TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
WARNING: THIS BREAKDOWN IS OUTDATED AND DOES NOT APPLY TO DOA5U
Update : April 11th, 2013
Dropping a link to my DOA5 blog about ideas to help Hayate in this game. Some changes are crucial and others would just be nice. Check it out. [Here]
Here's the list of lost moves:
and in addition to that, some of his tools took property nerfs for being too "overpowered":
As you can see... the list is long, very long, but even still this doesn't mean Hayate is [bad] now, he's just missing a lot of his great tools that would have transitioned well into this game.
His redeeming qualities are his high damage output and relatively deep stuns as well as having a slightly above average attack speed, coming in at 10/12/14 (high/mid/low). Also he holds one of the most powerful 7 frame throws in the game (236T 7k)
His wall game is also pretty deadly. Whether the wall is solid or just an invisible border, he can do some hurtful things, and if he just so HAPPENS to land a ceiling splat, he's going to do some major damage, though his guaranteed combos aren't exactly amazing unless you're going for the guaranteed power blow.
In the end you'll be outsmarting people with reaction timing and wit rather than with tools like the JL's Dragon Gunner, Leifang's Parry Offensive Hold or Mid Kick Hold, Helena's 2H+K and W.G. Blender, or +23 guard breaks. It's hard work against better players... but if you're willing to take the step, you'll get there.
Update : April 11th, 2013
Dropping a link to my DOA5 blog about ideas to help Hayate in this game. Some changes are crucial and others would just be nice. Check it out. [Here]
Hayate Breakdown
By Tommy "TakedaZX" Patterson
Special Thanks:
Team-Ninja Studio
Perfect Legend and Silent Legend, Inspirations for playing Hayate
Tenryuga, for working with me on Hayate tech
Itagaki, for giving Hayate another chance to shine high even if only one more time before, RIP DOA4 Hayate...
...and more importantly my supporters...
Thank you.
Transitioning From DOA4 to DOA5
By Tommy "TakedaZX" Patterson
Special Thanks:
Team-Ninja Studio
Perfect Legend and Silent Legend, Inspirations for playing Hayate
Tenryuga, for working with me on Hayate tech
Itagaki, for giving Hayate another chance to shine high even if only one more time before, RIP DOA4 Hayate...
...and more importantly my supporters...
Thank you.
Transitioning From DOA4 to DOA5
Well first I want to start of by welcoming back our old DOA4 veterans and also welcoming the new players of DOA5. It's been a long time coming, but DOA5 finally arrived with a altered core and a bunch of changes in intentions to improve the game.
Taking a step back into DOA4, we remember that the ninja's were very powerful characters in the series and like in all fighters, they gained the attention of most of the players of the games. Hayate, while not as powerful as Ryu Hayabusa, still stood generally high on the tier list and was a force to be reckoned with.
In short, Hayate was known as a mid-ranged fighter. His moveset consisted of great moves for coming in strong then using that momentum to continuously knock them down over and over. Under pressure he was also given a few tools to push his opponent off of him so that he could get back into his comfort zone.
With all great things, there's always a downside. Hayate was straight forward... predictable... and most of all mid heavy. This by no means meant he couldn't give a good fight. Considering the fact that he was so predictable, it opened up a lot of opportunities for punishing whiffed holds as well as pulling shenanigans with his telegraphed strings.
Things have far changed since then. It's probably safe to say that Hayate took a considerably large fall with changes to system of DOA....
1. The addition of the sidestep system to the game (which caused Hayate to lose the strength in his mid-ranged moves),
2. The loss of the DOA4 style guaranteed forced tech system so that he could continue pressure
3. The emphasis on the slow escape system and unholdable stuns (double edged sword)
4. The fact that many strings were sent to the can and certain moves were moved and changed.
...it seems that Hayate has been left in a some what... "incomplete" state.
The more unfortunate side is that he lost a large amount of his [good] moves for reasons beyond my understanding and many others who played him in the previous DOA's...Taking a step back into DOA4, we remember that the ninja's were very powerful characters in the series and like in all fighters, they gained the attention of most of the players of the games. Hayate, while not as powerful as Ryu Hayabusa, still stood generally high on the tier list and was a force to be reckoned with.
In short, Hayate was known as a mid-ranged fighter. His moveset consisted of great moves for coming in strong then using that momentum to continuously knock them down over and over. Under pressure he was also given a few tools to push his opponent off of him so that he could get back into his comfort zone.
With all great things, there's always a downside. Hayate was straight forward... predictable... and most of all mid heavy. This by no means meant he couldn't give a good fight. Considering the fact that he was so predictable, it opened up a lot of opportunities for punishing whiffed holds as well as pulling shenanigans with his telegraphed strings.
Things have far changed since then. It's probably safe to say that Hayate took a considerably large fall with changes to system of DOA....
1. The addition of the sidestep system to the game (which caused Hayate to lose the strength in his mid-ranged moves),
2. The loss of the DOA4 style guaranteed forced tech system so that he could continue pressure
3. The emphasis on the slow escape system and unholdable stuns (double edged sword)
4. The fact that many strings were sent to the can and certain moves were moved and changed.
...it seems that Hayate has been left in a some what... "incomplete" state.
Here's the list of lost moves:
- pp2p (instant tech crouch, this makes sense to take away)
- pp2pp (follow up)
- pp2pk (follow up)
- pp4p (damage nerf would've been better than taking this away. This was a good move)
- pp4pp (unnecessary to take away)
- pp4p2k (unnecessary to take away)
- 1k (VERY CRUCIAL)
- 1kp (VERY CRUCIAL)
- 1kk (VERY CRUCIAL)
- 2kk (Crucial, in fact it seems stupid to have taken this)
- 236f (This had more value in doa4 but would still be useful here)
- 236f ~ p (was a NH stun. VERY good)
- 236f ~ k (was better and could go well in this game)
- 236f ~ 2k (Crucial)
- 236f ~ f+p (Not crucial but iconic)
- 236f ~ 66 (CRUCIAL)
- 1p+k (Acceptable because the new version is better)
- 6f+k (Not [as] crucial but... still a substantial move)
- 4f+k (Crucial... but... it felt nice to have it as a raw move. The DOA5.02 Launcher version was fine as it was but now it's a cross up of this move and that, which isn't exactly a great mix)
- 22k/88k (I really liked this move but I can see why it wasn't kept)
and in addition to that, some of his tools took property nerfs for being too "overpowered":
- 3f+kkp - No longer delayable. -15, -11, -11 (doa4.1), -15, -15, -5 (doa5.02), -15, -15, -13 (doa5.03a) on block.
- Raijin - 80 dmg (doa4.1), 71 dmg (doa5.03a), Nakiryu 65 dmg (always available though)
- ppk/f+k - no longer gives walk away stun, but launches with no external follow up except ppkk/f+kk
- 2H+K or BT 2K variants - All -15 instead of -10, -11, or -13 on block. Stun reduced from +17 on NH to +10
- 214K - No longer launches... which is fine, it just looked cool as a ground bounce launcher.
- (4)KK - Now 4KK and no longer launches though it "crushes" lows now (hardly)... but is now interruptable by just about anything.
- 3K - No longer sit down stuns opponents (though during the 1.03 patch it did sit down stun crouching opponents which was a great tool for punishing people who love to low hold out of stun. It also guaranteed a critical burst which wasn't necessary. An 8p would've sufficed.
- 8P - No longer instant tech crouches.
- Safety issues on a lot of moves. 66p went from -9 to -12, sweeps all -15, 66p+k and all variants -11
As you can see... the list is long, very long, but even still this doesn't mean Hayate is [bad] now, he's just missing a lot of his great tools that would have transitioned well into this game.
His redeeming qualities are his high damage output and relatively deep stuns as well as having a slightly above average attack speed, coming in at 10/12/14 (high/mid/low). Also he holds one of the most powerful 7 frame throws in the game (236T 7k)
His wall game is also pretty deadly. Whether the wall is solid or just an invisible border, he can do some hurtful things, and if he just so HAPPENS to land a ceiling splat, he's going to do some major damage, though his guaranteed combos aren't exactly amazing unless you're going for the guaranteed power blow.
In the end you'll be outsmarting people with reaction timing and wit rather than with tools like the JL's Dragon Gunner, Leifang's Parry Offensive Hold or Mid Kick Hold, Helena's 2H+K and W.G. Blender, or +23 guard breaks. It's hard work against better players... but if you're willing to take the step, you'll get there.
Last edited: