AK The Savage
Member
Probably because hes got alot of good mid kicks/punches to crush her stance?
Pseudo-force tech setups
- Thread starter shinryu
- Start date
So since the other force tech thread kind of died: I think this is threadworthy as it's important enough for general strategy discussion. Basically, it looks like several characters have setups from juggles where advantage can be guaranteed, since either the attack used to end the juggle will force tech or the attack's animation will end in time to effectively grant advantage if the opponent techs. This effectively means these characters can totally eliminate the threat of wakeup kicks or other wakeup attacks from their juggles and keep up pressure. This is obviously a huge advantage. This is also distinct from the true force techs that are possible from some hard knockdown situations. There may be some true force techs from juggles but these seem to be very difficult to get.
I'll list the pseudo-force techs I know. Numbers are from memory and should be reasonably accurate. If you know of more please let me know.
Tina: 6pp6k 8p juggle ender. Force techs at +22 on 8p hit, is effectively +7 or so if it whiffs. 8p alone is a true force tech juggle ender, but this is difficult to time.
Bayman: 9k launch, p+k: +20 force tech on hit, +5 or so on whiff. 6ppk juggle ender, if final k is delayed gives +16 on hit, uncertain advantage on whiff. May be genuine force tech juggle ender if timed correctly.
Bass: 6kk juggle ender. +19 force tech on hit, +7 or better on whiff.
Helena: 33p4p ender. Gives a BKO 6p to tech at +6, or can continue 6p string on whiff. 236pk 1k BKO cancel juggle ender: Gives opportunity for BKO 6p tech at +20, or at least +6 advantage if teched. BKO 6p can be teched but I think the frames are better than off the 334p.
I'm sure there are others, but this is an incredibly powerful tool. You do give up some damage to get these setups but for the slower characters the opportunity to continue pressure can be invaluable. It also really does take the wakeup kick out of the equation from a lot of these characters' knockdowns. I'm of the hope this is an intentional bit of design and is not patched out. It adds strategic choice.
I'll list the pseudo-force techs I know. Numbers are from memory and should be reasonably accurate. If you know of more please let me know.
Tina: 6pp6k 8p juggle ender. Force techs at +22 on 8p hit, is effectively +7 or so if it whiffs. 8p alone is a true force tech juggle ender, but this is difficult to time.
Bayman: 9k launch, p+k: +20 force tech on hit, +5 or so on whiff. 6ppk juggle ender, if final k is delayed gives +16 on hit, uncertain advantage on whiff. May be genuine force tech juggle ender if timed correctly.
Bass: 6kk juggle ender. +19 force tech on hit, +7 or better on whiff.
Helena: 33p4p ender. Gives a BKO 6p to tech at +6, or can continue 6p string on whiff. 236pk 1k BKO cancel juggle ender: Gives opportunity for BKO 6p tech at +20, or at least +6 advantage if teched. BKO 6p can be teched but I think the frames are better than off the 334p.
I'm sure there are others, but this is an incredibly powerful tool. You do give up some damage to get these setups but for the slower characters the opportunity to continue pressure can be invaluable. It also really does take the wakeup kick out of the equation from a lot of these characters' knockdowns. I'm of the hope this is an intentional bit of design and is not patched out. It adds strategic choice.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Because Gen Fu completely wipes the floor with her. He has a faster jab, faster mid's, higher damage, more safe moves, better crushes, better stun game and his mid parry eliminates 99% of her move list. It was this way in DOA4 too, unfortunately Helena got universally nerfed and Gen Fu didn't so the match up is even harder for her now.
On topic the only one I am familiar with is Helena's BKO grab one which has already been listed.
My understanding this was only from the BKO throw unless she can get into BKO quickly enough from other launchers? This works from normal stance and should work on everybody (need to test on Bass to be sure). Also, the frames appear to be much better whether they tech or not. The true force tech is only +6 or something?