DOA5LR Bass General Discussion: World Champion Edition

[UncleKitchener]

I've been looking at situations where Bass can fall a bit short and post- is one of them if you don't get more than the usual 0+ on block. Since this ends up being an issue against characters with fast mids or high crush elbows, it's important to prioritise the options available in case such situation occurs.

would be a good example since she has a 13i mid which can crush and a 12i low. She also has standing which trades with your standing and it's better to attempt to trade against this move when you're at +2 with your own standing . (15i) is also a tool often used by Ayane players since it's a high crush and a counter hit move they abuse.

Looking at the list you might feel a bit intimidated, but you'll still playing against a human being that can make mistakes or underestimate you. It's a good idea to condition an opponent to consider his WR and low OH as potential threats against her highs and . The main problem ends up being her mids especially her and . Let's just say her mid punches are an issue the same way Bass' mid kicks are a major threat and you don't want to be caught ducking.

Now, once both parties realise this, one would be tempted to start holding (you) and the other to maybe throw or go for or something risky. Mid lunch hold may seem tempting, same with high holds, so if you guess the high hold wrong, the both or end up hitting you on normal hit and you're both back to square one. If you're caught holding you get for your attempt and take damage.

I wouldn't recommend sidestepping since she has a ridiculous number of tracking moves but sometimes it's better to just block and fuzzy guard and wait for the other player to make a mistake. Ayane is not a very safe character and you can reverse the flow of pressure with smart thinking.

A similar strategy is also viable against other characters like Genfu, Christie and Jann Lee since they also have 11i mid and threatening mid punches with crushing or other spacial properties.

Bass is not an abare character in any way but even holding can be considered a major offensive move in such a situation when you've switched the momentum towards a potential win.

Imo, knowing your range game and being able to squeeze out those extra plus frames from , treating the move more as a whiff punisher and range tool is more important than using it as something offensive.

 

[UncleKitchener]

It's been years since we all started with DOA5 Bass, so now it's time to talk about the meta-game:

I've played and written a lot about this one character, so I ended up understanding a lot about how a character like Bass can operate in a fairly strike heavy game with loads of stuns. People don't enjoy being thrown and they don't like getting caught with OHs. Taking his strengths and weaknesses into consideration, puts this character in a unique placement in the game where he can potentially beat any match-up with good planning and put any character under pressure without losing momentum.

While it's difficult getting in, it's really not as much of a challenge if your fundementals are good and you know the ranged options a character has. That leaves other things like mix ups and reversing pressure with good punishment or holding. There aren't that many options in this game where you'd be under so much pressure that you'd have to guess between standing or crouch blocking, so there's always a way out.

The name of the game is 'simplicity' and if you try to complicate things for yourself, you're going to make things much harder. Every move can potentially be useful but you generally need only around ten moves to be effective. This doesn't take throws and OHs into considerations since most of them are effective except for a few which are situational ( & ). This leaves you a few key strikes to choose from. Here's a list of what I've found to be key strikes to use:










There's no particular order of importance for these moves. Each is useful in a particular situation and helps with using your throws. Using your strikes along with OHs helps with better conditioning of an opponent in order to use your throws and end a round quickly.

Nitaku or 50/50 strike/throw situations are ideal for this character as he has solid safe mids and throws. This helps Bass in deciding a round with two or three solid guesses with further options for reset. A raw is a 1/6 of a bar and a TFBB is close to a 1/3 (29%), meaning that three TFBBs and a solid strike can end a match.

Fishing for holds and throw punishing them can end a round far more effectively as two solid guesses and a strike/OH closes the deal. Situational awareness is also key to getting high damage as walls, cliffs and ceilings make for great damage boosts. The right choice can make all the difference.

Throw punishment is absolutely vital, so learning the match up and the appropriate punishment can carry you far. Bass is very capable of punishing pretty much any unsafe move starting from -7. This gives him a distinct advantage as his main punished, is a reset throw which starts his momentum and leaves the opponent guessing.

I hope this helps new players and Bass newbies on how to approach this character.

 

[Rich Nixon]

It's been years since we all started with DOA5 Bass, so now it's time to talk about the meta-game:

I've played and written a lot about this one character, so I ended up understanding a lot about how a character like Bass can operate in a fairly strike heavy game with loads of stuns. People don't enjoy being thrown and they don't like getting caught with OHs. Taking his strengths and weaknesses into consideration, puts this character in a unique placement in the game where he can potentially beat any match-up with good planning and put any character under pressure without losing momentum.

While it's difficult getting in, it's really not as much of a challenge if your fundementals are good and you know the ranged options a character has. That leaves other things like mix ups and reversing pressure with good punishment or holding. There aren't that many options in this game where you'd be under so much pressure that you'd have to guess between standing or crouch blocking, so there's always a way out.

The name of the game is 'simplicity' and if you try to complicate things for yourself, you're going to make things much harder. Every move can potentially be useful but you generally need only around ten moves to be effective. This doesn't take throws and OHs into considerations since most of them are effective except for a few which are situational ( & ). This leaves you a few key strikes to choose from. Here's a list of what I've found to be key strikes to use:










There's no particular order of importance for these moves. Each is useful in a particular situation and helps with using your throws. Using your strikes along with OHs helps with better conditioning of an opponent in order to use your throws and end a round quickly.

Nitaku or 50/50 strike/throw situations are ideal for this character as he has solid safe mids and throws. This helps Bass in deciding a round with two or three solid guesses with further options for reset. A raw is a 1/6 of a bar and a TFBB is close to a 1/3 (29%), meaning that three TFBBs and a solid strike can end a match.

Fishing for holds and throw punishing them can end a round far more effectively as two solid guesses and a strike/OH closes the deal. Situational awareness is also key to getting high damage as walls, cliffs and ceilings make for great damage boosts. The right choice can make all the difference.

Throw punishment is absolutely vital, so learning the match up and the appropriate punishment can carry you far. Bass is very capable of punishing pretty much any unsafe move starting from -7. This gives him a distinct advantage as his main punished, is a reset throw which starts his momentum and leaves the opponent guessing.

I hope this helps new players and Bass newbies on how to approach this character.

True words. I also like 66p for characters with low profiles. Very useful true mid since 6p, 6k, 3k, and 66k can be crushed.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I would also add 2P, WR 4P+K, and 6P+K to the list.

 

[UncleKitchener]

True words. I also like 66p for characters with low profiles. Very useful true mid since 6p, 6k, 3k, and 66k can be crushed.

I feel like 66p and 214p fall into the same category of true mids and that makes them interchangeable, but I decided to list the one with frame advantage for new players since they need the frames. Still both moves and 8p are great for the crush-heavy MUs like Helena and Brad though I still suggest against Christie/Lei Fang.

I would also add 2P, WR 4P+K, and 6P+K to the list.

Not sure about 6p+k but I definitely agree with 2p and WR 4p+k. I would promote 41236p+k over WR 4p+k for new players (especially after 6h+p for full effect) until they get more accustomed to his range and stun game. The main reason is that the move requires good understanding of his BT game and 66k is a better move to start with.

 

[UncleKitchener]

I think I've finally figured out the intended applications of the slower moves in Bass' arsenal, specifically 214P, 1p+k, 4h+k and 46p. 44p+k's use still eludes me and imo it's one of those doa4 leftovers that ends up being a high.

The first move, 214P(27i) is the most useful out of all of the above moves with tracking, GB (+3), launch and as a ranged tool. This move is the best post-CB if a power launcher option is not available.

1p+k is one of the more common slow moves players use for the frame advantage, high crush and just the general intimidation factor. This is a good move for pressure and does fit into one unholdable setup against the wall but its speed can also a deterrent for when an opponent can hold this on reaction.

4h+k ends up being a curious case as it's incredibly slow and its usefulness is most apparent as a move which fits into stun situations where a knowledgeable abare-heavy player can be conditioned with something completely unexpected. This can used either to get a GB or a ground throw as it causes a hard knockdown on hit. The biggest issue with this move ends up being its startup as it takes ages to come out and further reinforces its use as an anti-hold move. Usually, a trained eye can start seeing moves at 19-20 frames and able to visually react to them but surprisingly, this may be the least held move in the entire game. Would've been nice if Bass had a Spanish inquisitor costume to go with this move.

This leaves the biggest black sheep of this category (not counting moves from 2p+k) and that is 46p. The fact that this move is as slow as a regular Tekken unblockable, see able from a mile away and the initial GB is 0, makes this probably the most gimmicky moves in his arsenal and a ranged tool for catching players unprepared. At 42i startup, this is his second slowest GB (the first being 2p+k p+k) and has a decent range. It comes with the added incentive of giving a guaranteed ground throw on hit. The best use of this moves really comes in enclosed levels and after certain oki situations such as post-TFBB as a ranged setup for beating anticipated wakeup kicks and as a get in tool (there are still better ways of getting in). You'd probably never fully charge this move unless you want your guaranteed ground throw gone and want to get a free launch on GB. At 62i full charge, you better off running in and throwing instead, but the fact that this option exists might...I'm sorry I don't know where I was going with that. This is a pretty terrible move even as a ranged tool and only fits into very select few situations that it's better off left alone. There is no justification for using this move when you have better tools in your arsenal (yes, I know I'm repeating myself).

That leaves only 44p+k which is left unused these days but it's still worth experimenting with since it also has good range, tracks (!) and at 36i (a frame slower that 4h+k) and +8 on block, is a good nitaku pressure tool against the wall. One glaring issue of this move is that it's high, meaning that in a game with silly crushes, it could be avoided in most situations.
One unique feature of this move however is the built in free step which is useful for beating some jumping mix ups and moves such as Lisa's jumping shenanigans and Momiji's double-jump mix ups. Generally, anything which counts as jumping or slow enough to be stepped around can be stepped with 44p+k and strike an opponent in the back.

 

[Matt Ponton]

46P also will avoid lows and he'll literally defy gravity by stopping before landing if fully charged, enough to avoid low attacks at that point still. I generally just use it after a stage transition or 41236H+P H+P juggle ender to get in close and beat them mashing wake-up. Abare of course like you said, but does a great bit of damage if connecting on counter hit, which is why I use it when I have a great damage lead. Since it's jumping I also beleive that anyone with the exception of Rachel will not get any juggle off the "Air Mid Punch" attack.

 

[UncleKitchener]

46P also will avoid lows and he'll literally defy gravity by stopping before landing if fully charged, enough to avoid low attacks at that point still. I generally just use it after a stage transition or 41236H+P H+P juggle ender to get in close and beat them mashing wake-up. Abare of course like you said, but does a great bit of damage if connecting on counter hit, which is why I use it when I have a great damage lead. Since it's jumping I also beleive that anyone with the exception of Rachel will not get any juggle off the "Air Mid Punch" attack.

For 62i it better defy gravity, though I've seen this move crush mids, which is not surprising considering how he's trying to qualify for the NBA by jumping so high. My only problem would be the fact that you can't get a ground throw at full charge. Fully charge sumo stomp give one but 46[[p]] doesn't, which is kind of sad considering the risk of being held so easily.

However, I'd still use 6h+k as a better wake up whiff punisher, low crush and get-in move. 6h+k is just a more practical version of 46p with less range and damage and I can totally live with that.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Here's something fun to try out:

Pick Alpha as training dummy and record this:

(transition into FAKE) into
Block the first string and do before she does FAKE
????
Profit

 

[Lulu]

Can she be air thrown while F.L.O.A.T.ing ? Once time I used Sarah's on her and I got the air version..... I was wondering if the samething would work with a straight up air throw.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Can she be air thrown while F.L.O.A.T.ing ? Once time I used Sarah's on her and I got the air version..... I was wondering if the samething would work with a straight up air throw.

20 frames moves are guaranteed to hit regardless, that's why Bass' will work on all her float options especially during the cancel since she's considered airborne early recovery. Anything between 20-22 frames is guaranteed to work and hit in the air.

 

[Lulu]

Interesting.....
That has to be one of the hardest stances to develope counter strategues for because page one of the move details is absolutely useless

 

[UncleKitchener]

For people having issues with using after dashes, I'd recommend buffering a beforehand to reset the buffer window.

The game normally has a 10 frame buffer window for inputs and 2 frames for buttons buffering, so this works well. I adopted this when playing nyotengu and trying to pressure more with her throw, but this also works with Bass.

I would still recommend buffering an early dash after a successful to not accidentally stop your dash prematurely with a badly timed . Otherwise, this is a good way of not accidentally getting instead.

Another buffer trick which I found in Doa5 vanilla and is still around involves a constant while-rising buffer is to enter crouch dash and while in crouching state or during crouch recovery, continously do for the duration which you wish to stay in WR state and buffer for both TFBB and WR . I haven't found many situations for this outside of deep stun and honestly it's not awfully useful, but it should give you a better idea of how you can manipulate crouch recovery.

 

[Lulu]

The game normally has a 10 frame buffer window for inputs and 2 frames for buttons buffering, so this works well.

I don't understand the 2nd part.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I don't understand the 2nd part.

You press a button, it takes 33ms for the response to occur in the game.

 

[Lulu]

Isn't that just Input Lag ?

 

[Matt Ponton]

Isn't that just Input Lag ?

Technically speaking no, though it is lag. It's the system's core delay. Input lag or Input delay generally refers to any lag on top of that core delay.

 

[Lulu]

Technically speaking no, though it is lag. It's the system's core delay. Input lag or Input delay generally refers to any lag on top of that core delay.

LoL.... just when I think I'm understand this game.......

Anway Thanks for sharing.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Decided to do some optimization on some super launcher combos in certain situations:

In stages with ceiling with the opponent's back is facing the wall:
:[[H]]::[[P]]: ( or > ) (Universal)


In stages with heavy-bounce walls (Fuel & The Show) with the opponent's back facing the wall:
:[[H]]::[[P]]: > > ()
:[[H]]::[[P]]: > > (Alpha, L, M)
:[[H]]::[[P]]: : > > (Heavy)
Easy 50%+ damage.



Happy new year.

 

[UncleKitchener]

I'll be doing a tutorial video soon once I get my hands on a capture device. I'll cover some basics and other advanced options like oki, mix ups, punishment, range game and maybe some unholdable setups.

Anyone want to suggest anything specific? I'd like to do some environmental stuff too if it doesn't end up running for too long.

Otherwise I'll just do a series of stuff and start another thread for it.