Character development *Future patch discussion*
- Thread starter MajesticBlue
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MajesticBlue
Active Member
If 6K stuns that would be great. I actually think I would rather it stun on counter hit then launch. Even though 6K airgrab is decent at least we would have a midk kick stun.
Juan The Man
Active Member
6k 10f jab 9t now an oh....my peayers have been answer ps3 guys let me know how this turns out
cip
Member
We lost this buff in the new patch notes:
"3K: changed hit reactions from crouching Counter hit or higher to sit-down stuns."
Other than that, the Hayabusa changes are identical in both patch notes, as far as I can tell.
"3K: changed hit reactions from crouching Counter hit or higher to sit-down stuns."
Other than that, the Hayabusa changes are identical in both patch notes, as far as I can tell.
Juan The Man
Active Member
Thank you ive been waiting to hear something about hayabusa...so for the the most part the patch is an buff for him right? (Kinda sad to be an xbox owner right now)
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
Is the expert hold the same as it was in the alpha build?
I didn't really know it existed in the alpha build unlike most since the 3point system really threw me off.
But as I understand it, basically yeah. That's it.
Yeah, mostly a buff. Shoho Izuna also does a whopping, hold your breath, 3 more damage. =P
Guess any bit helps.
Juan The Man
Active Member
Thanks!
cip
Member
Is this basically the same animation as the Ongyoin throw?
cip
Member
Okay, I just got the patch.
My first impressions:
My first impressions:
- 6K and 6KK seem to be the greatest buffs. 6K is +38 on normal hit, 6KK is full launcher.
- 4P6P and the like don't down the opponent but stun now. On counter hit for 23F.
- 4 H+K and SS K are the same now. They seem to give an 33P if the opponent doesn't stagger escape and 8 K if they do. 3 P seems guaranteed. Need more testing here, this is crucial. Edit: 33P can only be held with perfect stagger with not one frame missed. So yeah. 4 H+K, 33P4, K, 8P, airthrow is a new BnB, especially since 4 H+K is safe on block. SS K does bounce on Counter and Hi Counter, so the damage output is less.
- SS P gives nice stun on hit (25F).
- Advanced mid kick hold only does 58 damage instead of 50 from normal hold
- P+K4 seems quite strong, is -3 on block.
- 6KP and Ninpo 8P now guarantee airthrow from bounce. (6KP only if 6K didn't hit)
- Izunas off cliffs are brutal (I miss Ryus old yell though )
Izuna juggles now do less damage than Izuna drop if on Hi counter.- Izuna juggles off ceilings do less damage than before the patch but are still ridiculous.
But it looks so glorious!Advanced mid kick hold only does 58 damage instead of 50 from normal hold
I'm confused, what exactly changed here? Are there now more stages he can do this off of (besides Ends of the Earth/Raft)? The damage seems to be the same as before, just with a smaller life bar. Can't confirm because the move data in training mode doesn't display the izuna cliff damage for some reason.Izunas off cliffs are brutal (I miss Ryus old yell though
Have his juggles been nerfed? The Izunas still deal the same damage as pre-patch.
cip
Member
True! Still, I'd prefer a combo hold for the damage of the Ninpo throw
He couldn't do Izunas off cliffs before, could he?
After further testing, only the juggles after an Izuna into the ceiling have been nerfed: "Removed Counter adjustments after ceiling throws. Even Hi Counter follow up attacks act like normal hits." I can't seem to get an Izuna juggle that does as much damage as the Izuna drop without having a wall nearby. But that may just be me
I'll go into further testing now
Holy crap!
Alright I fooled around a few hours with Busa and I would like to share my findings.
First let's clarify some of the changes mentioned for him.
- 6KK launches like in DOA 4 and it guarantees an air throw on all heights.
- 6K is his best stun period. Like 3P but does more damage. Finally he has a good mid kick stun.
- 3K, PP4P6P, 4P6P, 66P: these cause a stun but not a sit down stun as advertised. The stun is huge but still decent. Since you can delay these strings and mix low and the mid kick that guard breaks, this is not bad. I haven't tested these that much though so if someone saw something I didn't let me know.
P+K4 is actually good to use after a stun or two because the transition into ongyoin is fast and you can mix up between shoho izuna and his knee launcher.
- 88 or 22K is good although still slow. But it's super safe and gives a sit down stun.
So this is all great but the best is not what was advertised specifically for Busa but changes to vertical kicks not being techable.
I have found a few untechables for mid weights and they are evil! I haven't found much for lightweights and heavys yet so feel free to help out.
To test these out, make sure you put the computer on recovery on and to high punch as secondary actions.
Make sure you test on mid weights (hayate, jan lee, Helena, etc):
Mid weight untechables (not pseudo):
Mid weights:
CH, 4K, K, PP4PK
CH, 6K, 4K, K, PP4PK
CH, 3P, 4K, K, PP4PK
CH, 3P, 6K or vice versa, 8K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3P, 6K or vice versa, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3PP, 8K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3PP, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3P or 6K, 214P, dash in P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 6K, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 66P, P+K4, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3P or 6K, 4F+K, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
Izuna, 66K, K, 8P, PP4PK.
Failure turns this juggle into a pseudo.
Genfu:
CB with P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
Izuna, 66K, K, 8P, PP4PK (strict).
Failure turns this combo into a pseudo.
Heavy:
CB, 4K, K, PP4PK.
Please help out, pseudos are good as well!
Alright I fooled around a few hours with Busa and I would like to share my findings.
First let's clarify some of the changes mentioned for him.
- 6KK launches like in DOA 4 and it guarantees an air throw on all heights.
- 6K is his best stun period. Like 3P but does more damage. Finally he has a good mid kick stun.
- 3K, PP4P6P, 4P6P, 66P: these cause a stun but not a sit down stun as advertised. The stun is huge but still decent. Since you can delay these strings and mix low and the mid kick that guard breaks, this is not bad. I haven't tested these that much though so if someone saw something I didn't let me know.
P+K4 is actually good to use after a stun or two because the transition into ongyoin is fast and you can mix up between shoho izuna and his knee launcher.
- 88 or 22K is good although still slow. But it's super safe and gives a sit down stun.
So this is all great but the best is not what was advertised specifically for Busa but changes to vertical kicks not being techable.
I have found a few untechables for mid weights and they are evil! I haven't found much for lightweights and heavys yet so feel free to help out.
To test these out, make sure you put the computer on recovery on and to high punch as secondary actions.
Make sure you test on mid weights (hayate, jan lee, Helena, etc):
Mid weight untechables (not pseudo):
Mid weights:
CH, 4K, K, PP4PK
CH, 6K, 4K, K, PP4PK
CH, 3P, 4K, K, PP4PK
CH, 3P, 6K or vice versa, 8K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3P, 6K or vice versa, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3PP, 8K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3PP, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3P or 6K, 214P, dash in P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 6K, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 66P, P+K4, 8P, PP4PK.
CH, 3P or 6K, 4F+K, P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
Izuna, 66K, K, 8P, PP4PK.
Failure turns this juggle into a pseudo.
Genfu:
CB with P+K4, K, 8P, PP4PK.
Izuna, 66K, K, 8P, PP4PK (strict).
Failure turns this combo into a pseudo.
Heavy:
CB, 4K, K, PP4PK.
Please help out, pseudos are good as well!
cip
Member
What does this mean exactly? That 8KK can't be tech rolled for instance? I don't understand the terminology.
I also don't know what CH stands for. Counter hit?
It's hard to explain as it's not clear to what moves the system change applies to. All it did for Busa though is that his PP4PK string now connects as an untechable juggle when certain conditions are met. Busa is +20 after it. With his guard breaks and his 214P that sits down and give advantage on block untechables are a blessing. Not to mention he can mixup with 8T now since it's an OH.
And yes CH means counter hit.
I'm currently away from home, but am so excited about these changes.
First, is shoho izuna/33P still guaranteed after ceiling stun?
Second, could someone help out and look into options after my untechables?
So far, this is what I've been pondering about:
There's obvisouly 4T, his WS OH. That beats out anything for decent damage. The only thing it won't cover is crouch or crouching attacks. I would mix it up with 214P for the simple fact that it's a mid attack that will beat out anything on screen and crouching. As you all know, when it hits it causes a sitdown stun that guarantees his 33P launcher. Furthermore, it gives +2f if blocked allowing to still keep pressure if your opponent guesses right. Naturally it can always be held or sidestepped if you use it too much, but that's why there's his OH. But just to be safe, we could mix in another good mid which leads me to his 66K. First, it's a mid kick so if they try to hold 214P that get's them and it will also beat out anything on screen. Second it can GB for decent advantage if blocked (more than 214P) and on hit it offers a ninpo kick, Shoho Izuna or Ninpo throw mixup. still, as much as this move looks awesome on paper, I'm skeptical because it automatically goes into ongyoin... which I personally hate. I mean a 12 frame low will still beat me out unless I use 6P+K, so I feel I'm wasting my untechable. The move is decent on hit thought. And then, there's the Izuna Otoshi that can be used, but that's more of a risk, although it can lead into another untechable and force the situation again.
What do you all think?
First, is shoho izuna/33P still guaranteed after ceiling stun?
Second, could someone help out and look into options after my untechables?
So far, this is what I've been pondering about:
There's obvisouly 4T, his WS OH. That beats out anything for decent damage. The only thing it won't cover is crouch or crouching attacks. I would mix it up with 214P for the simple fact that it's a mid attack that will beat out anything on screen and crouching. As you all know, when it hits it causes a sitdown stun that guarantees his 33P launcher. Furthermore, it gives +2f if blocked allowing to still keep pressure if your opponent guesses right. Naturally it can always be held or sidestepped if you use it too much, but that's why there's his OH. But just to be safe, we could mix in another good mid which leads me to his 66K. First, it's a mid kick so if they try to hold 214P that get's them and it will also beat out anything on screen. Second it can GB for decent advantage if blocked (more than 214P) and on hit it offers a ninpo kick, Shoho Izuna or Ninpo throw mixup. still, as much as this move looks awesome on paper, I'm skeptical because it automatically goes into ongyoin... which I personally hate. I mean a 12 frame low will still beat me out unless I use 6P+K, so I feel I'm wasting my untechable. The move is decent on hit thought. And then, there's the Izuna Otoshi that can be used, but that's more of a risk, although it can lead into another untechable and force the situation again.
What do you all think?
cip
Member
Yep, they are. They just don't count as Counter or Hi Counter anymore, even if the Izuna throw did.
And I don't like the 66K
It whiffs so much in my experience.