D.I.D. 8: Aftermath

[SilverKhaos]

A note that most people seem to always forget.

The way people use a character, is not always the way a character was meant to be used.

I say that in regards to when people are talking about what a characters main tools/tactics are/should be.. For example, (Entirely hypothetical, I'm not talking about a specific DOA character) if people found out a grappler's strikes were more effective/combo friendly than their grapples...the priority should not be to focus on reinforcing the strikes, it should be to tweak the GRAPPLES to make them the top option when using the grappler. See what I'm sayin? So when speaking about what you'd change/remove, try to keep in mind how the character was originally designed, not solely how people wind up using them, or how you want to use them.

I'm not saying this in response to any particular post, or even a specific topic, just throwin that out there.

 

[HiguraShiki]

A note that most people seem to always forget.

The way people use a character, is not always the way a character was meant to be used.

I say that in regards to when people are talking about what a characters main tools/tactics are/should be.. For example, (Entirely hypothetical, I'm not talking about a specific DOA character) if people found out a grappler's strikes were more effective/combo friendly than their grapples...the priority should not be to focus on reinforcing the strikes, it should be to tweak the GRAPPLES to make them the top option when using the grappler. See what I'm sayin? So when speaking about what you'd change/remove, try to keep in mind how the character was originally designed, not solely how people wind up using them, or how you want to use them.

I'm not saying this in response to any particular post, or even a specific topic, just throwin that out there.

Umm, forgive me but doesn't that kind of play into what we mean. Helena is a mixup character. She can't mix up well enough because she is usually at a disadvantage when blocked, doesn't that mean they should tweak her frame data? It doesn't really play into the point of making the character have ridiculous force techs. Then again you said it wasn't a response to any particular post, just wanted to comment on it.

 

[Rikuto]

Lmfao someone over there is a little butthurt over a tech that's not even guaranteed to hit in the first place. Maybe if you learned Helena you would understand how she works. She's slow enough to get throw punished on almost half of her moves and any 2P can knock her out of her BKO stance transitions on block. Why the hell would this tech be dumb if everything else she has is close to shit?

I will prolly get a warning for this but idc.

Uh what? "I was also strong armed into doing the commentary crap to begin with, so you really think I felt like being there? Think again." Alright let me think........






If you didn't want to commentate, let the organizer know! Grow some balls sir, shit. You could've ruined peoples perceptions on Dead or Alive 5. Fuckin grown ass man whining on camera cause you think something shouldn't be in the game. That makes no sense at all to me. Street Fighter people don't say shit about the brokenness that's in that game, but once ONE miniscule thing blows up in your face you get mad.

Honesty can never be real if bias is involved.

I can agree on the Marvel comment cause that game does suck, bad point on my part.

1. I know Helena well enough due to my years of experience actually competing in the game. Don't think for a moment you know even half as much as I do.

2. I made it known I didn't feel like commentating, but no one else was volunteering and they kept badgering me so I did it. Grown ass men step up and get shit done, but that doesn't mean it always comes without a price attached.

3. I didn't "Whine" about anything. The shit is broken and I said it was broken. Honest commentary. The only reason you can't handle it is because your main is involved. Bias indeed.

 

[dawnbringer]

2. I made it known I didn't feel like commentating, but no one else was volunteering and they kept badgering me so I did it. Grown ass men step up and get shit done, but that doesn't mean it always comes without a price attached.

I think you did a decent job commenting grand finals. I never expect fighting game matches commentary be completely objective either. The guy texting during grand finals made unfavourable impression though.

 

[Roroko]

I just find it amusing that:

1. Rikuto keeps telling online players to attend offline tourneys.
2. An online player, in his first offline tourney, beats Rikuto.
3. Rikuto launches into a tirade and tells online players that their opinions ain't worth shit.

 

[CrimsonCJ]

I just find it amusing that:

1. Rikuto keeps telling online players to attend offline tourneys.
2. An online player, in his first offline tourney, beats Rikuto.
3. Rikuto launches into a tirade and tells online players that their opinions ain't worth shit.

Hm. Community building works in mysterious, deep ways I must not be privy to.

 

[Batcommander]

Amazing grand finals. Well done, Master and Mamba!

 

[DR2K]

Eh, Helena's (psuedo)force tech doesn't grant her anything guaranteed. Not sure how this can be considered broken, especially considering it's for a character that doesn't have many strong tools to begin with, outside the guess system of course.

 

[Rikuto]

I just find it amusing that:

1. Rikuto keeps telling online players to attend offline tourneys.
2. An online player, in his first offline tourney, beats Rikuto.
3. Rikuto launches into a tirade and tells online players that their opinions ain't worth shit.

So where is this tirade? I think I was defending myself from an overly whiny helena player that didn't appreciate The Truth™.

E Mann on the other hand, already admitted that tech is bullshit.

 

[dawnbringer]

Eh, Helena's (psuedo)force tech doesn't grant her anything guaranteed. Not sure how this can be considered broken, especially considering it's for a character that doesn't have many strong tools to begin with, outside the guess system of course.

Force tech guarantees mix-up opportunity, and she has good mix-ups to make use of it. I think not every character have as good mix-ups on forced tech.

 

[Dr Sexual]

I dont know enough about this new tech firsthand to make a personal call on it but doesnt it usually take multiple tournament examples of something like this being a problem to call it broken?

Like has there even been enough time for people to try and develop counter tech for it? Or is it something so egregious that we can come to the conclusion that it will never be beatable already.

 

[Prince Adon]

I dont know enough about this new tech firsthand to make a personal call on it but doesnt it usually take multiple tournament examples of something like this being a problem to call it broken?

Like has there even been enough time for people to try and develop counter tech for it? Or is it something so egregious that we can come to the conclusion that it will never be beatable already.

Give it a couple of weeks. It will die down. Really most likely more tournaments will sort if out.

 

[dawnbringer]

I dont know enough about this new tech firsthand to make a personal call on it but doesnt it usually take multiple tournament examples of something like this being a problem to call it broken?

It's super easy to call something broken, anyone can do this any moment.

Like has there even been enough time for people to try and develop counter tech for it? Or is it something so egregious that we can come to the conclusion that it will never be beatable already.

Which is why good stuff should be used whether someone calls it broken or not. This is a part of game which we play. Find the most broken stuff and use it. Everyone have to deal with it. (N.B. This is mostly for competitive matches. Casual matches with friends may be exception, depending.)

Even if a patch comes out that changes something, for the meantime we need to deal with any discovered bullshit.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I dont know enough about this new tech firsthand to make a personal call on it but doesnt it usually take multiple tournament examples of something like this being a problem to call it broken?

Like has there even been enough time for people to try and develop counter tech for it? Or is it something so egregious that we can come to the conclusion that it will never be beatable already.

Rikuto lost to an online player who used it and therefore it's "broken". Anyone who has experience with other fighting games especially old school games knows exactly what "broken" is and this is not it.

It's a good set up but it is in no way broken, especially for a character who struggles in so many areas to begin with.

 

[DR2K]

Force tech guarantees mix-up opportunity, and she has good mix-ups to make use of it. I think not every character have as good mix-ups on forced tech.

How can something that isn't guarnateed to hit be broken?

It's a bullshit tool I can agree with that, but it's for a character that has jack shit I disagree.

It's like giving a midget stilts in a basketball game.

 

[Rikuto]

Rikuto lost to an online player who used it and therefore it's "broken". Anyone who has experience with other fighting games especially old school games knows exactly what "broken" is and this is not it.

It's a good set up but it is in no way broken, especially for a character who struggles in so many areas to begin with.

It's the same exact shit that Helena has had since DOA 4 and it's what put her on top in 4. Now she has even easier access to it and you guys are acting like this is new and we can find a way around it?

No, you can't. If you had a way around it, it would have been found in the last seven years. You guys think I'm going over the top, but you don't even know your history or what it is you are even talking about. It was stupid in 4 and it's stupid now.

But 4 was just so stupid in general, who the hell cared.

Helena needs buffs in general, but this is over the top. No.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

It's the same exact shit that Helena has had since DOA 4 and it's what put her on top in 4. Now she has even easier access to it and you guys are acting like this is new and we can find a way around it?

No, you can't. If you had a way around it, it would have been found in the last seven years. You guys think I'm going over the top, but you don't even know your history or what it is you are even talking about. It was stupid in 4 and it's stupid now.

But 4 was just so stupid in general, who the hell cared.

Helena needs buffs in general, but this is over the top. No.

I didn't say there was a way around it, all I'm saying is calling it broken is going too far.

 

[Rikuto]

I didn't say there was a way around it, all I'm saying is calling it broken is going too far.

If there is no way around something, how the hell isn't it broken?

 

[dawnbringer]

How can something that isn't guarnateed to hit be broken?

I don't call it broken. And even if I would, this would not mean this is a bad tool. If you want me to share my thoughts about guaranteed setups, please restate your question without using word "broken".

It's a bullshit tool I can agree with that, but it's for a character that has jack shit I disagree.

Then use it to your advantage. If "broken" stuff is good for your character, then what is the problem? People may call it broken until they figure ways around it, or even afterwards, or for no reason at all. You have no power to stop them calling "broken" stuff they don't want to get around.

 

[Dr Sexual]

If it was so bad in 4 then why didnt Helena dominate in every single tournament played?