DOA5U 1.04 Changes

[Matt Ponton]

It just released on PSN so I'm going to jot down things I found in this patch as I went through it.

• BT
  • Is a normal throw
  • Is now +15 on NT
  • Remains +21 on CT / HCT
  • On NT
    • guarantees and . is the better option in normal space as doesn't connect after
    • After you would get about 78 damage w/o dangerzones with , otherwise an easy for forward dangerzone, and
    • Grizzly Launcher is still guaranteed if you time it right and specifically use the notation . You basically have a 2 frame window since you have to go initiate crouching and you have an 11 frame throw.
• 
  • His arm is visually lower than it was in 1.03, meaning the hitbox has been lowered vertically
    • Will now connect on and when they're crouching, even if he's to their side
• on BT opponent
  • The system change to BT SDS means that he no longer gets a guaranteed from it.
    • It's now holdable (mind you is unholdable with a throw option)
    • It can't be guarded from fastest stagger
  • is still guaranteed

• I know there have been damage tweaks (buffs), but I don't know the 1.03 data well enough to verify

 

[Batcommander]

just a few more notes:

WR (the old ) is +1 on block at mid distance, possibly more at max range. Despite the muscle elbow being slower, it still seems un-interruptible. Really wish the BT throw became an OH, would've made that +1 so nice, sigh.

old is now , not like patch notes said ( i believe).

 

[Matt Ponton]

Patch notes said it would be 44P+K.

 

[UncleKitchener]

If I update the game on my jpn psn account to 1.04, would the game data on my eu account also change to patch 1.04 or will I end up with two different versions of the game?

Also, any changes to hitbox? That used to whiff on crouching Christie and Helena too, so I hope that doesn't happen.

Also, bats is kinda correct regarding the notation error in the earlier patch notes being , though it's not that important anyway. This change I hope will help with buffering this move on block (weird, I know, but I have my reasons) or to buffer it faster. Minor change for an average move however.

The major changes are the BT throw and WR .

The first thing that needs testing with WR is whether it's interruptable by 9i jabbers or not. If not, then I'd consider that a major buff along with the frame change on block.

In regard to BT throw, I don't like the initial descriptions I'm reading, but I have to check in myself to pass full judgement, but I'm really not happy. As usual, I'll message them on twitter, but I doubt this'll really kill him right now.

Probably what I'm most upset with is the change to , but I'm just glad they didn't fuck him over more.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yeah, the nerf to sucks as it's a system-wide change, not character specific. They just "fixed" the stun. However, now I don't feel like risking combo after counter throw BT . Sad days.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Yeeeeeah, I don't get why these changes were made. I'm really not familiar with Shimbori's mental thought, but I suppose some changes are not actually his ideas, but still.

I mean, is there any other reason anymore for not having a BT OH? They shit on the frame data and now you can't even do his good combos anymore, so it's just something waiting to happen. I mean, with these changes, it pretty much justifies the change back to OH again.

Or you know what? Fuck all this. I'm gonna pressure them to try something new instead.

 

[Batcommander]

ok i was wrong about muscle elbow, i forgot it had 2 parts to it. The second part of the move can be interrupted by i9 jabbers (that was the part that got slowed down in 1.04 i believe)`.

However, WR cannot be interrupted on block . . . but it was like this prepatch anyways. The only difference with the reduced recovery on WR is that you can delay Muscle Elbow until frame 43 instead of frame 38.

Thats it

I dont know why they went to all this trouble to mess with this move because the BT throw/Muscle Elbow mixup after WR on block already existed, so . . . yeah.

If BT throw went back to an OH then i could understand the changes, but otherwise why bother?

 

[Berzerk!]

While my overall feeling on the patch is that the changes are mild and largely inoffensive, there are too many changes that weaken already average/not overpowered strategies/moves with clear answers.

The BT throw change is absolutely nonsensical. It's like they balanced it against changing it back to an OH (unnecessary, but still), then forgot to give it the OH property that made them want to "balance" it.

Can you guys explain what has changed in the system that affects 9PP?

 

[Matt Ponton]

Can you guys explain what has changed in the system that affects 9PP?

I already did, but ok: http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/ultimate/us/information/info_20140204.html

Fixed to allow holds after standing up from a sit-down stun from behind.

 

[Berzerk!]

I found it, it's... unnecessary, again, but it seems players will have to be extremely quick to slow escape, then counter. Seems impractical, and if the BT setup still worked, I don't think this change would break it in most cases.

The problem is the change to his BT setup.

I don't know if this affects BT combos for other characters, I'd say not much due to that practicality issue.

 

[MrMoon360]

Judging by how slow Bass is, I'd say giving him more security in his landed moves would be fair. But being that BT 9PP nerf is a system change, I guess there isn't much we can do.
Frame advantage nerf to normal BT throw; nonsense. I can see why they wouldn't want to make him a threat when BT with an OH; I guess they feel he'd be "too OP" and players would have to be on there toes when he's BT -- not that I agree with that. If I understand their thought process correctly, its "nerf stuff that's brought to their attention that does good guaranteed damage".

Welp. Do we become vocal about these concerns or do we just deal with it?
I'm beginning to feel if these things are addressed, we'll end up being disappointed at what they decide to do in the end.
They prefer every combo have moderate damage (unless CB/PL) and be NOT guaranteed, it seems.

 

[Batcommander]

. If I understand their thought process correctly, its "nerf stuff that's brought to their attention that does good guaranteed damage".


They prefer every combo have moderate damage (unless CB/PL) and be NOT guaranteed, it seems.

yeah, thats what it seems to me too tbh. Oh well. I dont know what else we can do, so for now i guess we could just bombard them on twitter and do our best to roll with the changes (or non changes).

 

[UncleKitchener]

I don't know about you, but I'm spamming their twitter more often than before, either asking for new things or just annoying them with the whole BT T/OH issue.

You have to keep in mind that we're a very small minority in the community, but that really shouldn't deter us from being vocal.

 

[MrMoon360]

You have to keep in mind that we're a very small minority in the community, but that really shouldn't deter us from being vocal.

You're right. We're so minor that this adjustment makes even less sense. We're minor enough not to get massive complaints, yet this tweak is made. A nerf to overall usability of a high risk tool and a minor damage buff to a setup we already had. It's almost insulting.
I will become more vocal on Twitter right alongside you.

 

[Batcommander]

The BT throw change is absolutely nonsensical. It's like they balanced it against changing it back to an OH (unnecessary, but still), then forgot to give it the OH property that made them want to "balance" it.

?

thats exactly how it looks to me tbh.

anyways, off to twitter. im using a hashtag #buffbass lmao

 

[Matt Ponton]

Do we become vocal about these concerns or do we just deal with it?

Become vocal, but I feel they're basically in the see-saw of either lower the frame advantage or turn it into an OH. However, feel free to be vocal on what exactly it is you want.

Note: vocal means clear, calm, and concise language.

 

[UncleKitchener]

I don't know what your definition of clam and concise is, but I'm vocal to the point of being respectful and humble because I work in the industry too, so I know how it feels to deal with people like MaxDrago for example.


The change to on BT opponent ending up closer for guaranteed pickup is a good change.

 

[Berzerk!]

I think the move with lower disadvantage is fine if it's an OH. It was fine before as an OH with 21 advantage.
It's useless without being an OH because opponents are already used to out poking Bass, they won't block or counter. They will strike. So it must be an OH to force smart opponents to actually fuzzy.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Did some further testing and lot of the old stuff seem to be pretty much the same, unless it had something to do with the universal changes. The BT T chnages are most noticeable and TFBB after normal throw actually requires good timing and practice and I don't know why Shimbori punishes me so, but I bet he can't even do half the shit I can do with Potemkin.

, and are very viable options, but this sort of makes his matchups against heavy character a little worse than it used to be.

 

[Batcommander]

just wanted to add, since we are asking TN for buffs, we should probably clarify we want the BT OH to be 10 frames, because god forbid they give it back to bass but make it i16 (or something)