I Used To Be The Wind... Then I Took A Nerf To My Moveset - Hayate Breakdown

[TakedaZX]

WARNING: THIS BREAKDOWN IS OUTDATED AND DOES NOT APPLY TO DOA5U

Update : April 11th, 2013
Dropping a link to my DOA5 blog about ideas to help Hayate in this game. Some changes are crucial and others would just be nice. Check it out. [Here]

Hayate Breakdown

By Tommy "TakedaZX" Patterson

Special Thanks:
Team-Ninja Studio
Perfect Legend and Silent Legend, Inspirations for playing Hayate
Tenryuga, for working with me on Hayate tech
Itagaki, for giving Hayate another chance to shine high even if only one more time before, RIP DOA4 Hayate...

...and more importantly my supporters...

Thank you.

Transitioning From DOA4 to DOA5

​

Well first I want to start of by welcoming back our old DOA4 veterans and also welcoming the new players of DOA5. It's been a long time coming, but DOA5 finally arrived with a altered core and a bunch of changes in intentions to improve the game.

Taking a step back into DOA4, we remember that the ninja's were very powerful characters in the series and like in all fighters, they gained the attention of most of the players of the games. Hayate, while not as powerful as Ryu Hayabusa, still stood generally high on the tier list and was a force to be reckoned with.

In short, Hayate was known as a mid-ranged fighter. His moveset consisted of great moves for coming in strong then using that momentum to continuously knock them down over and over. Under pressure he was also given a few tools to push his opponent off of him so that he could get back into his comfort zone.

With all great things, there's always a downside. Hayate was straight forward... predictable... and most of all mid heavy. This by no means meant he couldn't give a good fight. Considering the fact that he was so predictable, it opened up a lot of opportunities for punishing whiffed holds as well as pulling shenanigans with his telegraphed strings.

Things have far changed since then. It's probably safe to say that Hayate took a considerably large fall with changes to system of DOA....

1. The addition of the sidestep system to the game (which caused Hayate to lose the strength in his mid-ranged moves),
2. The loss of the DOA4 style guaranteed forced tech system so that he could continue pressure
3. The emphasis on the slow escape system and unholdable stuns (double edged sword)
4. The fact that many strings were sent to the can and certain moves were moved and changed.

...it seems that Hayate has been left in a some what... "incomplete" state.
​

The more unfortunate side is that he lost a large amount of his [good] moves for reasons beyond my understanding and many others who played him in the previous DOA's...

Here's the list of lost moves:

• pp2p (instant tech crouch, this makes sense to take away)
  • pp2pp (follow up)
  • pp2pk (follow up)
• pp4p (damage nerf would've been better than taking this away. This was a good move)
  • pp4pp (unnecessary to take away)
  • pp4p2k (unnecessary to take away)
• 1k (VERY CRUCIAL)
  • 1kp (VERY CRUCIAL)
  • 1kk (VERY CRUCIAL)
• 2kk (Crucial, in fact it seems stupid to have taken this)
• 236f (This had more value in doa4 but would still be useful here)
  • 236f ~ p (was a NH stun. VERY good)
  • 236f ~ k (was better and could go well in this game)
  • 236f ~ 2k (Crucial)
  • 236f ~ f+p (Not crucial but iconic)
  • 236f ~ 66 (CRUCIAL)
• 1p+k (Acceptable because the new version is better)
• 6f+k (Not [as] crucial but... still a substantial move)
• 4f+k (Crucial... but... it felt nice to have it as a raw move. The DOA5.02 Launcher version was fine as it was but now it's a cross up of this move and that, which isn't exactly a great mix)
• 22k/88k (I really liked this move but I can see why it wasn't kept)

and in addition to that, some of his tools took property nerfs for being too "overpowered":

• 3f+kkp - No longer delayable. -15, -11, -11 (doa4.1), -15, -15, -5 (doa5.02), -15, -15, -13 (doa5.03a) on block.
• Raijin - 80 dmg (doa4.1), 71 dmg (doa5.03a), Nakiryu 65 dmg (always available though)
• ppk/f+k - no longer gives walk away stun, but launches with no external follow up except ppkk/f+kk
• 2H+K or BT 2K variants - All -15 instead of -10, -11, or -13 on block. Stun reduced from +17 on NH to +10
• 214K - No longer launches... which is fine, it just looked cool as a ground bounce launcher.
• (4)KK - Now 4KK and no longer launches though it "crushes" lows now (hardly)... but is now interruptable by just about anything.
• 3K - No longer sit down stuns opponents (though during the 1.03 patch it did sit down stun crouching opponents which was a great tool for punishing people who love to low hold out of stun. It also guaranteed a critical burst which wasn't necessary. An 8p would've sufficed.
• 8P - No longer instant tech crouches.
• Safety issues on a lot of moves. 66p went from -9 to -12, sweeps all -15, 66p+k and all variants -11

As you can see... the list is long, very long, but even still this doesn't mean Hayate is [bad] now, he's just missing a lot of his great tools that would have transitioned well into this game.

His redeeming qualities are his high damage output and relatively deep stuns as well as having a slightly above average attack speed, coming in at 10/12/14 (high/mid/low). Also he holds one of the most powerful 7 frame throws in the game (236T 7k)

His wall game is also pretty deadly. Whether the wall is solid or just an invisible border, he can do some hurtful things, and if he just so HAPPENS to land a ceiling splat, he's going to do some major damage, though his guaranteed combos aren't exactly amazing unless you're going for the guaranteed power blow.

In the end you'll be outsmarting people with reaction timing and wit rather than with tools like the JL's Dragon Gunner, Leifang's Parry Offensive Hold or Mid Kick Hold, Helena's 2H+K and W.G. Blender, or +23 guard breaks. It's hard work against better players... but if you're willing to take the step, you'll get there.

 

[TakedaZX]

Overview​

​

Hayate in DOA5 would be best described as a high risk/high damage character that is bent off of keeping his opponents under false pressure with his ridiculous punishment grab, guard breaks, and low sweeps. You need exceptionally good fundamentals to play him successfully, because he doesn't have a simple way to open someone up like the higher tiered characters (JL - Dragon Gunner, Mid punch and highkick holds, and his 1K) (Kasumi - Her 66T~T and her 1k) (Leifangs Parry OH) (Even Brad's BT throw).

Here's his new weapons:

• 6P+K [Hayate-Gake]- Hayate's new wind dash. It goes into crouching state which is good, but the options out of it are a bit disappointing and uninspired. Transitions into it include pp2k6p+k, 4p6p+k, 7p+k6, and 4(p+k)6
  • 6P+K P - Guard break for +7. Nothing extremely good but it's his best guard break other than his powerblow on block. Pose is 4pp.
  • 6P+K K - doa4 4f+k in a sense. In the doa5.02 patch this was intended to be a secondary launcher from the wind dash but due to certain circumstances the properties were reverted back to their doa4.1 status (knockdown) and the damage remained less than in doa4.1 (30 + 20). He can still launch with it if the first kick pushes over the threshold if he lands the move on a back turned opponent.
    
    The move is also -5 on block so it's great for coming in at a distance for a poke or for whiff punishment, and sometimes it will clip sidestep depending on how early the opponent steps. The move is his best ranged poke and still gives you the mixup opportunity on block since it's safe.
  • 6P+K P+K - doa4 1p+k. This move is actually more useful now since it's mobile launcher. It'd be even better if it tracked since it's a bit linear and somewhat less than useful on normal hit. Otherwise this move is likable.
  • 6P+K T - Hayate finally gets an Oboro (aka Kasumi's 33T). The damage is good and the animation is interesting, but I truly see this as more of a expert mid punch hold animation than a throw. To say the least this a good grab.
• 66(P+K) [Rekkuga] - Hayate's new guard break pressure move. It's generally slow and seeable though it covers and exceptional range. It'd be better if when you cancelled the charge, the strike you're doing gets reduced range. It's problematic to guard lock someone with regular 66P+K, which is far unsafe on block.
  
  All variations are +3 even the full charged 4(P+K) which is 61 frames for the GB. Also these attacks don't scale on ch and hch... which is interesting... take notes. (They still scale in juggle)
  • PP6(P) - Fastest variation. Very hard to react to but kind of useless if you decide to cancel it, unless the opponent likes pressing buttons in the middle of the charge
  • PPP(P) - New ender to ppp. Last punch is -11 on block but the guard break is still an option. Overall I'd say it a pretty nice ender worth taking a look at and utilizing.
  • 66(P+K) and 66P(P) - Interesting Variation. 66PP and 66P+K are the same case as pppp on block.
  • 4(P+K) - Great for whiff baiting and can cancel into the wind dash. Safe on block for lowest charge (-4). Still only +3 on highest charge.
  • 9P(P) - 9pp is a 2 in 1 itself, but the guard break is another option since the second punch is a guard break (though unscaled). 9pp is also -11 uncharged.
  • 4P6P - Not a Rekkuga guard break but still a guard break for +3 so it should be mentioned. This is unfortunately interruptable if the first punch is blocked, but 4p has a bunch of mixups and variations that many times, people won't bother to try. Use it wisely.
• 3PP - New String - Double mid punch combo that sitdown stuns on counter hit. Offers a free 15 frame or lower stun and a free 33k launch as well. It's nice... but it's a double mid punch string which has always been a problem for Hayate (being mid heavy)
• 1K - Not exactly new but back to doa3 style. New mid kick stun, that takes place of the old low kick. I don't approve of the move taking 1k's spot but it's somewhat useful against speed demons who love to start off with spamming out their p strings.
• 1P+K - Power Blow. Regular strike knockdown. Nothing special about this move really other than it being his powerblow. When power blow is available the guard break is worth +16 (+14) which means 6p and 3k are guaranteed. At the wall you can squeeze out a 9p

Along side that, while there were far more changes to Hayate's good tools for the worse, there were some changes in the doa5.02 patch which were mentionable.

• 33kk and 9kkk are -2 on block.
• 214k is +2 on block.
• 8k is again a mid kick and it launches instead of flip knockdown.
• 3k is now safe
• 9pp is now a 2 in 1.
• 4pp is now safe
• 6pk is pseudo safe
• 4kk has a new animation and crushes lows (interruptable by a 13 frame anything though even lows if your opponent is on point... unfortunately)

So overall Hayate has great stuns, a pretty good mid ranged game, and a few nice safe pokes. He lacks in pressure ability in the ways that Christie, Kokoro, Hitomi, and Kasumi can (string pressure). There's no real gimmicks, just straight forward combat.

 

[TakedaZX]

Hayate's Tools​

​

​

TLR Version​

• pp strings
• 6pk - Pseudo safe side step killer string. Fairly useful, but you have to be ready to buffer a grab break at times.
• 4p - Mid punch tracking move with a 4 way mixup, with one of those mixups leading into 4 more options. Main move for highest damage juggles on light and mid weights.
• 1p - Quick low
• 3pp - Mid punch string. 3p offers an uppercut stun on CH and the follow up sit down stuns the opponent, guaranteeing a 33k launcher or any stun coming in at 15 frames or less.
• 3k - Safe deep stunning mid kick. Linear but advantage on NH as well. Great poke to bait out opponents offense.
• 9pp - 9pp works as a 2 in 1. If the intial stun lands the second hit will natural combo and the opponent can't do anything to stop it. That being said, if the second punch is delayed or the guard break is charged instead, the follow up can be held. Nice move for getting a wall splat for a wall combo.
• 1k - Instant high crushing mid kick. Stun isn't very deep and the damage is pretty good. Great for stuffing those players that love to mash out pp strings at the beginning of the match or fast highs in general. Very unsafe on block.
• 236k - 20 frame guard break for +1. It used to be +5. I don't understand why it's not +5 anymore but this is how it is right now. Good for pressuring slower characters or characters of his own speed.
• 66p+k Variations - Guard breaks that give +3. This move can come from a lot of strings and allow Hayate to pressure pretty well.
• 2h+k Variations - Advantage on hit, -15 on block. Weak stun on CH.
• 6p+k - Wind Dash. Good for coming in crushing highs. High mids will be crushed by this as well, like Brad Wong's 4pp. Wind dash p nets +7. Wind Dash k nets a knockdown or -5 on block which is safe and offers the chance at a mix up opportunity.
• 236t and Nakiryu/Raijin - 236T comes in at 7 frames and guarantees a 7k follow up. 236T is Hayate's best unbreakable punishment grab, though it doesn't scale so it will always do 72 damage which is 1 point more than a NH Raijin.
  
  The Nakiryu is a simple combo throw which offers pretty good damage with a ceiling, especially on hi counter. On NH you can experiment with combos instead which could in turn get you more damage since the launcher is guaranteed. A power blow is also an option.
  
  The Raijin is Hayate's highest damage open air throw. For the difficulty it takes to pull it off, the damage is a lot lower than it should be. Master this and you'll have a good time punishing whiffed holds.
• P+K/SS P - Sitdown stun on first hit which guarantees a 8p or stun mixup. Knocks away on Hi Counter hit and in stun. -13 on block, so be careful with it.
• 2/8 P+KP - Special side step attack which gives the highest damage out of all the single hit stuns in Hayate's Arsenal. -9 on block. Use wisely.
• 214pp - Nice for closing distance but the real prize of this move the fact that it sit down stuns your opponent on crouching counter hit. That being said, it has a place in Hayate's arsenal, especially after a ceiling splat. Keep this close.
• 214k - +2 on block. Hayate's only frame trap in his arsenal, period. I honestly prefer if this move is blocked because remain oblivious to the trap which opens the up for Hayate to flush out their options. There's a specific place for this move though... which we'll get into later.

Detailed Version​

• Safe Pokes and String Pressure
  • pp strings - 2/3 way mixup. two mid punch variations with guard break options, low kick mixup that includes the wind dash, and high kick wall splat.
  • 6pk - Pseudo safe mid punch mid kick string. Second kick is fast, tracks, and slightly delayable.
  • 9p - Very safe NH deep stun with a delayable follow up.
  • 3k - Arguably one of his best safe pokes. Advantage on hit and great stun on CH.
  • 2p - Neutral on hit, and -4 on block. Best way to bait opponents to attack since it simply resets the situation to neutral on normal hit.
  • 236p - To my knowledge, this move is safe/pseudo safe unless you're using it against an opponent who's against the wall. In other words it's only safe because of push back. Damage gets buffed by a close hit. I'd call this useful.
  • 4pp - this is safe but I don't use it as a poke really. If I do, I'm trying to knock my opponent down or into the wall.
  • 4p+k - Sometimes this move will scare people into going for a reaction hold. Learn how to cancel it and vary the time and you'll probably get a few good wall hits and such. It can also cancel into the wind dash for a mixup. Try it out. (Uncharged = -4 safe, full charge = +3 guard break)
  • 6p+k k (and 4kk) - Very crucial move in your arsenal. On hit the damage isn't as great as it was but on block it leaves you at -5 (safe) in back turn. 4kk leaves you at the same disadvantage but the nice thing is... you have options:
    
    You can back dash away from pretty much any strike to see what your opponent will do. If they generally mash the attack button you can back dash away and whiff punish them or you can simply block.
    
    If they like to attempt throws, slower ranged moves, or usually throw pp strings, this is where it gets interesting.
    • BT 2p will tech crouch highs and give you a pretty deep stun on CH and HCH.
    • BT 4p will do the same but will be an alternate to BT 2p that doesn't tech crouch highs.
    • BT p will stop hesitant players in their tracks.
    • BT 4k will sitdown stun opponents on CH or HCH.
    • BT 2k will be a good way to put your opponent on the ground or stun them if you want to tech crouch highs and get that effect.
    • BT 7k will damn near immediately crush lows, knockdown opponents for massive damage and is one of you fastest options from back turned but that doesn't automatically make it the best choice. It's -30 on block. Use it on opponents that love to low jab or use slow mids to try and beat you out after they block 6p+kk
    • BT k is pretty useless... but it's here if you find it useful in some other ways. It does wall splat.
• Step Killers
  • 6pk - Second kick tracks. If your opponent likes to SS at disadvantage, this is your move to keep them honest.
  • 4p - Mid punch deep stun that tracks. Holds 4 options after: 4pp is a high punch follow up that
  • 1p - tech crouching low jab that tracks. Has follow ups (mid punch knockdown/wall splat or tracking low kick) and a generally nice stun on CH. Trip stuns on HCH and in stun.
  • 2H+K - Tracking low sweep that gives and ok stun on counter hit. Generally I throw this out to scare my opponent into blocking so that i can throw it out over and over, chunking them until they decide to move, where after I throw a 9p, 3k, 6p/6pk, or 1p.
  • H+K - This move is generally terrible... but it does "track". I like this one next to the wall because it wall splats.
  • 214pp(p)/214pp(k) or h3p(p), h3p(k) - I wouldn't use this in anticipation of step... just because it's tough to get these moves out in general but regardless they do track step. Punches deep stun on NH and launch on CH.
  • 8k and 66pk - I generally don't care for this as a step killer but it does track. You can get a pretty good damage juggle off of this on CH.
  • 6p+k k - This move does not track but it has two kicks. Sometimes depending on your timing both kicks will clip early side steppers or the second kick alone will. Just remember it doesn't track and this won't be consistent.
• Frame Traps and Guard Break Pressure
  • 66p+k variations - This pack comes with 66(p+k) as well as ppp(p), pp6(p), 9p(p), 66p(p), and 4(p+k). Basically, these guard breaks give +3 which means 6p will beat out anything your opponent has and with the option of 6pk, you can clip those who love to step right after being guard broken. Another option is 3k as a safe poke that will beat and 11 frame moves. 1p is another option for clipping step and beating highs.
    
    Once you teach your opponent to respect this guard break, you can start using your throws, which we'll get into.
  • 4p6p - +3 just like the 66p+k variations, but it's an interruptable string as well as pretty seeable. Same post gb play applies here.
  • 236k - High kick, 20 frames, +1. Not much more to tell. It's a nice coming in move. Not perfect but still good.
  • 6p+k p - wind dash punch guard break. It's +7 which is pretty significant though you'd think that it'd be a bit more considering the fact tha you have to drive through the wind dash just to get it.
    
    Even still it's very useful, so see how your opponent reacts by hitting them with a safe poke after. If you land a hit, keep throwing safe pokes until you teach them to not press buttons after it, then you can follow up with a more powerful throw.
  • 8pk - guard break for safety. Interruptable and -5, I never use this... but when I do, I usually always land a hit instead of the guard break lol!
  • 214k - +2 on block, knockdown on hit. Nothing special about this move on hit which is pretty disappointing. Your only purpose behind this move is to Frame Trap your opponent.
  • 2p - 0 on hit. Not exactly a frame trap but I believe it should be mentioned. The point of this move is to edge your opponent on and cause them to throw out an attack, which you'll proceed to interrupt with a move. It's neutral so against slower characters you'll have a field day with this.
  • 1(P+K) (Power Blow GB) - +16 so 14 frame moves and faster are guaranteed, but because of range issues, unless your opponents back is to the wall, only 6p and 3k are guaranteed. If you want to play with the stun in the open those are your options. 3k will give a wall splat as well so you can play with wall combos as well. 6p is just always available to start the stun game though.
    
    This is Hayate's only way to open up his opponent on guard without throwing.
• Launchers
  • 33k - 15i launcher. Hayate's fastest launcher. Height is pretty good and it can be followed up with most all of his bnb combos. Guaranteed after a 3PP sit down stun.
  • 8p - Iconic launcher of Hayate that's been with him since DOA2. High crushing 16i mid punch launcher that gives a pretty good height and good refloat mid juggle. Free forced tech on mid weights on NH (pp2kk).
  • 6k - 16i high kick launcher - At first I didn't really like this launcher but it's kind of grown on me. The perks of this are purely mixup and good launch height. Be careful following up though because it can result in you going under your opponent, especially against light weights.
  • 4k6k - 16i 2 in 1 high launcher. It looks cool though the height isn't astounding. It has place in post Raijin/Nakiryu launch juggles but it's still a 2 in 1 launcher so it's definitely useful.
  • 9k - 17i mid kick launcher. Unlike Hitomi and JL, this kick does not kill wake up kicks consistently... or period, it only crushes them on certain frames. The launch height is ok at best but I generally only like it for the aethestics. Regardless, it's a nice launcher.
  • h3(p) and h3p(p) - 18i mid punch launcher with a follow up that can launch higher or refloat a bit higher. It doesn't give an exceptional height. Out of h3p and h3pp, h3pp gives the best height, so I'd only fish for a counter hit launch with this. 214pp and 214pp(p) function the same except 214pp(p) does not refloat, it knocks down aerial opponents.
  • 214pp - Since were on the subject of this, 214pp can be a guaranteed launch on CH for crouching opponents. 214p sitdown stuns opponents and that in turn makes way for the punch follow up. This is only really good after a ceiling splat on heavy weights but it works with all weights.
    
    ----->DO NOT ATTEMPT 214PP AT THE WALL BECAUSE IT WILL MISS<------
  • 214ppp - Like the rest of the hits in this string, this move launches on counter hit. What makes this move special is the launch height it gets from counter hit. If you manage to pressure your opponent into letting you land this, go big and follow up with a bnb 8p, pp6pk. I hate to see people get this launch and let it go to waste. Once you get used to it, then you can work on more powerful setups.
  • 6P+K P+K - Arguably Hayate's BEST mid punch launcher next to 8p. This move comes in at 34 frames, but it covers quite an amount of distance. Usually it needs to be setup by pressuring someone to hold late, getting off a critical burst, or after a ceiling splat.
    
    This is also one of Hayate's best options for launching at the wall because you get the high damage output and you get the best launch without a wall splat. Post CB always use this, unless situation permits something else.
    
    After a ceiling splat, this is usually his go to option but there are others. Most of the juggles with it are the highest damage possible and the most consistent. It's definitely useful.
    
    I don't usually ever use this raw but it could have its uses, so experiment with it.
• Threshold Break Launchers
  • "What is a Threshold Break Launcher" - In the end they're just moves that only launch on 3 ocassions:
    1. Being used twice in a row in the stun game (CH 3p, 3p),
    2. Being used at the end of the threshold, or
    3. Hitting a backturned opponents,
    
    Generally speaking, they will always work in situation 2 but one thing to remember is most of the time the launch height won't always be great but it's a way to stay off the radar as predictable but be ready to sacrifice damage.
    
    Lets get to it then!
  • ppp - Situation 2 only. ppp is a simple launcher that will give you a pp6pk. This one was inspired by Ein, who used to launch with situation 1 and 2 into the same kind of juggle.
  • Wind Dash K - Situation 2 and 3. The thing to note about situation 2 is that it will only occur on the first hit of the 2 in 1, meaning if the kick to go over the threshold isn't that first kick, the person is simply going down.
    
    The launch height is better on backturned opponents because it works as it did in the DOA5.02 patch. On a regular launch pp6pk or ppkk(Lightweights only) would be the best follow ups but on a backturned launch, ppp, 33kk is possible.
  • 214p - Situation 2. Not a great launcher period but regardless it's there if you want a mixup to fake out opponents. pp6pk is a nice option after it.
  • 3P - Situation 1 and 2. Gives a free forced tech on light weights, and is guaranteed after 3PP. Not much else to say.
• Crushes
  • High Crush Frames - 3p, 8p, 4p, 6p+k, 4p+k, 7k and BT 7k (in various points of recovery.
  • Instant High Crush - 2p, 1p, 1k, 2h+k, BT 2p, BT 2k
  • Low Crush Frames 3h+k, 214k, 214p, 236k, h+kk, 7k, BT 7k
  • All Crush Frames - 9kk, 33k, 214p.
  • True Mids - 3h+k, 33kk, 9kkk, 7k, 3pp
• Deep Stuns
  • 66p, and CH 6p - +25/+17
  • 9p - +36/+26
  • 4p - +33/++23
  • CH 3k - +27/+19
  • CH 3p - +37/+27
  • CH BT p - +31/+23
  • CH BT 4p - +28/+20
  • CH BT 2p - +28/+20
  • In Stun 1p - +25/+18
  • In Stun ppp - +36/+26
  • In Stun pp6p - +25/+17
• Unholdable Stuns
  • 3PP - +17 on highest SE which guarantees all 15i (or below) mid and low moves.
  • BT 4p - +13 on highest SE which guarantees...(wait...)
  • 214p - +14 on highest SE which guarantees the follow up (214pp) or 6p
  • p+k - +20 on highest SE which guarantees all 18i moves (or below). At tip range only 236p is guaranteed.
• Throws
  • T - 5i (38 dmg) - Simple push, can wall splat.
  • 6T - 7i (42 dmg) - Simple 8 frame punish throw. Not the best damage but an easy throw nonetheless
  • 66T - 7i (45 dmg) - Another simple 8 frame punish throw. Not the best damage still but a little bit more than 6T and it will switch sides for you and your opponent so you can get away from a dangerzone if you wish.
  • 236T - 7i (0 dmg) - Hayate's best punishment throw, period. This throw gives Hayate +14 (+9 in addition to the 5 frames it takes for the opponent to turn around and block) which allows Hayate to follow up with a 7k for 72 points of damage. The downside is from here, the 7k does not scale so it will not jump up to 86 on counter hit or 105 on Hi counter like the Raijin so only punish unsafe moves with this.
  • 4T - 10i (45 dmg) - Simple throw that leaves you next your opponent. I don't like this grab at all personally and though it does leave you next to your opponent there's not much you can do after. You can korean back dash away from the wake up kick or try to block it/beat it out.
  • 33T - 10i (52 dmg) - Better 10 frame throw than 4T. Gives more damage and spaces you out a bit better that 4T. I'd prefer to have the doa4.1 33T back but because the animation was a lot flashier than this one and also more damaging.
  • Nakiryu - 12i (65 dmg) - Returning grab from DOA3. Weaker than Hayate's strongest throw (the Raijin) but it has its perks. For one, you get wall damage from it and if you're in a place with a ceiling you can cancel it into a combo or a bit more damage except on heavyweights. On Heavyweights, when it comes to hi counter, doing the grab is always the better option.
  • Raijin - 12i (71 dmg) - This is Hayate's most damaging grab. The inputs to get this grab are ridiculous still but a bit easier to pull off now. I wouldn't use this grab in battle unless you're fully able to consistently land these. 105 damage isn't a laughing matter on hi counter.
    
    64 damage of foreplay stun game with an added to 105 damage (114 on ceiling Nakiryu) could ease a lot of the work you'd have to do otherwise.
  • 2T - 5i (48 dmg) - Low throw. Interesting animation and good damage. Same deal as Raijin on punish holds during stun game. Condition your opponent to low hold out of stun a lot and you'll get a free 72 dmg for punishing their low hold which is a full juggle basically. All your work is done in one move.
  • 1T - 7i (50 dmg) - Gives a few more points of damage for two more frames to impact. It works just like neutral T, but he jumps over his opponent and pushes them the other way.
  • Wall 4T and Wall 66T (55 dmg) - Nothing special, Hayate just jumps off the wall and slams the opponent to the ground or to his knee. Pretty good damage.
  • Back T (53 dmg) - You'll land this a lot on characters with a backturned game. Good damage, interesting animation.
  • Back 2T (58 dmg) - Good damage. Same situation as Back T.
  • 6p+k T - 45i (58 dmg) - Really good distance grab and it does a respectable amount of damage. Land this on Hi counter and your opponents will wisen up next time. If you land it on a back turned opponent, then you'll get less damage and a different animation.
• Holds
  • Expert Mid Kick Hold 46H - Launches the opponent in the air giving an air juggle opportunity to blow the regular mid kick hold damage out of the water. There's also the ceiling splat ability that should be acknowledge. It's a very good hold that you should get used to.

 

[TakedaZX]

Mentality Behind Hayate​

​

To be honest, Hayate is a weak character in a game where mid tier is as low as you can get. He's not bad, he's just not top tier.

First we have to realize his weaknesses:

1. He lacks the long strings and tracking moves to really keep his opponent on lock constantly.
2. He lacks the safety to really just throw out full strings and continue his offense.
3. He lacks the ability to open up his opponent with a strike or offensive holds.
4. He lacks flexibility in mix-ups in general to really put his opponent in a bad situation. (In other words, he's easy to react to and predictable in general)

So then the question is, "What can Hayate even do?".

Mentality 2.0 (W.I.P.)

• The Foreplay
  • Test the Waters
    • Hayate's best quality is making his opponents pay DEARLY for their mistakes. So test the waters. See what they do in certain situations... Do they try to punish an unsafe move with the wrong grab? Do they try to attack, sidestep, or back away after a guard break? What hold do they use after certain stuns or in certain setups? What do they do after you block one of their safe pokes, do they try to jab you out or respect the -5.
      
      Picking up on these things will help Hayate get his damage output that he wants simply by making educated guesses based. Remember nothing is set in stone, but see how you can push your opponent to do what you want them to do.
  • Guard Break Pressure
    • One way of really taking the matters into your own hands is to emphasize on guard break pressure. Using Hayate +1, +3, and +7 guard breaks can allow you to put them in a disadvantageous situation where you can test the waters. Depending on the character you face, you can make up a game plan depending on their options at their disposal compared to yours. See how they react and find answers to each of their forms of retaliation.
      
      I.e. - At +3 against Kasumi if they plan to jab you out, 6p will take care of their jab and anything else. If they plan to sidestep you, the finishing 6pk or going with 4p will beat both their jab and their sidestep while giving you a knockdown (for 6pk, or a deep stun with a BT mixup (for 4p).
      
      If they decide to block, 236T, 7k will get you the easy Raijin damage but if they like to hold or parry instead (because trust me, they'll try it), you can throw out a Nakiryu, Raijin, or Poor Man's Raijin for the high counter damage.
      
      The moral here is, get options and stick with one option until they show you that they'll adapt.
  • Whiff Punishment
    • Hayate has great mid-ranged moves though they're reduced to being used as nothing more than whiff punishment. 3h+k, 214p, 66p, 66p+k, 236p, 236k, and 6p+k mix-ups) can be used to punish whiffs after spacing out the opponent. 4p+k on the other hand will handle the spacing and it also can be cancelled. Great move.
• The Main Course
  • Stun on Stun Action
    • When it comes to being aggressive, Hayate basically still has to play DOA4 with less of his tools. To get the best damage he has to play the stun game, which could lead up from 1/3 life combo to a 1/2 life combo. But that's when you're driving to finish the threshold.
      
      Hayate can do well relying on single stun to launch combos as well. Just try to be flexible on what stuns you do to create a mix-up and push your opponent to hold. So that you can time your strikes to hit in the recovery frames so that your only guess is will they hold or not.
  • Slip and Fall on that Grab
    • When it comes to being more so defensive, it's all about punishment. Punish with 5T and 236T. 5T will be your fastest grab but 236T is the most damaging 7 frame throw in the game, coming in at 72 damage which is Raijin damage at all times.
• The Climax
  • The Launch
    • There's three types of launchers we've gone over: True Launchers, 2 in 1 Launchers, and Threshold Break Launchers. The best thing to do is make use of ALL of them. You have a 3 way mixup with true launchers which you can use at the end of the threshold, but 2 in 1 launchers are a bit different.
      
      They call for you to replace the stun with the first hit of the 2 in 1. 4k6k is a prime example. So a setup with it would be 66P, 3K, 4K6K, (juggle).
      
      4P6P+K P+K/K is another one but it's more of a mix-up situation. 4P is a deep stun, deep enough so that both of the moves can be used as a mix-up, but the kick only launches when the first kick of the two breaks the threshold. Using 4P6P+K mix-ups is a good way to get a nice juggle easy.
      
      Threshold Break Launchers aren't really necessary but in some cases they become useful since they usually come from strings or are faster than other moves. PPP is a good example. When the last punch breaks the threshold, it launches high enough to give a free PP6PK.
      
      4P itself can be used as a launcher if it breaks the threshold and is immediately followed by a 6P+KK chain for the relaunch, giving a free ppkk or pp6pk.
      Using these tactics will help you have more freedom on your launching to keep the opponenet guessing.
  • More Grabs
    • Instead of launching, a well placed Raijin/Nakiryu or Low Getsuerin (2T) will punish holders giving you hi counter damage. Raijin and Nakiryu will exceed any possible juggle by Hayate but 2T will give just as much damage as a regular 8p, pp6pk or a 4p6p+kk, BT 7k.
• The Aftermath
  • Waking up the day after
    • On wake up, just choose wisely. 46H for mid kick wake ups. Low Hold or low crush for low sweep wake ups, and build your own shenanigans to handle special wake ups and other mishaps. Whiff punish them if you'd like to risk that.
  • Choose wisely
    • Hayate is character that's bent to punishing his opponents mistakes.
      Remember that. Sometimes you'll have to be very very defensive and sometimes you'll have to be very aggressive and respect less situations despite the fact that his moves put him in a terrible situation 90% of the time, but on the bright side he's got a really good damage output and it will pay off when the correct choices are made.
      
      So go forth and show what Hayate's made of.

 

[TakedaZX]

Combo Section​

​

Intro to Combo Tech​

Natural Hit Launch Combos - L | M | H​

Stun Launch Combos - L | M | H​

Counter Hit Launch Combos - L | M | H​

Critical Burst Setups​

Guaranteed Setups - L | M | H​

Tsuji-Kage (Raijin), Subaru (46H), and Jumping Mid Kick Hold Juggles - L | M | H​

Ceiling Combos - L | M | H​

Wall Splat Combos - L | M | H​

​

​

Intro to Combo Tech​

Before getting into comboing with Hayate there's a few concepts you have to be acquainted with:

• Instant Crouch -
  • When it comes to comboing with Hayate, he can get a lot of damage for simple commands and easily placed bread and butters, but to really push that damage output to the limit (especially at the wall), you must learn how to do this move.
    
    Good practice is to work on the input and then try to pull off this combo on normal hit in the lab:
    
    The first punch should stun then the second punch should launch, then the net 623PP should juggle and the 7k should end it. If the second 623pp doesn't hit, then you're doing it wrong. If the 7k doesn't end the combo you're also doing it wrong.
    
    If you're ambitious, switch out for and if you can land that, you're doing it perfectly.

Tags​

[CH] - Counter Hit​

[HCH] - Hi Counter Hit​

[CB] - Critical Burst​

[BT] - Back To Opponent​

[On-BT] - To Opponent's Back​

[!C!] - Ceiling Splat​

​

Natural Hit Launch Combos​

• Lightweights
  • 
    • 
    • (most damage)
    • (best knockback)
  • 
    • (best damage)
    • BT (forced tech)
  • 
    • (best knockback)
    • 
    • 
    • (most damage and best wall juggle)
  • 
    • 
    • (most damage and spikes)
    • 

Stun To Launch Combos​

• or [CH] (+17 and above)
  • Lightweights
    • 
      • (most damage)
      • :[[P]]:
      • (best knockback)
      • (spikes opponent)
      • (best wall juggle)
  • Midweights
  • Heavyweights

• [CH] (+18 and above)
  • Lightweights
    • [CH]
      • [CH] (spikes)
      • [CH] :[[P]]: (best knockback)
      • [CH] (most damage and best wall juggle)
    • [CH]
      • [CH] (most damage and best wall juggle)
      • [CH] (guaranteed forced tech)
    • [CH]
      • [CH] (best wall juggle)
      • [CH] (most damage) (spikes)
• [HCH] (8p or 33k)
  • Lightweights
    • 
      • (best knockback)
      • (best wall juggle spikes)
      • (Guard Cancel BT) BT
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • (most damage and best all juggle) (spikes)
      • (best knockback)
      • (spikes)
• [CH] (+19 and above)
  • Lightweights
    • [CH]
      • [CH] (best wall combo)
      • [CH] (most damage) (spikes)
• Deep Stun (+23 and above on highest SE)
  • [Stun Here]
    • 
    • 
• String Launchers
  • (Combo String)
    • 
    • (spikes opponent)
    • (most damage)
    • (best knockback)
    • (+2 on whiff, +16 on hit)
  • 
    • (strict timing)
    • or [BT] (strict timing)
    • (open stance only)
    • (best wall juggle + consistent)
  • 
    • 
    • (spikes)
    • :[[P]]: (strict timing, best open space damage)
    • (best wall juggle)
    • (+5 on whiff, +16 on hit)

Counter Hit Launch Combos​

• Lightweights
  • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH] [BT]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH]
    • [CH] [BT]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH] [BT]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH] [BT]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH](First hit lands)
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH] or (Last hit only)
    • [CH] [BT]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
  • [CH] or (Last hit only)
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH]
    • [CH] (Slight delay) :
    • [CH] (Strict Timing)
    • [CH] (Slight delay) [BT]
    • [The Ultimate Takeda Special V1 - Requires An Invisible Non-Splat Wall]
      [CH] (Slight delay)
• Midweights
• Heavyweights

Critical Burst Combos​

In this section I'll simply put together a few setups that can't be beaten by slow escape and post launch juggles for each launcher. You can build your own combos but just know that you need a deep stun to force the opponent to have to hold the CB. These deeps stuns were mentioned the Tools post above, refer to that.

• Example Critical Burst Setups
  • [CB]
  • [CB]
  • [BT] [CB]
  • [CB]
  • [CB]
  • [CH] : [CB]
  • [CH] [CB]
  • [HCH] [CB]
  • [HCH] [CB]
• Post Critical Burst Launch Combos (HCH Launch)
  • Lightweights
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • (Best Wall Juggle)
      • [BT] (Best Damage)
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • (Best wall juggle)
      • :[H]: [BT] (Best Damage)
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • (Delay)
      • (Delay) (Hard but best wall juggle)
      • (Delay) [BT]
      • [The Ultimate Takeda Special V1 - Requires An Invisible Non-Splat Wall]
        (Miniscule delay)
    • 
      • 
      • 
    • [The Takeda Launcher]
      • 
      • 
      • 
      • 
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • (Very slight delay)
      • (Very slight delay)
      • [BT]
      • [The Ultimate Takeda Special V1 - Requires An Invisible Non-Splat Wall]
        
    • 
      • or [BT]
      • 
      • 
      • 
    • 
      • 
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • 
      • 
      • [BT]
      • [The Ultimate Takeda Special V1 - Requires An Invisible Non-Splat Wall]
        
  • Midweights
    • 
    • 
    • 
    • 
    • [The Takeda Launcher]
    • 
    • 
    • 
    • 
  • Heavyweights
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • (Most Damage)
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • (Most Damage and Wall Friendly)
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • 
      • 
      • (best wall friendly)
      • (best wall friendly, same damage as above)
      • [BT] (most damage)
    • 
      • 
      • 
    • [The Takeda Launcher]
      • [BT] (most damage)
      • [BT] (guaranteed forced tech)
    • 
      • 
      • 
      • 
      • 
      • (most damage, easier than below)
      • (most damage)
    • 
      • or [BT]
      • 
      • 
      • 
    • 
      • [BT] (most damage)
      • [BT] (guaranteed forced tech)
    • 
      • 
      • or [BT]
      • (most damage)
      • [Inconsistent in the open but works at wall]
      • [Inconsistent in the open but works at wall] :[[P]]:
      • [Inconsistent in the open but works at wall]
      • [Inconsistent in the open but works at wall] (best wall friendly)

Wall Combos

Tsuji-Kage (), Subaru () and Jumping Mid Kick Hold Juggles​

• Tsuji-Kage
  • Lightweights and Midweights
    • 
    • 
    • (Most consistent and good damage)
    • (Strict timing and only two more points of damage, waste of time)
  • Heavyweights
    • 
    • (most damage)
    • (at the wall)
• Subaru
  • Lightweights and Midweights
    • (Best one at the wall)
    • [BT] (Consistent BNB out in the open for good damage.
    • (Lightweights only) (Same damage as previous)
    • (Best damage out in the open, but harder execution)
    • [The Ultimate Takeda Special V1 - SPECIAL OCCASION] - THIS WILL ONLY WORK IF YOU HAVE YOUR BACK TO AN INVISIBLE WALL WHEN YOU SUCCESSFULLY PULL OFF THE HOLD (i.e. the border in the water on Zack Island, or the area at the bottom of Scramble where you can't wall splat your opponent but it is a border). This will take your highest possible damage from 74 to 84.
      
      (Very timing strict, If you hesitate for a second, you will lose the juggle)
  • Heavyweights
    • 
    • [BT]
    • (at the wall)
• Jumping Mid Kick Hold
  • Lightweights and Midweights
    • (In the open/nearing the wall)
    • (At the wall)
  • Heavyweights
    • [BT] (In the open/nearing the wall)
    • (At the wall)

Guaranteed Setups​

A guaranteed setup cannot be slow escaped or held out of.

Red = Not Guaranteed, Orange = Can be Guaranteed, Green = Guaranteed, Blue = Only Guaranteed If...

• 9PP
• CH or HCH BT 4K, 6P
• CH or HCH 214PP on a crouching opponent
• CH or HCH 214P, 6p/3k on a crouching opponent
• CH 3PP, 33K or In Stun 3PP, 33K
• 3H+KKP (only if the 3H+K hits or if the 3H+KK lands on CH)
• HCH 4K6K or In Stun 4K6K
• HCH 1PP In Stun 1PP
• P+K or CH P+K into any move under 18 frames
  • P+K, 66KKK (All weights)
  • P+K, 8P, (Guard Cancel out of BT) 4P6P+K~K, [BT] 7K (Lighweights, Max Damage)
  • P+K, 8P, PPP, 33KK (Lightweights and Midweights Wall Friendly)
  • P+K, 8P, (Guard Cancel out of BT), 66KKK (VERY HARD, best heavy weight juggle)
  • P+K, 8P, PPP, 7K (Best heavyweight wall friendly)
• [On-BT] Stuns 8P+KP or 3K or 7p mix-ups (they link into each other, with 3PP as a side option)
  • Explanation - In a nutshell, these stuns are deep BT stuns that guaranteed many things, and depending on which one you land you can work out specific setups and launches. Also take note that all guaranteed launchers will be at their highest possible height no matter how many stuns you do before hand.
    
    3K's practicality rest in unsafe moves that leave the opponent in BT at -11 or higher. If you're on point, you can get a guaranteed setup into 8k (highest damage launcher possible)
    
    7P works better for whiff punishing predicted launchers that leave the opponent in BT (Hayate's 8p or Ryu's 3p+k).
    
    8p+kp can do the same as 3p but also sidesteps, but the stun is 3 frames weaker. Not a big difference but something to note.
    
    Here's deeper info:
  • [On-BT] 3K
    • Links into 8p+kp (BT stun), 7p (BT stun), and 3pp (which guarantees a CB at close range but not tip range.
    • Guarantees 33k, 8p, 6k, 4k6k, 9k, 8k launchers
  • [On-BT] 8P+KP
    • Links into 3k (BT stun), 7p (BT stun), 3pp (Guarantees a 33k or 8p launcher)
    • Guarantees 33k, 8p, 6k, 4k6k, 9k, 8k launchers
  • [On-BT] 7P
    • Links into 3k (BT Stun) and 3pp (Guarantees a 33k or 8p launcher)
    • Guarantees 33k launcher
  • Possibilities [On-BT] (few examples of how to link these together)
    • 3k (close hit), 3pp, 7p [CB]
    • 3k, 7p, 3k, 8k
    • 8p+kp, 3k, 8p+k (if you do 2p+kp, you must 2p+k again, you cannot alternate to 8p+k or you will let them turn around)
    • 7p, 3k, 7p, 33k
    • 8p+kp, 3pp, 8p

​

​

Ceiling Combos​

• Tsuji-Kage
  • Light Weights
    • [Open Space - 101 Damage] [!C!] [BT]
    • [Wall Friendly EASY - 91 Damage] [!C!]
    • [Wall Friendly - 101 damage] [!C!] :[[p+k]]:
    • [Wall Friendly - VERY HARD - 105 damage] [!C!] :[[p+k]]:
    • [Wall Friendly VERY HARD - 96 damage] [!C!]
  • Mid Weights
    • [Open Space - 93 Damage] [!C!]
    • [Wall Friendly: EASY - 91 Damage] [!C!]
  • Heavy Weights
    • [Open Space - 87 damage] [!C!]
    • [Wall Friendly - 82 damage] [!C!]
    • [Open Space Forced Tech - +22 on forced tech] [!C!] ()
  • Power Blow
    • [Guaranteed 121+ Damage]

• Subaru
  • Light Weights and Mid Weights
    • [Open Space - 105 damage] [!C!] [BT]
    • [Wall Friendly - 100 damage] [!C!]
    • [The Takeda Special V1 - 101 damage] [!C!] (Near wall ender)
    • [The Takeda Special V2 - 102 damage] [!C!] (Out in the open ender)
  • Heavy Weights
    • [Open Space - 92 damage] [!C!]
    • [At the wall - 91 damage] [!C!]
  • Power Blow
    • [Guaranteed 125+ damage]

Wall Combos​

(By Height)

• NH Splats
  • Low Splat
    • 6P+K~K (Inconsistent)
    • 8PK (Inconsistent)
    • 66KKK
  • Medium Low Splat
    • PP6PK
    • 6PK
    • 7P
    • PKK
    • 66PK
    • KK
    • 214K
    • 1P+K
    • H+K
    • H+KK
  • Medium High Splat
    • PPPP
    • PP2KP
    • PP6PP
    • 6PP
    • 4PP
    • 4P6P
    • 9PP
    • 1PP
    • 66PP
    • 236P
    • 214P
    • 6K
    • 8K
    • 9KKK
    • 33KK
    • 66K
    • 236K
    • P+K
    • SS P
    • 3H+KKP
    • 4P+K
    • 66P+K
    • 6P+K~P
  • High Splat
    • 4KK (Special Case : 8P isn't availiable so PP2K(delay)K is the only option for a possible forced tech)
    • 66P
    • 8P+KP
• CH/HCH splats
  • Low Splats
  • Medium Low Splats
  • Medium High Splats
    • 3PP
    • K
    • BT 4K
    • 3K (inconsistent)
  • High Splats
    • 3PP
    • 3K (inconsistent)

Combos

• Low Splats
  • 7K
  • 6PK (Bnb)
  • PP6PK (Sometimes)
  • PP2KK (Pseudo Forced Tech situation if all but the last sweep hits)
  • [BT] 7K (If needed, sometimes glitchy knockdown)
• Medium Low Splats
  • 8P, [BT] 7K (Sometimes)
  • PP6PK (Bnb)
  • PP2KK (Untechable for +16/+17)
• Medium High Splats
  • 4P6P+K~K
  • PP6PK
  • PP2KK (Untechable for +16/+17)
  • 8P, PP6PK (Bnb)
  • 8P, PP2KK (Untechable for +16/+17)
  • Instant h3PP, 7K (Sometimes, but hard)
  • Instant h3PP, 33KK (Sometimes, but VERY HARD)
• High Splats
  • 4P6P+K~K
  • PP6PK
  • PP2KK (Must delay last kick correctly for untechable for +16/+17)
  • 8P, PP6PK (Bnb)
  • 8P, PP2KK (Untechable for +16/+17)
  • Instant h3PP, 7K (Sometimes, but hard)
  • Instant h3PP, 33KK (Sometimes, but VERY HARD)

 

[TakedaZX]

Update - March 12th, 2013 (3:09 pm)

Sorry guys, it seems that I've broken the combo section... somehow... I'm going to work on it but I'm really not sure why it screwed up... just pay attention to the random page breaks and bullet points and you'll see where it connects and doesn't.

Update March 12th, 2013 (5:54 pm)
Fixed it, Lightweights are almost done. Developing some new unique stuff. Hope you guys enjoy this.

 

[Gultigargar]

Not sure where to put this, or even if it's already known, but it seems that if the opponent doesn't tech roll immediately after being hit by Hayate's wind dash kick, then you have a guaranteed 8P+K ground stomp.

Also, buffering the 8P+K won't make you jump if they tech roll, it'll just make you throw out a jab. (Which, granted, still leaves you at -9, but it's better than missing a ground stomp.)

Just thought I'd share it.

 

[TakedaZX]

Not sure where to put this, or even if it's already known, but it seems that if the opponent doesn't tech roll immediately after being hit by Hayate's wind dash kick, then you have a guaranteed 8P+K ground stomp.

Also, buffering the 8P+K won't make you jump if they tech roll, it'll just make you throw out a jab. (Which, granted, still leaves you at -9, but it's better than missing a ground stomp.)

Just thought I'd share it.

I will add that sometime soon, thank you for this

[Update 04/01/13] Well I cracked into heavyweight combos today. I'll have those finished by the end of this week.

More importantly, I went back and also worked out some more stuff on the stun launch combos. There are now combos updated for 66pk, 4k6k, and 4p6p+kp+k. I'll be updating more soon.

 

[Koompbala]

So you say be creative try to come up with you own. You made it hard to do so with all those combos up there. But I think I got one thats not listed its has to do with the ceiling near a wall. Which is easy to accomplish since the 2 stages are small.



66P+K - 8P - PP6KP 106/116/126 Lightweights
66P+K - 623PP - 7K - 105/115/125 Mid-Gen Fu
66P+K - PP6KP 98/108/116 The two Fat Ones

I tried doing to see if that was any better on the S. Heavies it only did 94 but then I did that did 96 never knew delaying it added more dmg makes sense now but just found it out experimenting. It probably did more dmg that way in 4 also. 623PP hits the S.Heavies funny enough but nothing else hits not even 2P so PP6KP is still the best option

 

[TakedaZX]

So you say be creative try to come up with you own. You made it hard to do so with all those combos up there. But I think I got one thats not listed its has to do with the ceiling near a wall. Which is easy to accomplish since the 2 stages are small.



66P+K - 8P - PP6KP 106/116/126 Lightweights
66P+K - 623PP - 7K - 105/115/125 Mid-Gen Fu
66P+K - PP6KP 98/108/116 The two Fat Ones

I tried doing to see if that was any better on the S. Heavies it only did 94 but then I did that did 96 never knew delaying it added more dmg makes sense now but just found it out experimenting. It probably did more dmg that way in 4 also. 623PP hits the S.Heavies funny enough but nothing else hits not even 2P so PP6KP is still the best option

The difference is that BT 7k and h8pk are different moves all together. It's dumb but I still like it lol.

and NICE this is really good man.

 

[Koompbala]

I figured thats what it was. Now I know my assumption is right. He still got some nice combos I like him.

 

[TakedaZX]

I figured thats what it was. Now I know my assumption is right. He still got some nice combos I like him.

Yea, he still needs some more fundamentally good stuff but his juggles are solid. Great damage.

 

[deathofaninja]

I love it when a combo pool also turns out to be a great read.

 

[Koompbala]

I love it when a combo pool also turns out to be a great read.

I agree that's why I even posted a combo in the first place. Cause this isnt a mess like all the other combo threads. I have neglected to post combos in other threads because of how sloppy the thread is. Actually not so much the thread but really how lacking the first post is in other threads.

When I see "juggle thread" I think the first post is gonna have a bunch of combos from the posters. Instead the thread is littered with juggles posted in different formats looking like hot a mess. When the first post says "post combos....." and nothing else. I just think why even start a thead. Secondly doing that is just another form of saying "hey guys look at me first post" in my eyes. Thread starters that post 2 combos are no different the way I see it but I digress.

 

[TakedaZX]

I agree that's why I even posted a combo in the first place. Cause this isnt a mess like all the other combo threads. I have neglected to post combos in other threads because of how sloppy the thread is. Actually not so much the thread but really how lacking the first post is in other threads.

When I see "juggle thread" I think the first post is gonna have a bunch of combos from the posters. Instead the thread is littered with juggles posted in different formats looking like hot a mess. When the first post says "post combos....." and nothing else. I just think why even start a thead. Secondly doing that is just another form of saying "hey guys look at me first post" in my eyes. Thread starters that post 2 combos are no different the way I see it but I digress.

Yea the problem is just the thread getting out of hand, as in you leave it alone for a few weeks then there's pages and pages and pages of post you have to go through. I don't blame them, but even still it's a job.

I'm to blame for the combo thread in the Kokoro section because I dropped her...

 

[Koompbala]

Yea the problem is just the thread getting out of hand, as in you leave it alone for a few weeks then there's pages and pages and pages of post you have to go through. I don't blame them, but even still it's a job.

I'm to blame for the combo thread in the Kokoro section because I dropped her...

Meh its just my personal opinion. I've never had a problem doing painfully tedious tasks for nothing. Which is why I'm a achievement whore. OCD definitely helps things like this not be a problem. Just because its a job doesn't mean its an impossible task. Doesn't mean that it doesn't help out other others cause it does.

When the first post isn't updated it makes it a job for everyone else. A forum is another place to converse and learn. Ah of course I forgot one more thing. When a first post lacks content it becomes "work" for everyone. I work already on the game why do I wanna work at the place I go to learn too? At that point I'm pulling double the work.

One of these days making no guarantees but I'll try to make a Tina equivalent of this guide. Thats another sub forum thats a mess started good now sloppy. Just gotta get a hold of a computer for a couple days

 

[TakedaZX]

Well, with the annoucement of Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate and the complacency that lies within me, I'm going to go ahead and break the news. I won't be finishing this breakdown... but I will leave you with this.

There is never one way to play a character no matter what. It all depends on the player himself or herself to push the limits that might never be reached.

In the end, personally I find him inadequate as a character since he lacks the tools to play up close and his mid ranged tools aren't exactly phenomenal. He asks for too much commitment for moves that aren't incredible... so he might be... "good" but he could be a little bit better.

I made a final blog post about him here. Just a few ideas. Give me feed back.

See you guys again in DOA5U.

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

He really really hope he will get back some of his old moves. He used to be my second main in DOA4, but after what I saw in DOA5, I stop playing him seriously(and after the patchs they make him even worse) I don´t think Hayate was overpowered or something, in fact, I think he is the "worst" ninja. So there´s no reason to patch him.

 

[TakedaZX]

He really really hope he will get back some of his old moves. He used to be my second main in DOA4, but after what I saw in DOA5, I stop playing him seriously(and after the patchs they make him even worse) I don´t think Hayate was overpowered or something, in fact, I think he is the "worst" ninja. So there´s no reason to patch him.

He's still ok... but I say this a lot. They dropped way too many nerfs on single moves at a time and took away too much to where they basically nerfed him to shit. They should've done single nerfs on each of those moves, kept the strings, and added the new things. His additions were good additions but the nerfs far outweight them.

There's really good stuff going on with him though. I'll hit you up on DOA sometimes if you wanna run sets. I'm ass on the Xbox though since I'm not good with the controllers.

I'll probably add more to this topic actually.

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

Don´t know if this is already posted, but if you hit a wall with you can follow with and then finish with or

Edit: Yeah, it was posted xD