The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

NightAntilli

Well-Known Member
Pardon my noob question since this concerns me, but is the match-up from Kokoro to Christie that bad for Kokoro? Or is it good? I'm curious because I take an obsessive interest in knowing my good and bad match-ups with Kokoro.

Fortunately, I can somewhat understand the game language lingo and stuff since it's similar to SCV game language despite being nooby at DOA5. Pardon my intrusion.


If you want to read the whole Kokoro vs Christie "controversy" that was going, it started here:


http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...ith-discussion-thread.2082/page-52#post-92114

It has multiple arguments from people who think it's 6-4, and people (including me) who think it's 7-3. I'll let you be the judge... It's about done on page 58.

On another note.. As a Leifang player, I'll list her, as I think she matches up. Just my opinion. Some of them I have not investigated, but I base them on personal experience. Not the best way, but whatever.



Leifang VS
Akira 6-4: Akira heavily relies on punches. Fang's punch parry can deal with most of them. General low punching with Akira is also not really recommended. It'll become predictable, and Leifang will simply do a low advanced hold to punish. Akira's offense must come almost exclusively from his grabs.
Alpha 4-6: Alpha can space her out easily, and Leifang being crappy at long range, she'll have a lot of trouble keeping up. She has to wait for Alpha to close the gap. Leifang has one main tool to deal with Alpha, and that's her mid kick hold, which is not that easy to land against a good Alpha player. Speed wise, Alpha has the advantage as well. Leifang's OH game is kind of nullified when Alpha has so many attacks that put her in air state.
Ayane 5-5: Kind of a toss up. Up close, Leifang can probably dominate due to her parries and crushes. Although Ayane has her fair share of evasive moves as well. At long range, Leifang is pretty much at Ayane's mercy.
Bass 6-4: Leifang can dominate with her speed, and Bass can't exactly turtle either since her grabs/OHs are pretty good. She still needs to be careful about holding though, since Bass' grabs are very damaging.
Bayman 6-4: They both have great defensive options, but Leifang has the speed advantage. Bayman's tankroll is slow enough that it can still be hit by K2K or 4KK. So main thing to watch out for are the grabs/OHs for Leifang. But she has those too.
Brad 6-4: Leifang has low OHs, she has her mid kick hold, she has the speed, she has low crushes. Brad only has space control and confusion.
Christie 5-5: Christie dominates the spacing. She also has great kicks, so Leifang's Unshu is not reliable here. Fang does have the ability to shut down JAK though, although not in the most efficient way. Also, mid kicks are dangerous for Christie. And Leifang is great on defense, so Christie's speed advantage is less great. Seems to even out pretty well.
Eliot 6-4: Unshu parry plus mid kick hold. That is all.
Gen Fu 5-5: They both kind of struggle at long range, so that even out. Gen Fu outspeeds up close, but, relies a lot on punches, which makes Leifang's unshu useful. Gen Fu's mid kick launcher is only sidestepable when held, so, Leifang's mid kick hold damage is shut down.. Both have parries... All seems pretty even to me.
Hayate 5-5: Long range nightmare for Leifang. Up close he's not really a problem for the most part. But most of his tools are long range. If Hayate gets any chance to space, Leifang will have trouble shutting him down.
Helena 5.5-4.5: Although Leifang has low OHs, chances are small that she can land one. We all know how Helena plays in this game. It's hard to get a proper hold in when she's all over you. The tide can turn easily in the match, but, Leifang has a slight advantage due to her versatility.
Hitomi 6-4: Leifang has the advantage due to her crushes. Her parries and unshu also pose a problem for Hitomi. Mid kick defense is pretty equal, since they both can get a bunch of damage from a correct advanced hold. Hitomi has better long range tools, but, Leifang's defenses seem to work well against her tools.
Jann Lee 5-5: The space king. Yeah. That's an issue. Due to his nerfs however, the matchup became pretty even.
Kasumi 5-5: Kasumi's kicks are not the best, so, that leaves her quite vulnerable to Leifang's unshu shenanigans. On the flip side, mid kick holds are unlikely to happen, except air ones, which don't give as much damage. One of Leifang's major damage tools therefore is gone. Leifang's OHs are also a risk due to Kasumi's many air states. The highest risk for Leifang are the low attacks of Kasumi. You can't get too eager with her parries, or you'll get punished.
Kokoro 6-4: Leifang's main long range weakness is kind of nullified here, since Kokoro doesn't have any kicks to close the distance gap. Other than that, Leifang pretty much has superior tools across the board, although Kokoro's stuns are superior.
Lisa 5-5: Yes, Leifang can have the advantage on close range, but, Lisa spaces so well, that Leifang is left to guess a lot more than against most of the rest of the cast. Lisa's grabs do a LOT of damage too.
Mila 5-5: I honestly have no idea, so I left it like this. Mila is another spacer. But, to close the gap, she needs to use mid kicks a lot. Up close, fast punches are fairly easy to deal with for Leifang. Mila's OH will always remain something annoying, but, it's not considered a big advantage by any means..
Pai 5-5: Pai is really underrated. She has so many mixups, and great frame advantage moves. Combined with her speed, she can easily dominate. She probably has the most sit down stuns of any character in the game. Pai can simply go toe to toe with Leifang. The one who outguesses/outreads the other player, wins.
Rig 6-4: Leifang's crushes are enough to deal with him in general. For that, Rig has to be on the offensive though. In general, when Leifang attacks a spacing Rig, she'll get hit in the face. What doesn't work is her unshu parry and OHs. What still works great is her crushes, mid parry, and her mix ups.
Ryu 5-5: Same old story regarding long range vs short range, and high dmg mid kick hold vs Izuna.
Sarah 4-6: Sarah is too good. Great spacing, great crushes, superior mixups...
Tina 4.5-5.5: Tina's grabs do too much damage. Leifang can't hold/parry like she's used to. Tina's crushes are also good enough to disrupt most of her things.
Zack 7-3: Zack doesn't have many tools to deal with Leifang's versatility. Mid kicks are risky, his stance can be low OHed, his punches can be parried, lots of his moves crushed, and his long range isn't too great either...
 

peachyO

Member
i really don't feel the latest bass MU chart is as accurate as the previous version. IMO he goes at 6-4 with zack, bass' favor, and i also feel he splits even with hayabusa and kokoro. i also feel akira is not 3-7, but rather 4-6; MAYBE 5-5 as well. on the other hand, helena might actually be a 3-7 match for him. whoever is responsible for this chart, please revisit these match-ups and reconsider them. thank you :)

p.s. PLEASE revisit some of gen fu's match-ups as well. there may be few gen fu players, but i am one, and he is far better than this. minus advanced holds, he has essentially all the tools lei fang has, especially in the parry department, and he is more powerful. yet she is apparently s tier, and gen is, well, not. he has many ways of receiving frame advantage, many guaranteed damage combos, and is effective from just about any range. he can also delay his strings to a ridiculous degree.
i love bayman, but he doesn't go even with the old man. i feel this is a solid 6-4 in gen's favor. the exact same is true IMO vs. zack. i wouls also argue that gen has no bad match-ups, and that his posted 4-6 matches are 5-5's instead.
 

Forlorn Penguin

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
PLEASE revisit some of gen fu's match-ups as well. there may be few gen fu players, but i am one, and he is far better than this. minus advanced holds, he has essentially all the tools lei fang has, especially in the parry department, and he is more powerful. yet she is apparently s tier, and gen is, well, not. he has many ways of receiving frame advantage, many guaranteed damage combos, and is effective from just about any range. he can also delay his strings to a ridiculous degree.
i love bayman, but he doesn't go even with the old man. i feel this is a solid 6-4 in gen's favor. the exact same is true IMO vs. zack. i wouls also argue that gen has no bad match-ups, and that his posted 4-6 matches are 5-5's instead.

I definitely think Gen Fu should, at worst, be at the bottom of A tier.

Can any Gen Fu players provide some MUs for the old man?

shunwong, SweetRevenge117
 

peachyO

Member
at least 5-5 with Zack? Dude....Bass can't crush him and he's slow Zack will run over him with constant pressure.
no disrespect intended but here is why i say this.
zack is very susceptible to low and (especially) mid counters due to his long strings, and bass' counters are all quite powerful, especially his expert mids. zack has much offensive pressure, true, but most of his weapons are quite unsafe. Bass doesn't have to crush zack; he merely has to bait an unsafe string or attack and punish with his 12 frame P+K, his 4 frame throw (T), or his 7 framer (3T) which provides +10. zack's speed is also neutralized every time bass knocks him down, as the +13 bass receives from his pick-up or 214P is quite enough to do the trick. once bass is on offense, that's it. he is simply too...damn...strrooooooonnnnnngggg!!!!!! sorry but i stand by my view.
 

WiZzYx

Active Member
Why Ayane is on Top? I mean, not based in the match-ups results, but in her offensive and defensive tools.
 

WiZzYx

Active Member
Another question. Why Christie is now a Top Tier? I thought she was Mid-Low Tier :confused: ...are being found new setups for her?
 

Chaos

Well-Known Member
She has a lot of good match ups.

She does nice damage, can't be easily stepped, has highly evasive attacks, safe ranged poking attacks, and she has solid mix-ups.

Not many characters have even half of that.
Thats why so many people use her.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Her costumes are also all good choices.
Personally, one of the things that bothers me is her vast array of shitty costumes. Then again, I have an atypical taste in outfit preferences.

There's really only two costumes I use with her, and one is DLC. Here's hoping she gets more/better options in DOA5U.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
Didn't Christie win that Japanese tourney recently? A week ago I hopped back on DOA5 and all I saw was Christies, so that's why suddenly she's good :rolleyes:
 

Koompbala

Well-Known Member
Didn't Christie win that Japanese tourney recently? A week ago I hopped back on DOA5 and all I saw was Christies, so that's why suddenly she's good :rolleyes:

A Christie placed 3rd and 1st its not like first place is a no name though. I actually remember playing TestTeam in 4. He played Kasumi in 4 I believe. Also I highly doubt that tourney is why. I'm pretty sure very few players watched that outside of Asia.
 

Matt Ponton

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
Standard Donor
Another question. Why Christie is now a Top Tier? I thought she was Mid-Low Tier :confused: ...are being found new setups for her?

She has a 9 frame jab, long strings that are easily string-delayable with good stuns, a unique side step that ducks highs and some mids AND can be done in the middle of a string, guard breaks that guarantee juggles, juggles that do a lot of damage, nice throw advantage set-ups, mix-ups, good evasive attacks with good stuns, and... yeah... I think that's it.

Oh, and yeah, the most important reason she's in the tier she's in? She has a lot of good match-ups, some are better than good, and more good match-ups than half of the cast.
 

FakeSypha

Well-Known Member
She has a 9 frame jab, long strings that are easily string-delayable with good stuns, a unique side step that ducks highs and some mids AND can be done in the middle of a string, guard breaks that guarantee juggles, juggles that do a lot of damage, nice throw advantage set-ups, mix-ups, good evasive attacks with good stuns, and... yeah... I think that's it.

Oh, and yeah, the most important reason she's in the tier she's in? She has a lot of good match-ups, some are better than good, and more good match-ups than half of the cast.
I'm not gonna say Christie is bad, but top tier? in the same league of Sarah? Well, I don't know in detail all her matchups, su that could be where I fail to see her up there.
For all I care she can be low, mid, top or whatever. I'm gonna use her anyways.

9 frame jab? sure, thats a pro.
Long and delayable strings? sure, but who can't delay strings in this game. Of course, Christie and her P strings can be abusive when delayed properly.
Jak? For sure, best tool she has. You gotta add you can manipulate stage positioning quite decently with it. The animation rotates Christie around the foe like 90° or maybe more.
Guard breaks? Yes, she has several guard breaks. Most of the are +2 or +4, save for 4P+K (a 30i move) which is +15. Correct me (please) but none of her launchers connect after it. That break only gets you a 6P as far as I know, and beyond that point you can get held.
Juggles? Granted. She has a variety of juggles for mid screen and wall juggles, some of them are damaging indeed.
Throw advantage? 4P+G only gets her a +4. Nothing is guaranteed, but mindgames are always nice.
Mix-ups? Granted.
Good evasive attacks with good stuns? yes, 214P is godly.

You can add 7K, which is more or less a 'panic button' move, and good pokes with long range (6P).
 
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