Free Step Dodge

I just have to be a dick, but KH1, KH2, and possibly Chain of Memories were technically the only KH that felt good as a finished product and longevity of their worth of playing.

However, I will give the benefit of the doubt if Disney make uses of Marvel's assets since they own that.

Course inb4 anyone says "well maybe they are in there, they just haven't shown them yet".

True, though they should of just kept promoting it like how they did with the first and second. Lessen that Disney vibe a bit.

Surprised to hear about mixed feedback, then again, KH3 did disappoint a good couple of players and we're at a point where KH as a whole is pretty complicated storywise, plus, as you said, some just want to see the FF and/or Disney characters in the game while not caring about the others. The people who're very into KH seemed to like it (then again, they're excited for anything KH in general).

KH always felt like Disney's Secret of Mana to me, even without the Final Fantasy characters.

And I got no problem with that.

As for KH1 and 2 only being the ones that feel good as a finished product (and arguably Re: Chain of Memories, which was just Chain of Memories remade into something that looks more like KH1/2 but still pretty much plays like the old version but on PS2), almost every game outside of the main games were made on a portable console, thus, the quality of those games had to suffer as a result.

It's the same whiny wheebs crying about Sepharoth and Cloud. KH3 was a great game - People are forgetting they're just guest characters and are not driving the actual story/plot of kingdom hearts whereas the disney characters are. The seven princesses of heart in KH1/2 were disney + Kairi.

@Radiance That's a very fallacious argument though. People are also forgetting that the driving force of Square is how KH came to be today, the promotion of FF popularized KH because of that push. Commercial, ads, music etc.

On that logic, majority of KH is guest characters then. Tarzan never met Mickey in his life. You (Sora/original) are a guest visiting worlds that don't align except by a standalone plot for a game series, because for some odd reason people have this perception in belief that in-house IPs merging with each other isn't labeled as guests when it is lol.

Ex: Everyone in Smash is a guest character including 3rd party.

I guess yes, they're all just guest characters, as the only original characters are Kairi, Sora, Riku, Organizational thirteen, and anyone wielding a key-blade. Stand-alone though we know for a fact that Disney characters have more push in the story than their FF counterparts - Mickey wielding a key-blade is proof of that. Like you said, FF characters were just promotional opportunities.

Everyone is free to opinionate on whether the series is good or bad without FF, but the point is, they're not crucial to driving the story/series and never have been.

@Radiance Technicially false, and you are by far the very few of those fans that mentions it wasn't crucial actually. Every other KH fans admitted to it via KH1. KH1 is proof upon on that, KH2 pushed it for one last go to see if the series can stand on their own without it (which they could if done right), and then turns out they fall flat without them. Leave the KH bias out the door for a minute.

Now if your counter argument is solely based on "opinion" and then state after they weren't crucial then it's not a solid argument if it's based on opinionated circumstances to determining supported validation (which is not). That's not how things work.

Everyone is free to make an opinion, duh sherlock. A opinion is "I think the series can survive without them but that's just my opinion", but does it make a good one? no & yes depending on how well they were received. However FF involvement is not an opinion at all, it was a definite support.

To spice up your post, a vast majority of KH fans were FF fans and quite a huge chunk of them picked it up because FF was in it in the first place and then stuck with KH even without FF support, that's how you do business well.

Ex: Nyxipuff (streamer) got into KH because Sephiroth & Tifa was in it, and then her streamers followed suit which is a ton of them and she became a big KH fan because of it.

You're arguing something completely different; I'm not talking about whether or not FF characters being cameos were crucial to KH's success. My point was, they add zero value to the story/lore of Kingdom Hearts. They're just "cameos", whereas the Disney character are actually involved and shaped around the story's plot. That's just a fact.

I already agreed that FF characters being cameos just helped promote the series, so all the extra posting was just unnecessary fluff. I could care less about whether someone thinks the series will succeed or fail without FF, it's pointless debating.

If FF characters were actually involved in Kingdom Hearts lore then stripped away, I could understand the back and forth, but they're not, so people can either play it or keep it pushing. Not understanding the debate lol.

@Radiance But they were involved with the plot and the story: KH2 Heartless swarm (crucial). The Traverse town/Hollow Bastion committee (quite crucial). Auron etc. The argument is tied together since it's the same premise.

If that's the approach you went with which is ironically banal, then one could also say that one should not care what another thinks if your response was "whiny weebs" and that "everyone should be entitled to an opinion even if mines doesn't really mean much" to contribute a point across. As they say, don't post what you don't know.

Which they were at one point, but yes people will continue playing series. No one said that no one will play KH4 because of it.

If KH flops because of bad gameplay & people complain, it's a genuine reason. If story flopped and people complain, it's a genuine reason. If it gets hit with the lack of creativity, FF, and the chances to include other major assets with complaints, then that's also a genuine reason.