Free Step Dodge

He's not in the realm of being ''OP'' since people are so fundamentaly weak in this game. But like I said in my post, breaking down Hayate will very quickly make you realize how every single tool he has is good, not safe to compare him as a whole to something like Christie's wall game, hell, Jann Lee has a better wall game than her, he can kill you at the wall with 2 simple reads, lol.

Hayate has better whiff punishing tools than most of the cast. I've always said this in the past but one of the issues for Hayate has to be the players. Majority players that I've seen always want to play an up-close game with him in terms of neutral and perform double-edge sword scenarios while risking rewards just to go for setups.

In short cases, it develops habits that dismantles his life efficiency for long periods of time just for being in the game. He's like being placed in the hospital bed where they keep giving him the wrong medicine and telling the other doctors that it's working so keep doing it yet he's still sick.

I actually think this is Hayate's best version he's ever been in competitive intelligence speaking wise. The problem is match up related situations with adding players of different playing mentality. Everyone has bad match ups so he's no exception. People are still asking buffs for the character but I truly believe it's mostly for their own personal gains on how "they play".

Every character has an initial flaw implemented. Getting rid of such flaw will no longer make it a game but rather a competition of who gets to feel good on the inside with the characters they use. I wanted to use the character at one point but he's so generically bland as a character that he puts me to sleep. Same with Momiji and Gen Fu.

Hayate and Jann Lee share some similarities, in my opinion, playstyle-wise, that is. They're both characters with tools for virtually every situation in the game, but it's like DB says, Hayate players often go for a very up close and personal approach leaving all fundamentals aside, that limits Hayate greatly.

He's a character that can play at any range effectively, limiting yourself to only one range though, hurts the character's efficiency. A Hayate main should worry about learning the importance and tools for every range, at that point is when the character becomes truly frightening. He is able to make up for bad matchups and strengths by using fundamental play, not every character in this game can do that.

Some options of his can be avoided due to other character tools, sabaki, the ability to hold..but even that is random at best because it puts the opponent the situation to make mistakes either way, which Hayate can deliver.

Edit: Just saw the link up there, Rikuto and Hajin's got it with the players too, albeit more differently than what I had in mind, but yeah.

so, if im hearing this right; you guys, @DestructionBomb and @Darkslay , are saying that hayate's footsies are off the chain, but since most players would rather be in your face all day smothering you with buttons rather than play neutral, his greatest strengths' aren't being utilized

Can't say superbly off the chain due to opposing players putting in factors, but it's definitely better than most. Hayate on the long run doesn't get as screwed over compared to some characters in the cast playing a particular way in regards to footsies. The thing with Hayate is that he's versatile in these types of situations but you'd have to focus on all single factors here rather than a singular playstyle.

Do I think Hayate has weaknesses/placed in bad match ups situation against the cast? absolutely, I find Leifang able to shut down majority of his offensive options. However he is never placed in extremely bad matches scenario where it's the end of the world for him because he can actually avoid getting slapped in those situations just by playing in a fundamental manner.

imma be 100% the honest, the only hayate i've ever fought who's given me this impression is @iHajinShinobi 's hayate , no joke, when i fight his hayate i feel like can't hit button anywhere on the screen

I press a button in the mid range, i get CH with 4p, if he's in my face i gotta deal with the jab string mix ups, if im 3/4 screen away, im so busy worrying all the other stuff hayate can do at that range that i get hit with the run up/command dash grab all day.

If you can't hit buttons anywhere else on the screen then Hayate is doing a good job. He can feed off those mistakes a bit.

=(

maybe it's time to learn a character who says "screw your footsies, imma knock you down once and it's GG for you buddy" time to go to the dark side and learn helena? naw, me playing DOA5 helena? that's just crazy, think id rather focus on being better player overall rather than jump ship.

I agree Camel, Hajin's Hayate makes me wanna have a nervous breakdown, when I was playing Naotora he interrupted EVERYTHING. :-/ 2P, 2H+K, and 4KK were literally the only ways I could get him off me, but I felt clunky having to resort to that. >_<

Hayate overall next to Honoka is probably the only two characters I absolutely fear fighting, I can't deal with them at all.

i've heard the argument of honoka being secret top tier, but i haven't seen anyone do anything with her yet that makes me go "this character is too strong"

Just spam 3H+K online and you'll win. Take my word for it as a Hayate player :D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_C0drcI6QQ

Joke aside, Hayate is indeed strong but he's far from OP. His 4P and whiff punishment is godlike. With Hayate, you can choose to play up-close or from a distance.