Yes or No to Patch?

[DR2K]

Out of curiosity, who do you think Mila is better than at the moment?

Zack, Eliot, Rig, Alpha, Bass, Tina, Brad, Hitomi, etc. . . I'd say with all her nerfs she's a character that can deal with any other character just fine. She's not disadvantaged when it comes to speed, starting up the stun game and hitting like a truck.

 

[Tokkosho]

didnt hitomi get some pretty good buffs?

 

[Rikuto]

You mean those same system mechanics that let you take 40% of my health if you guess right at almost any point during those loops? Those same system mechanics that give me a small stage and make it easy for you to put me in a 50/50 wall reset? Those same system mechanics that don't give me any kind of real movement to space out or really even avoid getting pinned down with my back to a wall against Bayman? Sure, let's talk about those system mechanics...

>_>

I guarantee you had a better logical way of avoiding the wall in those small stages than I did of avoiding your tackle in ANY kind of space. The damage might be in my character's (specifically, my character) favor for reversing your loop, but the odds still are not. Bayman doesn't even have any real "get in" like Mila does, so if I manage to push you all the way to a wall its entirely your fault. Furthermore, if I do all the work and deception required to get you to the wall and try to loop you, that too can be reversed for major damage by any character who has the balls to actually high counter throw me.

So yea, you might say I'm doing a hell of a lot more work than Mila when it comes to trapping.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Tina doesn't look that bad. Really? Is she? She is safer and still solid. Rig's CB won't help, but are you guys sure he is still that bad?

I'm not quite certain for the rest.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Furthermore, if I do all the work and deception required to get you to the wall and try to loop you, that too can be reversed for major damage by any character who has the balls to actually high counter throw me.

I love using Helena's 4F+P on people who try to OH me into the wall. It's at it's funniest when it's done by people running with an OH. They come hurtling towards me like "YAAAA!!!" and just go flying off in the opposite direction.

 

[MasterHavik]

If you're playing online or against people who aren't really good she's fine. You just have to play her like a DOA4 character. Stun to launch! Yay...

I hear Zack is pretty good...you knowpeople like MasterHavik, Hoodless, Jr, and Rd play him. You should try him out man.

 

[Zeo]

Out of curiosity, who do you think Mila is better than at the moment?

Rig

Seriously doubting that. Rig is incredibly slept on in this game and he's a high-top tier in disguise with all the buffs he's gotten in this new patch, nevermind the crazy sit-down game he already had.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

How could they buff Helena's 236P+K ? That move is useless but I like it.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

How could they buff Helena's 236P+K ? That move is useless but I like it.

They could attach baguettes to her arms to increase it's range, that would help.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

They could attach baguettes to her arms to increase it's range, that would help.

Can't they give it a special stun or something ? Or at least make it useful so you can use BKO_CB right after it ? Or give it 160 extra damage or something, I don't know.
It is so sad, they should make it her main move, cause.. it is very beautiful as heaven.

 

[DrDogg]

Zack, Eliot, Rig, Alpha, Bass, Tina, Brad, Hitomi, etc. . . I'd say with all her nerfs she's a character that can deal with any other character just fine. She's not disadvantaged when it comes to speed, starting up the stun game and hitting like a truck.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I guarantee you had a better logical way of avoiding the wall in those small stages than I did of avoiding your tackle in ANY kind of space. The damage might be in my character's (specifically, my character) favor for reversing your loop, but the odds still are not. Bayman doesn't even have any real "get in" like Mila does, so if I manage to push you all the way to a wall its entirely your fault. Furthermore, if I do all the work and deception required to get you to the wall and try to loop you, that too can be reversed for major damage by any character who has the balls to actually high counter throw me.

So yea, you might say I'm doing a hell of a lot more work than Mila when it comes to trapping.

And if the tackle was the only nerf we wouldn't be having this conversation. Although, I think the tackle is at least somewhat comparable to tank roll.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Can't they give it a special stun or something ? Or at least make it useful so you can use BKO_CB right after it ? Or give it 160 extra damage or something, I don't know.
It is so sad, they should make it her main move, cause.. it is very beautiful as heaven.

I think it should be +9 on block honestly. It would still be very hard to land but at least there would be some pay off to it. Some moves are just useless in this game, her 6P+K is a good example of this.

 

[d3v]

Yes if you're on PS3 because the stagger-escape "glitch" makes this the game the most competitive it's been.

 

[Rikuto]

And if the tackle was the only nerf we wouldn't be having this conversation. Although, I think the tackle is at least somewhat comparable to tank roll.

Well, let me put it this way... I don't really care if someone is really good, or kinda bad, or whatever. I hate talking balance.

I care if something contributes to stupid gameplay, however, and that did. The rest of her changes I'm pretty much neutral on. As far as tank roll goes its... kinda comparable, yea. I can admit to that much. But if you look at what it actually gives bayman in terms of damage? Eh.. its not exactly the end of the world, and it certainly doesn't loop if you break it. There is more than enough distance after the break that even with frame advantage, pretty much everything can be backdashed away from.

 

[DR2K]

Seriously doubting that. Rig is incredibly slept on in this game and he's a high-top tier in disguise with all the buffs he's gotten in this new patch, nevermind the crazy sit-down game he already had.

I'll wait for someone to prove me wrong, but I don't think he's impressive in real life matches. He's kind of like Pai on paper, great in theory, but not so much in terms of execution.

 

[SilverKhaos]

CH 7P P+K is no longer a sit-down stun. This kills her CH 7P loop.

SS tackle is SIGNIFICANTLY slower. You MIGHT be able to use it with really, really good timing, but any loops are out of the question.

SS Punch is unsafe. Couple this with the SS Tackle nerf and her SS game is now one of the weakest of the entire cast.

Basically, if you remember how I play Mila... EVERYTHING I used with her is now useless except 3H+K. EVERYTHING.



Helena is only good once you're stunned, and the only way for her to open you up is with one of her lows that stun on normal hit. Against someone with decent defense, those aren't going to hit much. Just ask Mamba when he played against me at SCR. He didn't win because he used Helena or attempted the PFT. He won because he was a good player. Any other Helena player would've been rocked. She has nothing now...



I can beat Alpha online with relative ease. Offline it's not even a challenge. Sure there might be one or two really good Alpha players, but she wasn't better than Jann Lee, Leifang or any of the actual good characters. Now she's far weaker.



Tell me then, what does Mila have now that makes her at least a solid mid tier?



I don't care about the buffs. I didn't think they were necessary, but good for those characters. Buffs for everyone! It's the nerfs that make no sense!

Few things (just going by the sound of it, not tryin to make you angry)

1) Loops aren't really a concern. Those were just a bonus to begin with. At least if you mean what I think you mean by "loops".
2) Slower Sidestep tackle is still a sidestep tackle, so it SHOULD still work for the main use of it, ducking under an attack and punishing it with the tackle, since its ducking under then armor, or did they remove one of those two features?
3) SS punch being unsafe should only be an issue if you are just...doing it. I don't really see how unsafe would be an issue if say, you sidestep an attack and punish with the punch. Aka, the point of a sidestep. It's like when people complain that Helena's moves are "unsafe". Something being "unsafe" doesn't really matter when the opponent is being knocked around, lol.
4) I've always known Helena as one of the hardest characters to read (along with brad wong) due to the erratic moveset, so mixup and mindgames always seemed like their best bet. True that defense is her bane, though you can still bait and feint much better than most characters due to her stance.
5) Beating Alpha isn't an issue. She's still capable of flying around the arena, and still has (or had, depending on this patch) those insane combos that go on FOREVER with very little effort. Playable boss, which is always a bad idea.
6) You are a good Mila, so I don't see why losing a few loops should be screwing you over this badly. Just take a step back, re-examine her adjusted moveset, and adopt a new strategy.

From what you are saying, it sounds like the only issue is you can't combo into certain things anymore. Now granted, that was never my playstyle to begin with so it doesn't affect me as much, but my point is that Mila seems to be still perfectly playable, all her moves are still there, just a few of them have slightly different properties. Don't throw in the towel just because a character got slightly tweaked!

 

[uyko112]

Few things (just going by the sound of it, not tryin to make you angry)

1) Loops aren't really a concern. Those were just a bonus to begin with. At least if you mean what I think you mean by "loops".
2) Slower Sidestep tackle is still a sidestep tackle, so it SHOULD still work for the main use of it, ducking under an attack and punishing it with the tackle, since its ducking under then armor, or did they remove one of those two features?
3) SS punch being unsafe should only be an issue if you are just...doing it. I don't really see how unsafe would be an issue if say, you sidestep an attack and punish with the punch. Aka, the point of a sidestep. It's like when people complain that Helena's moves are "unsafe". Something being "unsafe" doesn't really matter when the opponent is being knocked around, lol.
4) I've always known Helena as one of the hardest characters to read (along with brad wong) due to the erratic moveset, so mixup and mindgames always seemed like their best bet. True that defense is her bane, though you can still bait and feint much better than most characters due to her stance.
5) Beating Alpha isn't an issue. She's still capable of flying around the arena, and still has (or had, depending on this patch) those insane combos that go on FOREVER with very little effort. Playable boss, which is always a bad idea.
6) You are a good Mila, so I don't see why losing a few loops should be screwing you over this badly. Just take a step back, re-examine her adjusted moveset, and adopt a new strategy.

From what you are saying, it sounds like the only issue is you can't combo into certain things anymore. Now granted, that was never my playstyle to begin with so it doesn't affect me as much, but my point is that Mila seems to be still perfectly playable, all her moves are still there, just a few of them have slightly different properties. Don't throw in the towel just because a character got slightly tweaked!

Yea Dr. Dogg stay in there!!!

 

[DrDogg]

Few things (just going by the sound of it, not tryin to make you angry)

1) Loops aren't really a concern. Those were just a bonus to begin with. At least if you mean what I think you mean by "loops".
2) Slower Sidestep tackle is still a sidestep tackle, so it SHOULD still work for the main use of it, ducking under an attack and punishing it with the tackle, since its ducking under then armor, or did they remove one of those two features?
3) SS punch being unsafe should only be an issue if you are just...doing it. I don't really see how unsafe would be an issue if say, you sidestep an attack and punish with the punch. Aka, the point of a sidestep. It's like when people complain that Helena's moves are "unsafe". Something being "unsafe" doesn't really matter when the opponent is being knocked around, lol.
4) I've always known Helena as one of the hardest characters to read (along with brad wong) due to the erratic moveset, so mixup and mindgames always seemed like their best bet. True that defense is her bane, though you can still bait and feint much better than most characters due to her stance.
5) Beating Alpha isn't an issue. She's still capable of flying around the arena, and still has (or had, depending on this patch) those insane combos that go on FOREVER with very little effort. Playable boss, which is always a bad idea.
6) You are a good Mila, so I don't see why losing a few loops should be screwing you over this badly. Just take a step back, re-examine her adjusted moveset, and adopt a new strategy.

From what you are saying, it sounds like the only issue is you can't combo into certain things anymore. Now granted, that was never my playstyle to begin with so it doesn't affect me as much, but my point is that Mila seems to be still perfectly playable, all her moves are still there, just a few of them have slightly different properties. Don't throw in the towel just because a character got slightly tweaked!

1. Loops are what made you fear Mila. It's why I would still think I'm in the fight even if I'm really low on health. Without them, I have to just hope the opponent guesses wrong and I magically avoid a counter. I will not play DOA4 again, and that's exactly what Mila is post-patch: stun and hope for the best.

2. You could react to SS tackle before. I could even do it online. There was no reason to slow it down unless Team Ninja felt it was too good after the SS buff. If that's the reason (and the ONLY reason), then I'd rather have the old SS and tackle. I could actually use the old SS. This new one is useless to me given Mila's nerfs.

3. This is a game with a 0-frame counter and the ability to free-cancel at almost any point in time. I can time my sidestep perfectly, but if the opponent free-cancels, that SS attack is unlikely to hit. With safe SS P, at least it wasn't a big risk. Now that it's unsafe, it becomes a risk. My only safe SS option is a high, and that's almost riskier than going for an unsafe attack in this game. You can sneeze and crush a high attack.

4. She's not hard to read, just block. She can't open you up.

5. When she flies around the arena it's a free juggle for the opponent. Those insane combos are relatively easy to block. The only one that wasn't has now been nerfed. She is a playable boss, but was not top tier by any means. Now she's a one trick pony with that throw and nothing else.

6. I examined Mila for the last four months (longer than that if you count guide work). I know what she has and doesn't have. She's no longer competitive. Could I play with new Mila? Sure. Could I even win with new Mila? Against average players, probably. Can I compete with good players using new Mila? Not a chance, unless I stop using proper strategy and just start crossing my fingers and guessing.

All of the top Mila players have dropped her. Her nerfs were unwarranted and I'm not going to thank Team Ninja for it by forcing myself to keep playing the character. They nerfed Helena, so I switched to Mila, now they nerf Mila for no reason. I'm done.

 

[DR2K]

They buffed Helena, come back to the Bokuho side. Drop the red headed step child.

 

[Project Bokuho]

They buffed Helena, come back to the Bokuho side. Drop the red headed step child.

Yes sir!