Now that people have played Soul Calibur 5, how do some of you feel about DOA5's "Super Moves"?

[Awesmic]

I'm probably gonna sound stupid making this suggestion, but I strongly believe it must be said, and I hope you guys can bear with me on where I'm going with this. So here goes.

Personally, I think the whole system regarding Power Blows and Cliffhangers should be optional, and that includes interactive dangerzones. (It'd be like SSBB, but without the moving stages and Final Smash techniques). That way, those who want to play a traditional, old school DOA without the additional bells and whistles DOA5 may offer won't feel left behind. The player should have the option of having fixed arenas with damaging walls... the stage doesn't change, and each tier of the stage is fixed. As far as falling off multi-tiered stages, like Sypher said, they can get away with cinematic falls here, except it'll be a guaranteed fall rather than a 50/50 during a Cliffhanger. By that logic, they'll still get that feeling of flashiness when knocking the opponent off a tier of a stage, and the old-school DOA player won't feel completely left behind in the new "fighting entertainment" experience, as they say.

 

[x Sypher x]

Oh ok, thanks Mr. Wah.

And Awesmic, if it makes you feel better, I like your suggestion. No need to be cautious man, your point of view is always welcome.

 

[Rikuto]

That's kind of like when Master said to include both a 3 point counter system and a 4 point counter system option.

The problem with trying to appease everybody with including tons of gameplay altering options is that you end up creating unavoidable community divide and appeasing nobody. This can end up hurting the game in the long run. Just look at how things are with normal life vs largest now. People are STILL turning into salty rage monsters over that bullshit, even on a dead game! We've had the same issue in the past with dangerzones, some tournaments left it on, some turned it off, most didn't care, but there was drama that had to be worked through and it was not pleasant.

Furthermore, if there is an option to turn off an entire gameplay aspect one has to ask themselves why this is the case. If it is seen as such a horrible part of the game that the community must entirely remove to even make it playable, why is it in the game in the first place?

If they were intelligent enough to create an option to turn it off, they should be intelligent enough to not put it in the game in the first place. All that's doing is training a new generation of players to play under false conditions as if it was the norm. When they finally turn into competitive butterflies they will start feeling annoyed that they have to re-learn the game.

Most likely though, we would try to play DOA 5 as it was intended and not use such options. This too would render the option entirely pointless unless the game was found to just be absolutely broken which, again, feeds into the question -- why is this nonsense in the game in the first place?

 

[grap3fruitman]

I don't really think the devs would take too kindly to the suggestion that they make the entire basis of the game, over the top action or "entertainment," off.

 

[x Sypher x]

I don't really think the devs would take too kindly to the suggestion that they make the entire basis of the game, over the top action or "entertainment," off.

You make it sound like the basis of "fighting entertainment" lies solely in the introduction of power blows and cliffhangers. Which could be possible, but we have yet to see what direction they are taking this idea in its entirety.

 

[Arnell Long]

That is true Sypher, but based off the little we know from the Previews and Team Ninja's statements, it seems like that "Fighting Entertainment" value is what they're aiming for, now later trailers and hands on previews will give more insight on this whole idea.

It'll suck though if DOA5 has these QTE moments while still retaining DOA4's overall counter system..

 

[Rikuto]

I don't really think the devs would take too kindly to the suggestion that they make the entire basis of the game, over the top action or "entertainment," off.

Yea and they probably should have thought of that before they started introducing retarded elements into the game. They dug their own hole on this one.

It always astounds me how far japanese developers are willing to alter long-standing franchises with dedicated fanbases without even consulting ambassadors from the core community. I don't know if it's out of honest ignorance, ego driven artistic vision, or simply spite.

It's really fucking annoying though.

To quote Adam Sessler on corporate Japan,

Your dick is under your foot. Lift your foot.

 

[Awesmic]

Oh ok, thanks Mr. Wah.

And Awesmic, if it makes you feel better, I like your suggestion. No need to be cautious man, your point of view is always welcome.

Going by the last few posts, I haven't been cautious enough before I got too vocal. But I can't help but believe I'm being tested to actually stand up and make an argument. I mustn't disappoint this time.

You made some good points in your rebuttal, but to be fair, Rikuto, don't most other fighting games have game settings that can also be customized? Health settings? Or round settings? Or timer settings? This stuff wasn't just exclusive to DOA4, last time I checked, and you're making sound as if it was the only one. Maybe the issue of health settings seemed a more outstanding debate among the existing community at the time, but certainly not exclusive. There was always a way to work around a common agreement there, but the community was so small and divided at the time that it was difficult to find a majority say on the matter, which sucked for DOA4. Now me personally, the health settings didn't bother me much, and I play a character with a relatively weak damage output.

But for the sake of argument on the subject of the upcoming DOA5 features, let's say things went a not-so-subtle way with the Power Blows and Cliffhangers. What if in the first 3 months of serious dissection of the finalized game, it has been concluded and proven they weren't viable competitively? Would the option of having the feature turned off help it's viability then, if not hurt it?

 

[Arnell Long]

DOA4's problem with the Health is the Counter system damage, definitely guessed Critical Stun Counters. Character Counters were so unbalanced that someone like Hayabusa could take damn near 60+ percent off one well timed counter and even more so off a ledge, where's to someone like Christie would be like 35 percent. So however you set the Health, characters would be affected, definitely the lower end ones.

I can bet money if Team Ninja gives people the option to turn off the QTE moments, people would keep them off, definitely in any competitive form. Hopefully down the line things can shape up more so we can further understand this whole ordeal.

 

[Rikuto]

You made some good points in your rebuttal, but to be fair, Rikuto, don't most other fighting games have game settings that can also be customized? Health settings? Or round settings? Or timer settings?

Round settings and timer settings yes.

Health settings sometimes. It becomes an issue in DOA because too much damage is given too easily.

This stuff wasn't just exclusive to DOA4, last time I checked, and you're making sound as if it was the only one. Maybe the issue of health settings seemed a more outstanding debate among the existing community at the time, but certainly not exclusive.

No, the health issue is pretty much exclusive to the DOA community because DOA is a pretty flawed game that rewards bullshit guessing with large amounts of damage. If you removed the ability for people to choose you would remove the divide.

But any game that has a large amount of random factors is going to have shitloads of community divide when you give the game options to disable it. The amount of ridiculous rules and stage banning in Smash is insane. Similarly games like Halo end up changing their core competitive ruleset several times a year because someone is suddenly convinced that it is how the game "should" be played.

There was always a way to work around a common agreement there, but the community was so small and divided at the time that it was difficult to find a majority say on the matter, which sucked for DOA4. Now me personally, the health settings didn't bother me much, and I play a character with a relatively weak damage output.

We got a majority say. Several times in fact. There were multiple polls, and internal discussions among the top players. Every single time we came to the majority conclusion to go with normal life.

Regardless of that, people like Master decided to say "Well fuck the community, I alone know better than everyone who disagrees with me plus it's my tournament so I'm gonna do what I want."

So now you have two standards as a result of that.

But for the sake of argument on the subject of the upcoming DOA5 features, let's say things went a not-so-subtle way with the Power Blows and Cliffhangers. What if in the first 3 months of serious dissection of the finalized game, it has been concluded and proven they weren't viable competitively? Would the option of having the feature turned off help it's viability then, if not hurt it?

I'm not sure I understand you. Not viable as in not effective? If they were not good, we wouldn't need to disable them. If you mean not viable as in they don't fit the bill for a competitive game to exist, then yes it would help to be able to disable it.

But here is the thing, it would help far more if it wasn't in the game at all. Even if it isn't good for the game, you'll always have people who are playing at a much lower skill level arguing to keep it in the game because it gives them a crutch to lean on. Banning shit makes people get emotionally butthurt and quit, so its better to have a scenario where the need for a ban never took place.

Furthermore, the more development time the game has with or without a certain design aspect in mind, the better it's going to play overall. The earlier this shit gets axed the better.

We're at the stage in development this could still be reality.

 

[ScattereDreams]

SC5 Critical edge... Eh.. some are over powered and, some are too damn weak. The damage scaling is awkward as well. Nightmare's depending on the CH type can dish out to atleast 70% damage; It's naturally a guard impact so if you do get hit by it on run counter then you deserve whatever damage is coming. Algol can combo into his overpowered bs. Astaroth.... I'd rather him have just a powerful Critical Edge then a over powered follow up. 22_88B ~ BE version (Oh yeah i'm super salty).

This makes me wonder now how will DOA5 supers work (I totally forgot what they were originally called). Will they have invulnerability/invincibility on startup like Critical Edges in SCV? Or will they just behave like regular charge attacks in DOA4 with more glossy special effects?