DOA5 Demo: Consolidated Feedback

[x Sypher x]

@Mr. Wah: When I first read that it almost sounded like you said "blockazuka", and that just sounded kinda funny because I thought you had given her move a funny terminology or something lol. Is "blockakusa" the actual name of it?

 

[Awesmic]

I understand the truth, fully, because I have seen everything from every angle that there is. Emporer Cow has not, but is still willing to make blind proclaimations. This is the part I cannot respect.

I have a confession to make.

For the record, Emperor Cow's just the fall guy. (Almost) Everything he said were in my own words, and he made those "blind proclamations" because I told him to. I felt an urge to say something earlier, but was afraid to partake in this discussion, so I didn't bother to speak up for myself.

Take pity on him. It's me you should be mad at.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

I really, really think my idea to"burn" counters during the stun would solves the countering out of stun problem.

Its really simple: You can only use one type of counter per stun situation. Which means that you can't spam low counter over and over again hoping the guy goes high and you can counter with a crush.

If you're making the opponent burn counters during the stun and you can recognize what counter he just burned. . .then Jesus, guaranteed combos after the first hit - especially if the slow escape system doesn't work the way it used to (Much to my chagrin.)

My idea is better than all of your ideas and the second you all start agreeing with ME is the second you'll be able to fuck with the lights on - just, like, ME.

 

[Jefffcore]

They've already solved that problem; you can't spam holds. The problem is the constant guessing, and ease of guessing with 3point.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

They've already solved that problem; you can't spam holds. The problem is the constant guessing, and ease of guessing with 3point.

Listen Jeff, if I get this idea into DOA5 then I'll be getting more pie in a week than you will in a life time.


Why can't you just support me and my quest for horizontal satisfaction?


Also, I think if you burn the counter everyone will be in mortal fear of the power blow, which they should be. . .that or get rid of the f-ing thing.

 

[Berzerk!]

I have updated the first post with feedback from mostly Rikuto, (as I hadn't put in his longstanding point of no hold from critical stun) Vyse, DrDogg. Other feedback either mirrored this or was character specific which is not the purpose of this thread.

I also want to note that in the last 7 pages of posts, I've had 7 or 8 individual posts of consolidated feedback to pull from. Please do not carry on personal arguments or treatises on the viability of the game. A little discussion around each piece of feedback so that what people are requesting can be understood is enough. Everything else, there's plenty of forum threads you could use or make.

So please refrain from off topic posting. Thanks!

Here's what I added. A couple of these went to the top of the post as they appear to be regular/core/common feedback.


- Each character must have moves that cause Guard Break and/or Frame Advantage

- Ensure each character has moves that will connect after a Guard Break, and moves that cannot be Held

- Remove or delay the ability to hold while in a critical stun

- It seems to me as though there's a delay in blocking low. When I try to block low, I get hit. When I try to counter low and I'm late, I get a block instead. If blocking low is not instant, that definitely needs to be changed.

- Stun threshold is lower (2-3 hits)
- Deep stuns maximize the threshold, or push it to the limit (next hit causes knockdown, launch, reset)

 

[Jefffcore]

Listen Jeff, if I get this idea into DOA5 then I'll be getting more pie in a week than you will in a life time.


Why can't you just support me and my quest for horizontal satisfaction?


Also, I think if you burn the counter everyone will be in mortal fear of the power blow, which they should be. . .that or get rid of the f-ing thing.

Ahaha. I'm sorry. Because the option to guess is the problem, if that was fixed, your idea would have almost no effect.

 

[x Sypher x]

I have a confession to make.

For the record, Emperor Cow's just the fall guy. (Almost) Everything he said were in my own words, and he made those "blind proclamations" because I told him to. I felt an urge to say something earlier, but was afraid to partake in this discussion, so I didn't bother to speak up for myself.

Take pity on him. It's me you should be mad at.

I call bullshit lol.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

Ahaha. I'm sorry. Because the option to guess is the problem, if that was fixed, your idea would have almost no effect.

Because with my idea you'd counter mid kick, I'd notice this and then I'd be able to land (With ) and all you'd be able to do is watch.

You guessed wrong once, you pay. Now, maybe I could decide to push you deeper into the stun and then land the combo for more damage but if I'm playing it safe, I'll just mid kick combo you into oblivion (but I never play it safe).

Thats what everyone wants right - guarantees? Well, my idea gives the defender one chance to reverse and if he misses you get a guaranteed juggle if you recognize what counter he used.

Jeff, agree with me, then you can get get the bitches and I'll commit the crimes and when its all over we form this shit up like Optimus Prime.

Roll out.

 

[grap3fruitman]

In the situation I described, your "pretty much guaranteed safe option" is to throw. In such a situation, the only option the guarding opponent has is to attack. If you have the feeling your opponent will attack then your frame advantage will meet first.

But you can't throw someone who's in frame disadvantage, so how is that my "pretty much guaranteed safe option?" I'm guessing that they're going to hold here and if I throw and they attack then I lost. Another guessing scenario.

 

[Jefffcore]

Because they're best options are to hold or block; until they have a reason to do otherwise.

 

[grap3fruitman]

It's kind of hard to only imagine how a hold-free stun game would play out. Compelling points are made in favor of it, but I want a hands-on evaluation, so it can "prove" itself as a clear superior choice.

Have you tried DOA1 or DOA++? DOA++ has stuns, holds and holding in-stun but so few moves cause a stun and holding during is such a pain that it's an entirely new and fresh experience. It really does feel nice to play that game and sort of does the things you specify.

That's why I think they should first try adding an option to TOGGLE what "stun system" is used. Make the current setup the default, but allow offline setting to be configured so that

That's a terrible idea because now you're splitting up the fan base even more.

 

[Chris Harris]

As Sorwah said it isn't the ability to guess out of certain situations but that you have to guess every second in DoA. So far in DoA5 they have some elements that allow you to control your opponent more and have better options to gain an advantage to inflict damage. Just how in every game there is a character that once they get in they make you guess and they net damage from it.

The thing with DoA 4 was that you couldn't limit the amount of guesses an opponent would get because you had to increase the launch height by giving the opponent 3-4 guesses before going for a launch. So the best way to get big damage was to actually counter or try for a throw.

In DoA5 while you can still hold out of almost everything the damage you get from walls/special walls(?), and the knock off ledge thing is pretty big. Though you can still reduce damage from the ledge scenario.

Having frame advantage gives you the ability to control someone MORE than it would if the move was unsafe. The best example I can think of is Hitomi's 3f+k. In 4 it was unsafe so the only real use for it was just throwing it out hoping for a CH or HCH. Having frame advantage in DoA gives you the ability to go for a mix up without having to worry about the strike option of their game. It gives you the ability to put your opponent in a mix up that benefits you. In DoA 5 having frame advantage with your opponents back to the wall can actually be very scary for the opponent seeing that the wall leads to a ton of damage and a knockdown. In 4 having your opponent back to the wall was more of a plus for them than you.

Overall the game is still in Alpha but they are taking a much better step this time around. Let's wait till we get some more info before complaining too much or even praising too much. Still a lot of time left fellas

 

[Matt Ponton]

But you can't throw someone who's in frame disadvantage, so how is that my "pretty much guaranteed safe option?" I'm guessing that they're going to hold here and if I throw and they attack then I lost. Another guessing scenario.

If you actually read the scenario that was presented then you would see that the defender is out of the frame advantage during the hit frame of the throw. Since there is a one frame delay, the attacker's hit frame connects while the opponent is at neutral. It's the same situation as the DOA4 unholdable.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Like I said in the post you quoted, I'm guessing that they're going to hold but if they attack then I lose out. There is no "pretty much safe" option, it boils down to another guess.

 

[Darrell]

Just making up crap here, but what if they added a meter system that could be either used for your PB or critical stun parry which gets you out of mid high or low? No?

 

[Matt Ponton]

Like I said in the post you quoted, I'm guessing that they're going to hold but if they attack then I lose out. There is no "pretty much safe" option, it boils down to another guess.

Yes, it is a "pretty much safe" option as throwing would stop all but one option, and that one option is an option that isn't typically a preferred option after guarding an attack as DrDogg himself has stated due to his desire of wanting attack punishment on guard. And that 'one option' the defender is forced into isn't going to destroy all of the attacker's options. The defender has one and only one good option, and it's up to how the attacker expects his opponent to react to said option to determine the course of action by the attacker. This is all part of reading your opponent, and you honestly could play the game just by guessing randomly like a moron, if you're doing that it has been proven through numerous applications of game theory in various walks of life that you won't survive in the long run to someone who is logically thinking.

 

[Allan Paris]

Just making up crap here, but what if they added a meter system that could be either used for your PB or critical stun parry which gets you out of mid high or low? No?

No.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

Just making up crap here, but what if they added a meter system that could be either used for your PB or critical stun parry which gets you out of mid high or low? No?

Ya know, I think a meter for that PB wouldn't be such a terrible idea.

 

[x Sypher x]

Ya know, I think a meter for that PB wouldn't be such a terrible idea.

Probably not, I'm open to the idea. Then again it seems like every fighting game now are using meters. It's kinda repetitive. I mean we already have the "invisible" SE meter.