Free Step Dodge

Kronin, this is not a silly question at all.

Standing OH's work against ALL strikes which leave the opponent standing, ALL defensive holds except low hold, and opponents who are doing a standing guard.

Low OH's work against ALL low strikes which leave the opponent crouching, low holds and opponents who are doing a crouching guard.

The reason why you might suspect that low OH's only work against low punches is because a low punch leaves you crouching most of the time. This isn't less true for low kicks.

* is less true for low kicks.

Thanks for the great explanation Jaimy, very clear and complete!

Yes, you are right, in my particular case the critical point was the placement of the opponent after the hit. If you think about it's pretty logical because an offensive hold is first of all a throw and so its sucess should be dictated in primis from the placement of the opponent.

I made the mistake to think about it only like an hold, and so in my mind I was giving the priority to the hitbox and I wasn't able to understand why it worked against certain kind of low hits and not others.

You're welcome.

The rule of thumb is that an Offensive Hold beats everything except regular throws (since Throws beat Holds in the triangle system).

So putting this is in formula:

Standing OH > Standing Guard, Standing DH (Defensive Hold), Standing Strikes.

Low OH > Crouching Guard, Low Hold (Defensive Hold), Crouching Strikes.

Standing Throws > Standing OH
Low Throws > Low OH

By this logic, OH's may seem overpowered. But this isn't the case. The two huge disadvantages are:

1) They don't deal much damage compared to regular throws.

2) Most of them are slow, speed ranging from 15 startup frames to around 30 startup frames. All regular throws usually range from 4 startup frames to 12 startup frames.

This is perfectly clear, thanks again for taking your time for explaining this to me. I realized the relationships of strenght/weakness and I understand that OH are very versatile however are not a secret weapon that allow to win the matches (and this just for a balance matter like you said).

The fact is that some players believe that with Ein it's vital to learn how to implement them in his gameplay, so for this reason I thought that I needed finally to make a further step and include even them in my "arsenal". Not sure if you agree or less with it.

I think it is a great idea to start implementing Offensive Holds in your play. Both Ein's standing OH (66T) and crouching OH (3T) are extremely useful. If someone is constantly pressuring you with strikes, then you can use 66T to stop their offense. The crouching OH (3T) is extremely useful against characters like Helena or Brad Wong since they have a crouching stance and lots of low strikes.

Oh and I forgot to mention that most OH's have a really good range. So don't hesitate to use them if there is some distance between your and your opponent or if you expect your opponent to run up to you and strike.

Try Marie's, Ein's or Leifang's 66T. You'll see that the range is much better compared to normal throws.

Thanks for your suggestions, truly appreciated =)

So I suppose that the advantage to use an OH compared to a standard hold is given from the fact that they can be used for more situations than against only strikes, get an higher range and remove the guessing about using a mid hold for punch or kick, right?

Yeah you pretty much summed up all the advantages of OH's compared to standard holds.

But, standard holds recover faster, can be used while stunned and are pretty much instant. You should you the holds exactly like the names imply: Offensive Hold for your offense and Defensive Holds (a.k.a. standard holds) for your defense.

Also, not every character has access to an OH. Most grappler-based (e.g. Tina, Bass) or hold-based characters (e.g. Leifang, Bayman, Marie Rose) do have access to an OH and it's definitely a huge plus if your character has access to it.

Understood, I will continue to use the OH as offensive throws and not as substitute of the DH =)