Alpha Demo character differences? (nerfs/buffs)

[Zeo]

I remember hearing that some things were changed from the Alpha Demo, things like Hitomi's 3F+K no longer having advantage on block and Hayate's 2/8P+K nerf.

I didn't spend a lot of time playing the Alpha Demo but I know there are some people that broke it down and I'd like to know what all the character changes were from the Alpha demo to the final product (namely Hitomi and Hayate), and how these characters would have shaped up in today's DOA5 if they had remained their Alpha incarnations.

 

[DR2K]

Hitomi really seems unchanged from Alpha demo for the most part.

 

[Raansu]

Hitomi really seems unchanged from Alpha demo for the most part.

Wrong, she had several attacks that gave her +1 to +3 frame advantage which allowed her to keep you frame trapped all day long.

 

[DR2K]

Wrong, she had several attacks that gave her +1 to +3 frame advantage which allowed her to keep you frame trapped all day long.

So do the VF character, but they can't keep you frame trapped like that.

 

[Zeo]

Wrong, she had several attacks that gave her +1 to +3 frame advantage which allowed her to keep you frame trapped all day long.

I know you know Hitomi well, can you tell me what those attacks were specifically if you remember? If you know details I'd like to know what they were changed to. All I know is that 3F+K went from +2 to -3.

 

[Raansu]

I know you know Hitomi well, can you tell me what those attacks were specifically if you remember? If you know details I'd like to know what they were changed to. All I know is that 3F+K went from +2 to -3.

I don't remember everything off the top of my head but 3f+k was +1 to +3 depending on the range. It was +0 at point blank. 6p+k was +1. 2f+k was +7 instead of +5(on hit). 8pp2k was +15 or 16 (on hit) instead of where it is currently +13. A lot of her stuff remained the same since alpha, but she lost some good frame traps in the process.

So do the VF character, but they can't keep you frame trapped like that.

Are you kidding me? Do yourself a favor and go spend some time in sparring with the VF characters. They have frame traps out the ass. Something that pretty much the majority of the DoA cast does not have the luxury to have. Hitomi and Sarah are both striker characters yet Hitomi doesn't get any real frame advantage on block while Sarah has multiple frame traps on block.

 

[DR2K]

Are you kidding me? Do yourself a favor and go spend some time in sparring with the VF characters. They have frame traps out the ass. Something that pretty much the majority of the DoA cast does not have the luxury to have. Hitomi and Sarah are both striker characters yet Hitomi doesn't get any real frame advantage on block while Sarah has multiple frame traps on block.

I have, and they can't do what you described to that extent.

 

[Raansu]

I have, and they can't do what you described to that extent.

Sarah gets +4 off a simple kick attack. Clearly you haven't looked very well.

 

[DR2K]

Sarah gets +4 off a simple kick attack. Clearly you haven't looked very well.

I'm not arguing that they don't exist, I'm just saying they aren't as effective as you described. If it's a high or high mid I'll use my instant crush attacks to beat it out, or my 0 frame holds to negate your offense.There is no such character in this game that can constantly pressure because the general system we have in place has many more defenseive options available at all times.

 

[Raansu]

I'm not arguing that they don't exist, I'm just saying they aren't as effective as you described. If it's a high or high mid I'll use my instant crush attacks to beat it out, or my 0 frame holds to negate your offense.There is no such character in this game that can constantly pressure because the general system we have in place has many more defenseive options available at all times.

You don't know what a frame trap is do you?

 

[Zeo]

You don't know what a frame trap is do you?

Sadly Akira doesn't really have any frame traps, He's got about 4 +1 frame attacks but you can only safely pressure with 66p after those. If you got +5 off his 214p at any range instead of max range only that would be a legit frame trap and would make him much MUCH scarier.

 

[Raansu]

Sadly Akira doesn't really have any frame traps, He's got about 4 +1 frame attacks but you can only safely pressure with 66p after those. If you got +5 off his 214p at any range instead of max range only that would be a legit frame trap and would make him much MUCH scarier.

Better than nothing lmao. I'd take that over having all my + attacks changed to -3.

 

[Allan Paris]

Hayate's 2/8P+K(P) was godlike. That thing could SS like no other. It gave like 3 or 4 different types of stuns. The sit-down and the back stun were the ones that would be a problem now if he still had it from the move. The back stun he still has but it so inconsistent, you never know when you're going to get it. Anyways, it didn't matter if people doubled or tripled up their attacks, once he did 2/8P+K nothing else mattered. Getting to the opponent's back was not issue either with this move, Hayate could get their frequently. Before the game was released TN nerfed it to hell. I noticed it at the 2nd pre-release tournament in Cali.

His 8K was hold resistant.

TN did buff or fixed his 3F+K string, Hayate didn't have the punch follow up after the low sweep in the Alpha Build.

His wind dash attacks weren't all linear; his upper cut tracked, and his mid kick launcher tracked as well (4F+K). Now the only thing that tracks in it is his throw.

I can't think of anything else at the moment but I know there was more shit that they changed/took from him in the Alpha Build. If still had this stuff now he'd be a stronger character than he is now. 2/8P+K by itself was a ridiculous tool.

 

[DR2K]

You don't know what a frame trap is do you?

I know they don't exist to the extent of your exaggeration in this state of DOA5. Ayane could constantly keep herself at +7 and that only worked because you couldn't hold her string, you had to respect her offense. That is absolutely not the case for any of the current "frame traps".It is now +1 and that isn't enough to do any kind of trap. As Zeo mentioned.

Perfect Legend's Ayane was a frame trap queen in DOA5.0.

Care to show me a VF character doing the types of frametraps in DOA5 in an actual match?

 

[Zeo]

snip

Now I remember it being a sit-down stun, to nerf the sidestep properties though, I don't understand how you can take away tools like that from a character like Hayate and give the top tiers all the tools they have.

Still stumped as to why 8K is holdable now also. Useless in DOA4 and as soon as it has a use now it can be held, it needs to go back to DOA2/3 status. Both Hayate and Hitomi need to go back to alpha status in a lot of ways in addition to other buffs, then I think they'll be solid. I have a list of things I'd like Hayate to have in order to make him legit, but I'll save that for the Hayate thread. (Also didn't he have an expert mid punch hold in the Alpha demo?...)

Any info on Hayabusa? Ayane is pretty solid as is so I don't really think she needs much improvement, Busa is desperate for it though. Was he any better in the Alpha build?

 

[Raansu]

Holds or not, a frame trap is still a frame trap. You could hold Jann's 6pk in 3.1, still didn't change the fact that it was one of the better frame traps in the game.

Any info on Hayabusa? Ayane is pretty solid as is so I don't really think she needs much improvement, Busa is desperate for it though. Was he any better in the Alpha build?

I remember Hayabusa being pretty terrible in the demo. Hitomi would eat him alive. Hayate as said had a damn near broken SS lol but aside from that he was meh. Ayane and Hitomi were solid in the demo. I think Hitomi needed a bit more guaranteed tools, but aside from that she was definitely way better in the demo than she is currently.

 

[DR2K]

I never said they didn't exist, I just said they aren't really as effective(as you claimed) in DOA5.

 

[Raansu]

And I'm laughing at the fact that you don't think they are.

 

[shunwong]

Frame advantage, in a game where most characters don't get any, is huge.

 

[Zeo]

Frame advantage, in a game where most characters don't get any, is huge.

Couldn't agree more, every character should have some form of accessible frame advantage. This does not include retardedly slow moves that require windup that you'll never actually land in a real match. Things like Gen Fu's 66p, Hitomi's 3F+K, Busa's 4pk, Eliot's 46p finishers, etc. should have advantage on block. As the game is now only VF characters can safely apply pressure and even some of them (*cough*Akira*cough*) can't do it that reliably.

Even characters like Kokoro, Jann Lee and Leifang who are considered "safe" characters are still at a disadvantage on block. I can only think of one move Kokoro has that's +1 on block, and it's a 22 frame high punch. Useful.