all the terminology, as I don't research, I just play and learn as I go. But I know the concepts.

If you can land a hit and the opponent is unable to retaliate and/or defend against it. That is a free hit. There is no arguing this. managing to land a hit normally does not justify getting to land several free hits afterwards.

If you want to take advantage of free hits, feel free. Just don't make excuses/try to justify that it takes skill to hit someone who can't defend against it.

 

[Stikku]

I'm getting tired of you going "herp derp free damage." That's not how it works.

Those tools are designed to create a meta game that benefits both parties because while you are fighting at neutral both parties are going through their head with the possible outcomes of the tools that each character has to their disposal. A Jann Lee player wants you to fear his dragon gunner so he can work in his mid game mix up. A Hitomi player wants you to whiff so she can slam you into the wall for a wall juggle. It's all about using those tools to create fear, to force your player to make mistakes. Without those tools the game just becomes completely random, and there is no skill in random, it's just...random.

If you'd actually spend 5 minutes and listen to people when you play them instead of going "oh he's just comboing so I'm going to stop playing" BS and actually learn the mechanics of the damn game you'd understand why these tools are good and how they work. But instead you just go "herp derp free damage, games holding your hand" when that's not even whats going on. Best way to put it is in fighting games the neutral game is like chess and once you break the neutral game it becomes checkmate.

Theres a difference between landing an attack or throw that gives simple frame advantage, compared to landing an attack or throw that literally guarantees a follow-up attack. It really is "free damage" in doa5.

 

[Prince Adon]

The music, menus, color palette, and stages missing is a big deal because it changes the entire atmosphere. Imagine if Main Street in disneyland suddenly switched to an Oil Refinery instead of an old timey avenue, but all the shops were still there. Same kinda thing.

As for characters, its missing content in that Leon, Ein, and arguably Tengu are missing, though that was only due to time constraints, and I look forward to them in the next game.

5 has absolutely zero good levels, unless you count the wrestling ring. None of them are visually appealing, most are just generic grunge, with no color or anything, which was always a hallmark of DOA: the stunning visuals. DOA4 at least had the sakura garden, the monkey staircase, the nightclub, Doatec tower, etc etc. The only level in DOA5 with any sort of engaging visuals is the jungle. And there's nothing THERE. I was expecting the snake to be a hazard, at least, but NOTHING. In DOA5, the safari and jurassic jungle levels had hazards all over the place, and both were beautiful to look at. DOA5...again...nothing special. Every level is boring to look at, and boring to play. In past DOAs I always had favorite levels (Doatec tower, the forest, and ninja base in DOA3, Clock tower, Forest, Great Wall, and the other chinese rooftops level in DOA2U, Jurassic Park, Safari, Nightclub, Vegas Strip in DOA4) that I'd pick. in DOA5? Don't care, I let it sit on random, since the levels suck and there's almost no real difference between most of them.

Those "more guaranteed situations" are EXACTLY why I don't like it as much as past games, and consider it to take less skill. Having to work for each hit you land takes more skill than using a setup to land a bunch of free hits. Again, if they made it so the opponent could counter of all juggles/combos, we'd be in a game based ENTIRELY on player skill, and that would be fantastic (Though I do think they'd need to use a 6 point hold system to balance that out, plus a few other tweaks.). Sure, you could juggle/combo in previous games, but they are much easier to do now.

That isn't a lack of content that's just more of your preference. The only thing considered a "lack" of content is that Ein, Tengu and Leon weren't added. But who gives a fudge about Tengu? No one. He was just thrown in DOA4 just to say we have another character. Ein and Leon is the only ones that is debatable, and even then it is considered minor considering most people can live without and just don't care. Maybe they'll add them in the future. Maybe they won't. I don't see anyone caring(Except Leon and Ein players). And I'm not saying they were bad characters, either.

Also, how do guaranteed damage make the game take LESS skill? If anything it adds to more skill. When you're being punished, or put on defense you have to get out of that situation with more than just a "hold". It also make you more careful of trying to abuse the "hold" system. It forces the defender to think rather than just throw out random holds. A good player is going to punish you. How is that less skill? Not to mention the punish window, and how many tools you can punish with when put in a guaranteed situation. Also, when put in a unholdable stun you still have the options to slow escape. So everything isn't as guaranteed as you think. Sounds like you really should spend more time with the game rather than worrying about what the content is or isn't.

 

[Stikku]

That isn't a lack of content that's just more of your preference. The only thing considered a "lack" of content is that Ein, Tengu and Leon weren't added. But who gives a fudge about Tengu? No one. He was just thrown in DOA4 just to say we have another character. Ein and Leon is the only ones that is debatable, and even then it is considered minor considering most people can live without and just don't care. Maybe they'll add them in the future. Maybe they won't. I don't see anyone caring. And I'm not saying they were bad characters, either.

Also, how do guaranteed damage make the game take LESS skill? If anything it adds to more skill. When you're being punished, or put on defense you have to get out of that situation with more than just a "hold". It also make you more careful of trying to abuse the "hold" system. It forces the defender to think rather than just throw out random holds. A good player is going to punish you. How is that less skill? Not to mention the punish window, and how many tools you can punish with when put in a guaranteed situation. Also, when put in a unholdable stun you still have the options to slow escape. So everything isn't as guaranteed than you think. Sounds like you really should spend more time with the game rather than worrying about what the content is or isn't.

Slow escaping in a game with 1 frame counter holds is fucking stupid, you realize that right? Slow Escaping itself is a stupid concept that only belongs in 2D fighters for shaking Dizzy stuns, but the fact it's in DOA doesn't even make sense considering there's a far better option. If you think slow escaping is skillful in DOA, you're not very skillful. Then again, you refer to your opponent throwing out "random holds" when, by design - that is the exact opposite reason they're implemented in the game. Random Holds would obviously benefit the attacker and wouldn't be something to bitch about. In the very same sense, I could say that "mashing out a random combo with blatant disregard against a possible hold" is fully unskillful in every way that matters - and I'd be right.

Basically, what justifies DOA5 having less viable holds is that a few players in their respective communities bitched and whined because they were awful at Holds and thought every hold that ever caught them was "Random". So really, DOA5 speaks to those babies - but furthermore, it punishes everyone else who actually did understand the full concept of DOA (which would represent a majority of the DOA market). DOA5 holds are less viable because stuns have been increased, and the actual damage that holds do has been reduced. I read a post somewhere of someone saying holds in DOA5 are more like a "slap on the wrist" rather than a "round-changing mechanic," and that just doesn't fly. The Triangle RPS system of previous DOA's catered equally to each corner of the triangle. You could choose a character and decide to play them by being exquisite in Combos, exquisite in Holds, and/or exquisite in Throws. Killing hold viability is killing a whole third of what makes your game unique.

But holds aren't the only place that suffers because of this. When holds are, by technical reasons, changed enough to be thought of as a more useless option, so in turn are proper throw setups. The most damaging throws always connect off a whiffed hold. So really, killing hold viability has also killed throw viability, making DOA5 a very, very, very simpleminded combo-attack oriented game.

 

[Raansu]

Those "more guaranteed situations" are EXACTLY why I don't like it as much as past games, and consider it to take less skill.

if they made it so the opponent could counter of all juggles/combos, we'd be in a game based ENTIRELY on player skill, and that would be fantastic.

Ironic considering a good chunk of guaranteed setups in DoA5 were also in DoA2 and DoA3. If you actually bothered to play those games and learn the tools you might actually know that, but you didn't and now you are criticizing one game while praising the other when both have almost identical setups.

No, it would be a game based entirely on being random. Being random doesn't take any skill at all.

I popped in DOA3, 2, and 4 earlier to make sure I wasn't just using nostalgia goggles, and sure enough, when playing those, I had this "HOLY CRAP I'M PLAYING DEAD OR ALIVE!" feeling because of all the stuff missing from DOA5. Whereas in DOA5, Its less "I'm playing Dead or Alive", and more "I'm playing a fighting game."

And yet on a technical level DoA5 still plays like a mixture of DoA2U and DoA3.1 with a bit of DoA4's stun game while DoA4 played absolutely nothing like any of the previous DoA games.

It's more like "Holy crap I'm playing like a casual and living in nostalgia and not knowing what I'm talking about!"

If you want to take advantage of free hits, feel free. Just don't make excuses/try to justify that it takes skill to hit someone who can't defend against it.

No, that's called the reward. The skill is GETTING to that point. Reading your opponents defense and winning in the neutral game. This is the concept you don't seem to be grasping. You don't seem to get the entire risk/reward factor here.

 

[Prince Adon]

Slow escaping in a game with 1 frame counter holds is fucking stupid, you realize that right? Slow Escaping itself is a stupid concept that only belongs in 2D fighters for shaking Dizzy stuns, but the fact it's in DOA doesn't even make sense considering there's a far better option. If you think slow escaping is skillful in DOA, you're not very skillful. Then again, you refer to your opponent throwing out "random holds" when, by design - that is the exact opposite reason they're implemented in the game. Random Holds would obviously benefit the attacker and wouldn't be something to bitch about. In the very same sense, I could say that "mashing out a random combo with blatant disregard against a possible hold" is fully unskillful in every way that matters - and I'd be right.

SE isn't even used much in doa5 considering there isn't many situations where it is useful(besides when in unholdable stuns) which makes it useful. Also the fact you compared it to a dizzy stun in SF makes that hilarious. The crap you're even saying make me question if YOU are even skillful. Don't waste your time answering that btw. Also I don't complain about random holds. I welcome them. Because I punish people that do them. Especially in DOA5 where holding is supposed to be done more carefully. Who is complaining? I'm just making a point that you're turning into something else because you lack an argument.

 

[d3v]

No the problem is that you are literally incapable of understanding that the entire core concept behind juggles is free hits.

They're only free if you're opponent is free. If the opponent made you work for them, then they're not.

I know the neutral game. Thats my entire playstyle. I just don't do the followups. Granted, I may not understand all the terminology, as I don't research, I just play and learn as I go. But I know the concepts.

Apparently you don't if you think that getting in extended damage is free. Unless you have terrible defense, then then the guy who got in worked his ass off to get those hits. More importantly, both of you knew the risks involved and the consequences of failing at the neutral game.

If you can land a hit and the opponent is unable to retaliate and/or defend against it. That is a free hit. There is no arguing this. managing to land a hit normally does not justify getting to land several free hits afterwards.

I earned that free hit by getting in on him and getting a hit confirm in.

If you want to take advantage of free hits, feel free. Just don't make excuses/try to justify that it takes skill to hit someone who can't defend against it.

Missing the point. The point is that it takes skill to get in. The free hits are the reward for getting in and practicing so that you could maximize your damage.

 

[DR2K]

So what you're saying is that you have no legitimate counterargument to me pointing out that nearly everything that made DOA games memorable is missing from DOA5.

The levels in DOA5 are bland and lifeless compared to previous games. The music is so utterly bland that I hardly even notice its there, whereas in previous games the music was so amazing that it dictated the flow of the fight for me. I loved rocking out to the character themes as I fought. Now DOA5 has...what...a crappy amateur "rap" song in the online menu, and Tina's DOA4 theme as the wrestling ring music. Outside of that, I can't recall anything else.

The entire menu system got overhauled, and not in a good way. Whereas before it was blue/silver, sleek, and unique, now its red/black, grungy, and generic.

There's nothing outside of the actual gameplay that is even vaguely DOA anymore. And even that has almost pulled a 180, in that it used to be based on player skill, and now its leaning more towards the usual execution and muscle memory.

The levels have a lot more going on and have no random elements attached to them(cheetas, dinosaurs, cars, etc. . .) I'm sure you miss all the "skill" there.

You realize that you're complaining about a menu? This menu is more functional than having to scroll all the way through to find what you want.

Execution and muscle memory are skills, being able to randomly hold out of every situation blindly is not. Which is what you're calling skill by the way.

Skill, lol. Seriously drop this game and every other fighter while you're at it, go back to DOA4 so you and Stikku can start a showing the world why DOA4 takes all this skill. Of course that will require one of you to own a copy of DOA4.