Are you happy with Last Round?
- Thread starter deathofaninja
- Start date
So you want DOA5:LR to be cancelled? That's the only way the milking is going to stop for DOA5.
1.) They "plugged" Ultimate as a "New" version/iteration of DOA5. They never said at one point EVER, "Hey, look, a new sequel to the Dead or Alive franchise is coming out! It's DOA5 Ultimate! YAY!" You make it sound like it was as bad as making Peggle 2.
2.)And yes, DOA5U is different from Vanilla AND 5+. Did DOA5+ have Ein, Leon, Jacky, Momiji and Rachel? No.
Did DOA5+ have a Lock Out system, and a revamped tag mode? No.
Did DOA5+ have collectibles in Survival? No.
Did DOA5+ have Lost World, Sky City Tokyo, Forest, Lorelei, Desert Wasteland, Aircraft Carrier AND Haunted Lorelei? No.
Did DOA5+ have new moves for every character? No.
You get the point. But, you do realize DOA5:LR is supposed to be a port to Next Gen (Current Gen) systems, where everybody is getting the consoles or at least has the incentive to obtain one, right? Anyways, wasn't it requested by a lot of us here that DOA5 should come to next gen? I'm not annoyed at your rant bout DOA5:LR, because some points were true. I'm annoyed at what you said about DOA5U. Because none of that, was correct.
Take a walk.
Rant aside: Crimson, though. I want that extra room.
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Just gonna.... Edit it out...
Kronin
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with @Cr!msonWarrior 5U is truly different from 5 and 5+ even for me.
PS: another difference is that 5U include the modes Team Battle, Survival Tag and Tag Online: with the fact that I play often all of three (and Ein is my secondary main), just this is enough for me to consider the Ultimate version substantially different from the Vanilla one.
PS: another difference is that 5U include the modes Team Battle, Survival Tag and Tag Online: with the fact that I play often all of three (and Ein is my secondary main), just this is enough for me to consider the Ultimate version substantially different from the Vanilla one.
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
Don't put words in my mouth! I said: Given that this is just an excuse for more DLC "Let's add this, let's add that!" And you wonder why I'm not happy! Nevermind, you're also saying to get the extra "dlc" crap, you need another console! (ie: Windows 8.1 and that fuck up, but I need a whole new computer for Windows 8.11 - it's 10, but you get the point!) - A major piece of hardware for a minor piece of software! If this were anything else ($500 headset to hear gunshots more accurately). Do you see how stupid this is? Or, a $400 - $350 now - for one game! (Six brand new 360 games for a bigger brick!)
I know DOA2 did this, but I doubt there were happy campers either! Why wasn't DOA4 milked? That game came with nothing! The only thing was it being an Xbox 360 launch title and better online capability. I'm hoping they pushed just as hard for DOA4's launch since it was a new system (2005) as hard as they're pushing DOA5! (for next gen)
The XBO/PS4 is two years into their cycle and the rush to get games on those systems because of the "bigger is better" philosophy! Then, there's the issue of "No games!" Last gen - 360 had all of them; this gen, it's a complete reversal! And then, the graphics - PS4 = 1080p, XBO = 900 (360 = 720; looked 1080 because of the tv)
But, I guess, you're right! No, there shouldn't have been one! Trying so hard to release it on next gen. I would've been fine with just Ultimate! You have more time for DOA6 - you could've included what you have added from LR into DOA6, but it looks as if it'll be "shoehorned" in.
Need I go back to TR9? That was garbage! MK9 --> MKX (and it's cross-gen) - that is not! I'm getting that because it's NEW! NRS, stopped - "updating" - after MK3! Even Injustice. After UE, they said they were done! MKX now, and Injustice II later (we may get some UEs, but don't milk it dry. I doubt they will)
You think I'm disgruntled? How can people call Microsoft greedy (Six consoles) but TN is in trouble, so they need to be greedy? (DLC out the ass!) I mean this with all due respect - it's not just them - but if you can't see that this is greed, I don't know what to say! See how much deeper this is than some painted on costume? (Master's rant about half a stage, but I can't say anything? Okay!)
The least we could have expected from TN is a port of Ultimate to current gen consoles (a la Injustice, Street Fighter 4 Ultra) and they very well could have done just that. The fact that they are making an upgrade to the game via new stages (sure they have been confirmed as exclusive for now) and at least 2 more characters and possibly balance changes on top of including Ultimate's DLC characters while giving a free update (not for free if you want playable LR content) is still better than what almost every fighting game upgrade has done.
Expecting something ground breaking like the addition of Power Launchers in Ultimate isn't far fetched but expecting another five characters and ten stages on top of what time had already been spent on creating MR, P4, and Nyo while developing Danger Zone and Crimson and two new characters/music while keeping the arcades alive in a short time is too much (aside from the fact they are running out of characters to bring back, I would love to see Raidou AND Genra make a glorious return eventually). There is a lot more to put into making characters and stages (especially DOA stages) than a lot of people realize. I'm not exactly a developer but I've had insights into development for some 2D and 3D fighters (2D being far less demanding to make than 3D) and in short time spans you can only get so much done. Once the games are released they have a ton of time to develop more stages or get moving on to making a next gen exclusive DOA which is the smart move to make at this point.
This is a really smart move on TN's part and Tecmo's in whole. The current gen in general really lacks fighters. Why not put DOA up in the early stages of fighting games to secure a place of interest in people who have never played PS3/360 or earlier games or those who have an interest? Not to mention the pricing on the game is phenomenal. $30-40 for 34 characters, 15+ stages (DOA style stages as well, not flat stages), more features in Training mode alone that other titles don't have in their whole games, multiple versus play modes, combo challenges, a tutorial that covers everything you need to know to play the game (and does better than anyone else), upgrades resolution and textures and particle effects, a better engine to make things look nicer (have not seen in person yet but it sounds promising), a music setting that does not exist anywhere else, and actual submitted character costumes. That is a freaking good deal for what Last Round offers. All the other games would charge a full $60.
Oh, and Core Fighters on both current systems (a Trial on XBone is free but for about $5-$6 you get eight characters and a "real" Core Fighters experience) which is the best free to play fighter model on the market.
An upgrade will be available on last gen (no real details on Ultimate DLC characters yet) but I would expect that to be between $15 and $20 which is a good price. If they made the upgrade cheaper than $15 I would be happily surprised.
Right now the only issue I see with LR is the stage exclusivity (primarily for tournaments until TOs can comfortably afford current gen consoles en masse but that is also another thing to consider) but I can see how TN wants that to work. Last gen is ending, it is time to move forward to current gen and LR is a good start for it. You don't have to buy a new console to keep playing LR (hell, buy a used one and save a few bucks if you decide to get one) but if you want the full experience you have to just grit your teeth and deal with it.
For all the great stuff we have seen for Last Round a lot of you guys are incredibly disappointed in what we will get. I want to see more classic stages as well but right now just ride it out and chill the fuck out.
Expecting something ground breaking like the addition of Power Launchers in Ultimate isn't far fetched but expecting another five characters and ten stages on top of what time had already been spent on creating MR, P4, and Nyo while developing Danger Zone and Crimson and two new characters/music while keeping the arcades alive in a short time is too much (aside from the fact they are running out of characters to bring back, I would love to see Raidou AND Genra make a glorious return eventually). There is a lot more to put into making characters and stages (especially DOA stages) than a lot of people realize. I'm not exactly a developer but I've had insights into development for some 2D and 3D fighters (2D being far less demanding to make than 3D) and in short time spans you can only get so much done. Once the games are released they have a ton of time to develop more stages or get moving on to making a next gen exclusive DOA which is the smart move to make at this point.
This is a really smart move on TN's part and Tecmo's in whole. The current gen in general really lacks fighters. Why not put DOA up in the early stages of fighting games to secure a place of interest in people who have never played PS3/360 or earlier games or those who have an interest? Not to mention the pricing on the game is phenomenal. $30-40 for 34 characters, 15+ stages (DOA style stages as well, not flat stages), more features in Training mode alone that other titles don't have in their whole games, multiple versus play modes, combo challenges, a tutorial that covers everything you need to know to play the game (and does better than anyone else), upgrades resolution and textures and particle effects, a better engine to make things look nicer (have not seen in person yet but it sounds promising), a music setting that does not exist anywhere else, and actual submitted character costumes. That is a freaking good deal for what Last Round offers. All the other games would charge a full $60.
Oh, and Core Fighters on both current systems (a Trial on XBone is free but for about $5-$6 you get eight characters and a "real" Core Fighters experience) which is the best free to play fighter model on the market.
An upgrade will be available on last gen (no real details on Ultimate DLC characters yet) but I would expect that to be between $15 and $20 which is a good price. If they made the upgrade cheaper than $15 I would be happily surprised.
Right now the only issue I see with LR is the stage exclusivity (primarily for tournaments until TOs can comfortably afford current gen consoles en masse but that is also another thing to consider) but I can see how TN wants that to work. Last gen is ending, it is time to move forward to current gen and LR is a good start for it. You don't have to buy a new console to keep playing LR (hell, buy a used one and save a few bucks if you decide to get one) but if you want the full experience you have to just grit your teeth and deal with it.
For all the great stuff we have seen for Last Round a lot of you guys are incredibly disappointed in what we will get. I want to see more classic stages as well but right now just ride it out and chill the fuck out.
Kronin
Well-Known Member
I agree with you @XZero264 , it's just the absence of the stages on old gen that leaves me a bad taste in the mouth, otherwise I would be completely glad of what TN made so far: like every fans I want more of everything me too, but proprotionate with what TN is giving us (and all the ways for playing the game paying nothing or very few for the basic) personally their offer doesn't seems to me bad at all. If something everything pale just compared to the offer of the previous 5 Ultimate, but maybe it's possible that in a such case the "problem" was just an excess of contents for being a remake (not that it's a bad thing, similar problems should happen more often XD). I simply believe that this happened because 5U is truly the version of Vanilla that TN wanted create but that lacked of the resources for doing it, while 5LR is only a more ordinary update of a game already "completed".
Said this I'm sure that TN will continue to work at least for an year on Last Round exactly as they already done for DoA5 and 5 Ultimate: maybe now it's still too much soon for knowing it (and so who have doubts is better for him to get a core/free version of the game), but during this year I'm sure that we will see more additions to the game than just new outfits. And of course there are still some months before the release, I believe there is still all the time before the gold time of the development for surprising us with something that aren't just the new characters.
Said this I'm sure that TN will continue to work at least for an year on Last Round exactly as they already done for DoA5 and 5 Ultimate: maybe now it's still too much soon for knowing it (and so who have doubts is better for him to get a core/free version of the game), but during this year I'm sure that we will see more additions to the game than just new outfits. And of course there are still some months before the release, I believe there is still all the time before the gold time of the development for surprising us with something that aren't just the new characters.
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
@Kronin:
If Ultimate was supposed to be Vanilla, why didn't they just wait? LR like Ultimate is DLC and you know what I'm about to say here: "I got all of this extra content for nothing!" I don't feel this was the case with Ultimate, but LR, yep - especially since I have to get the "DLC" already included on next gen - until I decide to get the next gen console.
But wait! We're expecting too much? Yet, devs/studios are barking about how "We gotta push said system to its limits." Therefore, they do everything possible to achieve this! There's nothing wrong with that, but you're saying: "We're gonna be the best thing since sliced bread!" - and not think folks will have lofty expectations? But I'm amazed at how those who don't "kiss ass" need to chill. What if those who do that are disappointed? That 'I told you so!" pill is harder to swallow for those who expect the best, but get the worst than those that expect the worst, but get the best!
I read the article where tourney players weren't impressed. I would think that a demo ought to impress you before you get the damn thing! Master, again! I'm saying I'll play it and hope I like it, but if I don't. Get LR over with and move on to DOA6 as it is looking like a contrived piece of work now!
If Ultimate was supposed to be Vanilla, why didn't they just wait? LR like Ultimate is DLC and you know what I'm about to say here: "I got all of this extra content for nothing!" I don't feel this was the case with Ultimate, but LR, yep - especially since I have to get the "DLC" already included on next gen - until I decide to get the next gen console.
But wait! We're expecting too much? Yet, devs/studios are barking about how "We gotta push said system to its limits." Therefore, they do everything possible to achieve this! There's nothing wrong with that, but you're saying: "We're gonna be the best thing since sliced bread!" - and not think folks will have lofty expectations? But I'm amazed at how those who don't "kiss ass" need to chill. What if those who do that are disappointed? That 'I told you so!" pill is harder to swallow for those who expect the best, but get the worst than those that expect the worst, but get the best!
I read the article where tourney players weren't impressed. I would think that a demo ought to impress you before you get the damn thing! Master, again! I'm saying I'll play it and hope I like it, but if I don't. Get LR over with and move on to DOA6 as it is looking like a contrived piece of work now!
All the great stuff? You mean Danger Zone and an incomplete level? A Graphic redesign that isn't good.
Kronin take the person that plays DOA5U everyday, sees the same stages everyday and ask them if they are content with the packaging. If you're only in the game for outfits, I guess... but everyone else should be fighting for more content. More people are unhappy than happy (THANK GUD), so something should be done.
I can picture the casual player dealing with Last Round, but not one that is hardcore...
Otherwise I see this as a missed opportunity, for fans hoping for more original content.
Since they are sticking witch the Core Fighters offer (on either console generation) I'd assume that you can purchase the new chars separately (for 4-5$/€ each, or like 8AUD
) and that you can buy a single LR Outfit Bundle that contains all the costumes(like the DoA5 Outfit Bundle back when 5U was released) for like 20 bucks... maybe 15, would surprise me though... you probably won't save much doing a complete DLC upgrade over buying the "full version"Still, upgrading their 5U Version is probably the way to got for most people (instead of buying a new copy of LR... for last gen anyway)
I guess you should be able to do something like "get the current gen Core Fighters" » "import your old save, to get all the DLC" » "buy the new DLC you want" ... but that still requires some clarification...
Kronin
Well-Known Member
@Intelligent Alpha: Team NINJA talked more times of contents excluded from DoA5 tied to a lack of resources (money and time) as Ein, Leon, Bankotsubo, Jacky, the presence of a rainy stage. Material about the development of Zack Island was got already during the production of DoA5, even so that stage was able to be completed only after months the release. Of course all of this alone is not enough to give an evidence of truth, but personally I don't find a so impossible circumstance, just the opposite (differently from NG3, where the lack of contents appeared to be a precise choice during the development, not sure about how Hayashi's teamwork could think that this was a good idea). About the reason because they eventually released DoA5 even if incomplete, the answer is always the same in similar cases: because the company that finances them care more for the money than for the work behind it.
"But I'm amazed at how those who don't "kiss ass" need to chill." I like rarely posts where there is "strong" statements just for this reason, because usually I don't agree with them and could bring to a misunderstand from my part. It wasn't my intention to say how XZero that who don't agree has to be quiet, on the opposite they have to make hear their opinion. My agreement was just on the part about him considering DoA5LR enough for justifying an update (and by the way I say it even if I was expecting much more me too).
PS: By the way Ultimate is never been a DLC
I was just expressing my opinion (read my answer to IntelligentAlpha over), I wasn't saying that the majority agree with me and definitely if people wish for more like I've already said it's right that they are fighting for them: if the majority of the people want it, then should be a right of the developers try to fulfill their wishes (and like I said, be sure that I wouldn't spit over more contents XD).
By the way I also expressed the thought that could be more content that need to be revealed before the release or as free/paid additions after, I don't discard this hypotehsis so far.
"But I'm amazed at how those who don't "kiss ass" need to chill." I like rarely posts where there is "strong" statements just for this reason, because usually I don't agree with them and could bring to a misunderstand from my part. It wasn't my intention to say how XZero that who don't agree has to be quiet, on the opposite they have to make hear their opinion. My agreement was just on the part about him considering DoA5LR enough for justifying an update (and by the way I say it even if I was expecting much more me too).
PS: By the way Ultimate is never been a DLC
I was just expressing my opinion (read my answer to IntelligentAlpha over), I wasn't saying that the majority agree with me and definitely if people wish for more like I've already said it's right that they are fighting for them: if the majority of the people want it, then should be a right of the developers try to fulfill their wishes (and like I said, be sure that I wouldn't spit over more contents XD).
By the way I also expressed the thought that could be more content that need to be revealed before the release or as free/paid additions after, I don't discard this hypotehsis so far.
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
@Kronin
Okay, but they still could have waited, but what did they do? We got a watered down Vanilla and then the stuff that's in 5U now for consoles, they spread that over portables! I'm sure you know how pissed console users were, thus, the Ultimate disc! The things they took from the portables and ported over to consoles, I consider DLC since this stuff was not in Vanilla! DOA2 did this, and I made the same argument regarding MK3 because that was essentially the same thing; yet, NRS with MK has never done it since (KE was one edition as was UE with Injustice - not three!)
Tag? Nice implement, but it wasn't new! 4 had it! Online? 2 and 4 had this!
I get it, but I don't! This is why I'm going off the cuff! We keep getting the same stuff: Stages, Characters, Costumes, but more and more keeps coming! This is why I said: Ultimate was enough (of course, there's 2). Oddly, folks gripe about sports games with yearly releases that are nothing more than roster updates - somehow that argument is valid since there are 50 editions of the same game! That most probably let slide since they tune into those same sports to spectate year after year. Shooters? CoD takes the damn cake! IOW, they have a legit excuse! DOA or any other fighting game doesn't!
"Moola!" I think I hear the cash cow!
Okay, but they still could have waited, but what did they do? We got a watered down Vanilla and then the stuff that's in 5U now for consoles, they spread that over portables! I'm sure you know how pissed console users were, thus, the Ultimate disc! The things they took from the portables and ported over to consoles, I consider DLC since this stuff was not in Vanilla! DOA2 did this, and I made the same argument regarding MK3 because that was essentially the same thing; yet, NRS with MK has never done it since (KE was one edition as was UE with Injustice - not three!)
Tag? Nice implement, but it wasn't new! 4 had it! Online? 2 and 4 had this!
I get it, but I don't! This is why I'm going off the cuff! We keep getting the same stuff: Stages, Characters, Costumes, but more and more keeps coming! This is why I said: Ultimate was enough (of course, there's 2). Oddly, folks gripe about sports games with yearly releases that are nothing more than roster updates - somehow that argument is valid since there are 50 editions of the same game! That most probably let slide since they tune into those same sports to spectate year after year. Shooters? CoD takes the damn cake! IOW, they have a legit excuse! DOA or any other fighting game doesn't!
"Moola!" I think I hear the cash cow!
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I already said that I had agreed w/ you on the LR statements. DOA4 wasn't milked because Itagaki stated that he hates DLC. Plus, I agree. A game shouldn't need to have as many versions as DOA5 does. 5U was only made because people wanted what DOA5+ had on Vita to come to consoles, and they wanted the characters that were missing to come back into DOA with 5. And the many many MANY requests of Momiji and Rachel. 5U was made in appreciation of the fan's requests, without marketing the whole thing as DLC. With LR, none of us know why they decided to develop it, but it's happening, and we're gonna have to deal. But, we need at least ONE of the stages to come on Xbox 360/PS3. Like come on.
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Last Round is primarily about launching on the new consoles. The lesser version being on last gen shouldn't be a surprise at this point as lesser versions have already been showing up from multiplatform titles. The state of the community right now is utterly pathetic. If you want the best version, buy a new console. If you don't or can't do that, you still get the actual gameplay changes for free. Feel free to disagree but the way everyone is whining like TN collectively punched them in the face is truly sad.
I like to think of it like Smash Bros on 3DS and Wii U. Wii U has more stages and more content overall than the 3DS version. Because the Wii U version is the main selling point. LR's main selling point is the current gen (By that, I mean XBO/PS4) consoles, and if TN were going to add in the stages to the Xbox 360, then they'd have to build it off of the hardware on the weaker console. Which means: @Tyaren and more people will be complaining about floor textures. I have a feeling that the stages will be exclusive for a limited time, and then reworked to then function on the X360/PS3.
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Intelligent Alpha
Well-Known Member
@CyberEvil
Launching an "Update." That is the problem - just to have a "launch title." DOA6 could have been more than applicable. The franchise spans console generations anyway! But take only one game through four generations ... As bad as DOA2 was, how could this not be possible? They launch 4 for 360; you have 5 and 5U - launch 6 on XBO! It's not about what we can/can't, do/don't get, we already get too freakin' much. It has to do with what is being taken from us or us giving to them, but getting nothing in return!
DOAN said it best: to the casual gamer, the 'perceived' lacking product we have so far means nothing. Yet, to the hardcore player ...
A whole alot of stuff happened in 5U because people "whined," but stuff happened! That's the point! Entitled? Maybe, but we are buying what you're selling! I think that's fair that we should have a say! It's a matter of principle!
Launching an "Update." That is the problem - just to have a "launch title." DOA6 could have been more than applicable. The franchise spans console generations anyway! But take only one game through four generations ... As bad as DOA2 was, how could this not be possible? They launch 4 for 360; you have 5 and 5U - launch 6 on XBO! It's not about what we can/can't, do/don't get, we already get too freakin' much. It has to do with what is being taken from us or us giving to them, but getting nothing in return!
DOAN said it best: to the casual gamer, the 'perceived' lacking product we have so far means nothing. Yet, to the hardcore player ...
A whole alot of stuff happened in 5U because people "whined," but stuff happened! That's the point! Entitled? Maybe, but we are buying what you're selling! I think that's fair that we should have a say! It's a matter of principle!
Developing a new engine and a new game is massive, expensive undertaking. Establishing a franchise presence AND getting an engine up and running on the new platforms is much smarter for a smaller studio. Team NINJA is not a large studio and people seem to forget that. They need to prove to corporate that DoA is still viable and this is a very good way to do that.
Who would even be enticed to buy a new console for the game's offering? Last Round is something you'd buy as a stocking stuffer to go with a game that actual has value and content.