Advice on getting better

[Calintzsan]

I'm sure this topic has come up before or something, but I feel like my situation is a bit different than what people normally ask, in that it's more specific than others.

I've been playing DOA5U/LR for about a year and half now (first DOA game I've played), and I main Sarah. Within the last...I wanna say...4-5 months (one of those I took a break from DOA), I have started cancelling with her and trying to incorporate that into regular combat. All is well and good and I'm fully capable of performing any move she has to offer with ease (to the point of muscle memory), but I'm running into a bit of a snag.

I'm all fine with combos and whatnot, but when I use Sarah I want her to flow, be elegant and just attack swiftly with a refined style. So basically, I want to just do random stuff; I want to be able to use all of her moves available within one match (I can most of the time) and not repeat anything to a moderate extent. So in other words, think up mix-ups on the fly whilst flowing well.

This is what I'm having trouble with, because there are times I can do this when I get a stride going, but oftentimes I forget to use a good portion of her moves when I'm under pressure, losing or being defensive. The reason this is a struggle for me is that I have to focus my mind on being random, or mixing it up, otherwise I tend to repeat myself and it just looks sloppy. If I'm being attacked by an aggressive player, about to lose, or if someone is holding a lot, my mind starts to focus a great deal on that instead of what I want to apply in a fight. When this happens I start repeating and the problem ensues.

My question to the forum is, is there any advice for a guy like me trying to mix it up to what I described under all situations? Is there some kind of method that might help me with that? I just want to feel comfortable using Sarah under any circumstance (winning or losing) without feeling like I'm regressing instead of progressing.

 

[Lulu]

I only claimed Sarah as my main last week so I'm currently learning Sarah too.... I think I get what you mean.... just like the rest of the VF Characters, Sarah's Style is free form..... but it doesn't feel that way when you use her, because you just keep winding up sticking to a predictable pattern as if they were memorized and Pre-Baked by someone else and you're just recycling and reusing them........

You can't help but look back at your matches and think to yourself: "Damn I could have try doing this or that" but instead you kept doing the same old BnB Combos not adapting to the circumstances on the fly.

The problem is: "How do I make Sarah my own ?" "How do I make her feel like shes my second skin, an extension of my will ?"

Thats where I am with Sarah right now and I'm trying to change that...... so this isn't really my advice but its worth trying.... try taking Sarah to the Dojo and Becoming very intimate with her individual moves and how they relate to one other, hopefully that will allow you to adapt and change your attack style.....


LoL I was watching the Sarah Combo Guide and I saw some truly creative set ups and I was like: "Why can't I be that creative ?" I don't want to memorise that stuff.... I want to understand it, I want to formulate how to do it myself.

Edit: I have a slightly similar problem with my Jacky but he's not my main or my secondary so its no biggie..... but I would imagine people are also having trouble getting him to Flow just right for them too..... you know..... if people were actually playing him.

 

[Argentus]

Can't help ya with Sarah, but for flow its all about reading the opponent and fundamentals.

 

[Lulu]

Can't help ya with Sarah, but for flow its all about reading the opponent and fundamentals.

Jacky and Sarah have these weird moves that only seem viable if you can get the oppenent to Hold.
Like his ..... Jacky doesn't have a single stun that lasts long enough to get it to work other than the Critical Burst....... but if you can get them to hold then you cwn land this move while they recover...... lol I've been trying to get it to do more damage than a High Counter Throw, I can't..... the throw is just easier and does more damage.

In Sarah's case it's her Step Cancel.....

 

[Jyakotu]

You don't have to use all the moves to be considered good with a character. Often times in DOA, people try to be fancy or utilize all the moves of a character. You have to play smart and use safe moves that put you in advantage. Learning frame data can help with this.

 

[Calintzsan]

I know I mentioned Sarah in my question, but my post was dealing more towards the game in general and not Sarah specifically. I have this problem with every character too, but since I mostly use Sarah, I decided to describe my situation with her.

You don't have to use all the moves to be considered good with a character. Often times in DOA, people try to be fancy or utilize all the moves of a character. You have to play smart and use safe moves that put you in advantage. Learning frame data can help with this.

Well that's the thing, I know I don't have to, it's just a style of playing that I want to have for myself. I notice that most players don't do this, and only very few actually use most of a character's moves in a match. I don't like following a play style of others and I want to be able to condition myself to be able to cycle between all of her attacks (or anyone's in general) on the fly and not have to worry about repeating so much.

I only claimed Sarah as my main last week so I'm currently learning Sarah too.... I think I get what you mean.... just like the rest of the VF Characters, Sarah's Style is free form..... but it doesn't feel that way when you use her, because you just keep winding up sticking to a predictable pattern as if they were memorized and Pre-Baked by someone else and you're just recycling and reusing them........

You can't help but look back at your matches and think to yourself: "Damn I could have try doing this or that" but instead you kept doing the same old BnB Combos not adapting to the circumstances on the fly.

The problem is: "How do I make Sarah my own ?" "How do I make her feel like shes my second skin, an extension of my will ?"

Thats where I am with Sarah right now and I'm trying to change that...... so this isn't really my advice but its worth trying.... try taking Sarah to the Dojo and Becoming very intimate with her individual moves and how they relate to one other, hopefully that will allow you to adapt and change your attack style.....


LoL I was watching the Sarah Combo Guide and I saw some truly creative set ups and I was like: "Why can't I be that creative ?" I don't want to memorise that stuff.... I want to understand it, I want to formulate how to do it myself.

Edit: I have a slightly similar problem with my Jacky but he's not my main or my secondary so its no biggie..... but I would imagine people are also having trouble getting him to Flow just right for them too..... you know..... if people were actually playing him.

Well here's the thing, I have no problem doing this in dojo or offline; It's putting that into actual combat online that's making it difficult for me. No matter how much I train in dojo, or practice offline, I'm not able to incorporate that into online play. I think that's because my mind doesn't like sticking to patterns or anything, I generally enjoy playing when I'm spontaneous. Even with combos, although there are some I've come up with, I like to do them on the fly as well.

 

[Calintzsan]

Can't help ya with Sarah, but for flow its all about reading the opponent and fundamentals.

I feel like fundamentals might be part of the reason. This is honestly the first fighting game I've ever played online against other people, and before that I came from fighting games that didn't require low blocks, parries or anything like that (from the PS1 and PS2 era). I've been playing Tekken since around the time Tekken 2 came out when I was a kid, but when I played those games I was playing for fun and the enjoyment, rather than getting better. I never conditioned myself to getting used to blocking low or doing parries because, well...I never had to.

I know I would get a lot better at that if I had someone physically playing next to me (my cousin, but he's only played a couple of times), but for some reason it hasn't really helped much when I tried with online friends in a dojo session. I feel like it's some kind of mental thing or something, seeing as how that doesn't make much sense, lol.

I don't know if I'm going about the game at the wrong pace, am trying too hard, or if it's because this is my first experience with competitive fighting games, but I just know something is wrong. I'm also not looking for a cure-all method that can help me, just seeking advice from fellow players that might help hone me in on my problem.

 

[Lulu]

You don't have to use all the moves to be considered good with a character. Often times in DOA, people try to be fancy or utilize all the moves of a character. You have to play smart and use safe moves that put you in advantage. Learning frame data can help with this.

I feel like I should understand what purpose each move has before I decide to stop using it.... or maybe I'l force myself to use it because I'm trying to play outside of my home world for the sake if the character.

Well here's the thing, I have no problem doing this in dojo or offline; It's putting that into actual combat online that's making it difficult for me. No matter how much I train in dojo, or practice offline, I'm not able to incorporate that into online play. I think that's because my mind doesn't like sticking to patterns or anything, I generally enjoy playing when I'm spontaneous. Even with combos, although there are some I've come up with, I like to do them on the fly as well.

Thats awesome.... maybe you should just some how develope the presence of mind to be more spontaneous and free form.... obviously me telling you that doesn't help because you already know thats what you want..... I just don't know how to help you or myself get there....... but if I ever find out how you'l be the first person I tell

Normally when I try to break patterns I try to identify when the oppertunities are I have to do so.... "hey I'm on a slope.... let me see if I can squeeze in that one move that didn't work in the Dojo" if I can just seize that oppertunity once in the moment.... then I feel more like I'm adapting.... you just gotta to be curious and be able to recognize a scenario that will grant you an opportunity and jump on it the same time you spot it.

 

[Awesmic]

Well that's the thing, I know I don't have to, it's just a style of playing that I want to have for myself. I notice that most players don't do this, and only very few actually use most of a character's moves in a match. I don't like following a play style of others and I want to be able to condition myself to be able to cycle between all of her attacks (or anyone's in general) on the fly and not have to worry about repeating so much.

Getting better at a game has nothing to do about "establishing a playstyle", but about learning and knowing how and why the player uses certain moves and strategies in certain situations. From there, your personal ease in matchups depend solely on how well you know or can read your opponent... otherwise, you're merely telegraphing what you've seen other players do effectively in vain.

"Playstyles" are a lie and a stigma spawned from hero worship which ultimately results in ego-boosting already-established players, and only serves to downplay other players who succeed playing differently from others, labeling them as "frauds" and whatnot. The truth is, we have our ups and downs, strengths and weaknesses, as well as satisfactions and disappointments all in different ways.

In the end, no one can be like someone else, only themselves. So don't get discouraged about "finding a playstyle you can call your own". Just worry about discovering why things work the way they do, apply it consistently, know your opponent in the process, and go from there.

 

[Jyakotu]

Well that's the thing, I know I don't have to, it's just a style of playing that I want to have for myself. I notice that most players don't do this, and only very few actually use most of a character's moves in a match. I don't like following a play style of others and I want to be able to condition myself to be able to cycle between all of her attacks (or anyone's in general) on the fly and not have to worry about repeating so much.

I feel like I should understand what purpose each move has before I decide to stop using it.... or maybe I'l force myself to use it because I'm trying to play outside of my home world for the sake if the character.

See, here's the thing. When it comes to utilizing moves, not all moves are safe and/or are meant to be used in neutral. Some moves are meant to be for launching, combo filler, what have you. The reason why tournament players are top level is because they know when to use and utilize moves effectively instead of taking risks on moves and set ups that don't work. In DOA, you have to play smart and you can't play smart if you're mashing out unsafe strings and then getting blown up by it. This is where the depth of the game comes in.

In any fighting game, characters have tools that are meant to compliment their fighting style and the style of the player. For example, with Ayane, I like to use her spins to create space and also confuse opponents. Same goes with her flips. Learning when to use what move is vital if you want to get better at DOA, not using every move in a character's move list.

 

[Lulu]

Well my Sarah got a tiny bit better.... I'm aware of the environment and I'm modifying my juggles accordingly..... lol I missed an opportunity to use a rare move because the camera screwed up on me....

I'm stil trying to get / to work.... Psychich moves don't work on the AI.

 

[Calintzsan]

I feel like I should understand what purpose each move has before I decide to stop using it.... or maybe I'l force myself to use it because I'm trying to play outside of my home world for the sake if the character.



Thats awesome.... maybe you should just some how develope the presence of mind to be more spontaneous and free form.... obviously me telling you that doesn't help because you already know thats what you want..... I just don't know how to help you or myself get there....... but if I ever find out how you'l be the first person I tell

Normally when I try to break patterns I try to identify when the oppertunities are I have to do so.... "hey I'm on a slope.... let me see if I can squeeze in that one move that didn't work in the Dojo" if I can just seize that oppertunity once in the moment.... then I feel more like I'm adapting.... you just gotta to be curious and be able to recognize a scenario that will grant you an opportunity and jump on it the same time you spot it.

Getting better at a game has nothing to do about "establishing a playstyle", but about learning and knowing how and why the player uses certain moves and strategies in certain situations. From there, your personal ease in matchups depend solely on how well you know or can read your opponent... otherwise, you're merely telegraphing what you've seen other players do effectively in vain.

"Playstyles" are a lie and a stigma spawned from hero worship which ultimately results in ego-boosting already-established players, and only serves to downplay other players who succeed playing differently from others, labeling them as "frauds" and whatnot. The truth is, we have our ups and downs, strengths and weaknesses, as well as satisfactions and disappointments all in different ways.

In the end, no one can be like someone else, only themselves. So don't get discouraged about "finding a playstyle you can call your own". Just worry about discovering why things work the way they do, apply it consistently, know your opponent in the process, and go from there.

See, here's the thing. When it comes to utilizing moves, not all moves are safe and/or are meant to be used in neutral. Some moves are meant to be for launching, combo filler, what have you. The reason why tournament players are top level is because they know when to use and utilize moves effectively instead of taking risks on moves and set ups that don't work. In DOA, you have to play smart and you can't play smart if you're mashing out unsafe strings and then getting blown up by it. This is where the depth of the game comes in.

In any fighting game, characters have tools that are meant to compliment their fighting style and the style of the player. For example, with Ayane, I like to use her spins to create space and also confuse opponents. Same goes with her flips. Learning when to use what move is vital if you want to get better at DOA, not using every move in a character's move list.

Thanks all three of you. Your comments have actually helped. I think I just need to not take the approach that I was trying to and instead just figure out what I can do and utilize it until I get more comfortable with reading people, like Awesmic said. Jyakotu, I feel like if I just try to understand where her moves apply best, that it might help me with my mix-up game since I'll understand the circumstances better. I still want to be an on-the-fly player for sure, but I'll try the approaches mentioned here first before I just jump right in. Thanks for the insight Lulu, I actually am able to adjust to environmental changes pretty well, but I will work on those more. That might help as well seeing as how the change in tactics is like another form of mix-ups.

Also, for Lulu, yesterday I played the game and decided to just not care about winning or losing and to just enjoy myself. Before I cared too much and I thought maybe I was mentally blocking myself from improving as a result. Turns out I was doing much better than normal going with this approach, as I noticed I was reading people better and my defensive game improved too. I was able to use more moves this time, but while it's not the goal I'm reaching for, it's a start.

Thank you to the three of you for the advice. I combined all of your points when playing and I feel like I can get better without trying to rush things. I just need to focus on the fundamentals more and learn to read, adapt, and utilize moves that are effective under specific circumstances like you three pointed out. Thanks again, you were all a great help.

 

[JJpalmer]

I too struggle with it i still have trouble finding whats good on a character and breaking my patterns on sarah

 

[Calintzsan]

I too struggle with it i still have trouble finding whats good on a character and breaking my patterns on sarah

It's not so much what I understand in terms of usefulness, it's more or less being comfortable enough with my opponents and being able to mix-up on-the-fly without repeating that's my issue. This has been getting better though after addressing my issue here. Progress, however small, is something I'll take.

 

[JJpalmer]

Thats great i have a long way to go