Current State of the UK DOA Community

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
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Hi, I'm Kitch and I'm a guy at London's Heart of Gaming Arcade in the North Acton area and I organizes monthly DOA tourneys.

This has been a topic that I thought necessary to address here as I don't have other platforms and this is crucial to the UK community's offline survival as a whole because most of us are either very scattered, lazy or just don't think that spending so much money to come to tournaments with small turnouts is really worth it.

Keep in mind that this is going to be a very long write-up, but I would very much appreciate it if you read through, especially if your are a player in UK, Ireland and even neighboring countries or other parts of Europe.

I'm also coming from the point-of-view of a tournament organizer and a player, so I'm accustomed to hearing what people have to say both positive and negative. It's not something which I accepted because I wanted to do it, but something which the community and the high-level players told me to do, because there wasn't anyone else willing to do this or know about the game). If a tournament fails or there is a low turnout, then it's my fault for not trying hard enough like, for example, not being able to properly promote it and getting in touch with people.

People are always going to have small problems and issues that would prevent them from not making it to a tourney and won't blame them, it's their choice. If a tourney succeeds, I will fully praise them because they deserve all the credit for trying and getting together because they deserve all of it. I'm like the guy on the street handing out leaflets anyway and I'm not even good at the game right now.

I understand that you can't expect turnouts to be the same or higher all the time. I know that you can't suddenly have a whole lot of new people out of nowhere and I also know it's a very slow process where you need to make connections and keep in contact.

I believe that there are some issues that you could help me with to build this community. Blow are a few points I want to make. Keep in mind I'm simply pouring everything I have in my mind to give a better picture and I'm not a fantastic writer.


Not enough people playing DOA
This game is not hard to play and it certainly does not have a difficult execution barrier like Tekken, it's not mentally taxing like Virtua Fighter or it doesn't have hard links or combos like SFIV or KOFXIII. Hell, there are really no Just-Frames outside of inescapable combo grabs. Granted, those are completely different games with their own mechanics, but what confuses me is that not enough people are playing these games. Hell, there are more people playing BlazBlue, AC3 and even Chaos Code than DOA.

So, why is that? I sure as hell don't know. I just see that as a result of people either dropping DOA completely after DOA4 (many many people did, according to old school players), people being lazy or just not wanting to show up to weekly sessions or people out there just not knowing where to go and how to get into contact with offline players and enter tournaments.

Keep in mind that if you play online, then I won't have any way of communicating with you or knowing you simply because I don't like DOA online. For example, the only UK DOA player I know from online is stevo_uk, so that's pretty much it.


The Reputation
DOA has a rough reputation in UK. We all know that. I don't think I can do anything about it unless people show up and show their support for the games (that is if they don't dress up as Furry McYiff Pony or something equally stupid). I mean, so what if you're labeled a 'wasteman'? It shouldn't bother you. London heads should know what I'm talking about. It's very common to hear passersby and other people just talk trash the game. DOA players shouldn't care, that is if they're having fun with the game.

We have fantastic players. Really great people who know the game extremely well and have been playing for years. It would be a huge shame if they don't get to show off their skills.


Problems with FSD
This is not me having problems with FSD. The UK community simply don't seem to be roaming FSD much. This is not Mr. Wah or Admins' fault. It's simply because they feel "there are too many idiots". Now, every FG forum is bound to have their fair share of people who you might not like, but this is something that they're really vocal about when on FSD. I won't name any names, but they are regular members on this site, but they tend to keep out of things like general game discussion and character sub-forums. Some characters which they play are really underrepresented as well or not at all documented or containing the wrong information.

In general people feel both unwelcome and offended by a lot of people. We some very good players in UK and we're not a bunch of snobs who drink tea all day and wipe our arseholes with golden tissues.


People Scattered
This problem is complemented by the one above and because of this, it becomes a bit more difficult finding new players.


The Current Competitive Attitude and its Problems
With the rise of E-sports and streams, I feel that some members of the community are too focused on getting their names out there rather than coming over for weeklies and playing the game against people. This isn't a thing right now in the community as far as I know, but it can worry me because we got a small community and if a local player decides to simply turn up for tournaments and not participate in casuals, then that won't be very good as no one beside that player would be leveling up and the scene would start declining.

I think I've poured out enough on the table for now. Please discuss.
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Well I'm no longer in the UK .. but I feel ya bro ..

even tournament organizers themselves had little to no respect for DOA ..
(I think you guys recall what happened at i46 .. despite working my ass off to get them to provide 8 copies of the gamescom build and a shit ton of prizes and giveaways including the signed posters by hayashi)

Plus its very hard right now for the UK FGC because of the huge divide ...
we got the HOGs and we got the UMs ..

Plus as you stated, Tekken is just so much bigger there when it comes to 3d games.

God knows I tried ..
I even got chin to come down to one of our monthly's on release and he even brought a free hori doa stick for xbox as a giveaway ...

But whatever u wanna do man, even though I'm no longer there I will still do my best to back you up. I still consider the UK community as my own.
 

TheoryFighter

New Member
Why not just set up some casuals during one of the weekly tournaments like LSF? It might help drum up some attention for the game from people that haven't given it a shot and i get the feeling 2D players might be more inclined to try it out over the 3D crowd.
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Why not just set up some casuals during one of the weekly tournaments like LSF? It might help drum up some attention for the game from people that haven't given it a shot and i get the feeling 2D players might be more inclined to try it out over the 3D crowd.

they do that at the hog every week ...
 

Malesoun

Member
I'm up in Scotland and I would love to be getting involved in weekly meetups. However I have a young family and work six days a week, balancing these two is hard work as it is so I am resigned to online at the moment. It's even harder still when I have to travel a good 30 miles to find a fighting game meetup and DoA isn't favoured.

To be honest, I think a lot of people do not take the game seriously, they think the game is all about the females and their breasts and don't take the time to appreciate the game for what it really is. :(
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
This all boils down to people getting in touch and showing their support.You wok 6 days a week? I'll keep setting tourneys up for Sunday. This is why I've been hard pushing DOA into slots that the majority would find favorable.

they do that at the hog every week ...

I try. I'm gonna do it on busy week days like Wednesday and Thursday. No one seems to show up on fridays and people have stuff to do on Saturdays somehow.

But I do know most of these are excuses and I need to be harder on people.
 

PJudge

Well-Known Member
I've been meaning to get over to HOG for a long time actually. I've been wanting to get along to some events, get involved with DOA, and with DOA5 I think I'll actually get off my ass and do something about it, finally.

Part of me not doing anything used to be because I didn't have any locals, and didn't have the money to travel, but now I live in Greenwich, so I can't actually give any other excuses apart from a) I've been adjusting to moving house, my job, etc, b) I'm being lazy about it at the moment, and c) I went off DOA5 a lot, and picked up Injustice instead.

I am more than happy to come and add myself to a community, as I'd really like it. I don't think being lazy is an excuse for me any more. My only reservation these days is waiting for Ultimate, but as I said, I'll come and poke my head in and play on my next free day if it means helping to add life to something.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Kitch your situation largely reminds me of what ours was like when DOA 4 killed everything off. We had to ride people really hard to get them to travel for anything, but typically it was 3.1.Once DOA 5 hit we did a lot better, but I like to think some of that was because of the small seeds we had been planting over the years.

The important thing is to keep trying. It sounds like there's some general prejudice against the game going on in the UK, but the only way to get that to go away is to force them to get used to the game being a presence.

We still get shit in places like Texas, but you rarely hear people talk shit to DOA players in Philly. That's cause we kept at it and made them know we were gonna keep coming back. Also because the majority of top DOA players have a consistent history invading other games and fucking people up.
 

Berzerk!

Well-Known Member
Australia checking in. It's tough for any small game. DOA5 is still building its community. It took about years of regularly representing Virtua Fighter at events and having a small group of regulars, for VF5FS to come out and make it a solid second tier game in all of our tournaments here.
And mind you, that's only Melbourne with Sydney close behind for regulars. The other states still don't really have a scene for the game.

For DOA, the crossover from VF has helped attract players (the same core group, some of whom also play SC5, or KOF), but getting the word out to dedicated DOA players takes time, because they tend to be "outside" the regular FGC and we need to be open, consistent, and persistent to bring new players in.

The great thing about that for TO's and FGC as a whole is that DOA CAN bring completely new people to gatherings.

But it's slow going. The launch of DOA5 in September last year meant we had wrapped all our major events but one (BAM, the same week), and then the whole scene pretty much went on hiatus - hard to build without playtime.

All I can say is the game is good, players will respond, and just keep plugging away.

And the message for players - if you like your game - find your local scene and turn up. Win, lose, whatever. Play lots of casuals besides the tournament. Talk to other players. The scene can grow, but it takes regular effort at the grassroots level.

The good thing is any effort made since September last year will be bolstered by the release of DOA5U as people's attention goes back to the game.
 

Berzerk!

Well-Known Member

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
I would love this, since I'm gonna be taking DoA a bit more seriously with 5U before I just casually played it against bots on easy etc. but now I'm trying to learn the game and get better with my characters. and something like this will help me especially since it's offline so I wouldn't have to worry about online lag/delay etc.

The only major problem will be getting to London, I'm kinda short of funds as I'm unemployed atm... I'll probably be breaking the bank just getting 5U as well as everything else I need, as for getting more players maybe after 5U comes out I can try and get a few friends into the game as you say DoA is easy to pick up so and some of my friends can be pretty competitive if that works out maybe we can come down together every few weeks.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Thank you everyone for your advice and good words. I really appreciate it.


To those who are considering coming to a DOA tourney in the coming week, then consider this:

http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...t-of-gaming-doa5-doa2u-doa2m-scv-london.3032/

I'd like to thank HuBBs for being a great sport and helping me out with putting these event at the top and also fixing my stupid errors.

By the way, specifically for the UK - Kitch, you should talk to players and organisers going to SEGA CUP EUROPE for VF and see if you can get a side tournament or casuals area for DOA.

http://virtuafighter.com/threads/sega-cup-europe-registrations-closing-and-warm-up-recap.18097/

At the very least, turn up and talk to players. The strong crossover between VF and DOA is great, but DOA still needs an advocate

I will talk to the organizer soon. You made a good point.
 

Snipa

New Member
The game seems quite dead in general, in this day and age online counts for alot.

It may not be perfect but if people cant play online and learn then create a community between there friends and hardcore players its not going to get anywhere.

I played DOAU2 and DOA4 religiously on XBOX/360 online and competed in alot of XBL tournaments (Reyes1904/Quickshot Snipa) people might remember me or not but i never played LAN for the reason i was only i guess 14-16 at the time and im now 22 picked up DOA5 day 1 for PS3 and online was pretty inactive at release or just plain boring compared to DOAU2/4 and is practically dead now with hardly anyone holding any sort of events for it.

If i was 22 when i played DOAU2/4 i would of attended every event possible, but DOA5 something is missing and im not sure what. I will be purchasing DOA5U around day 1 or maybe a bit later depending on what i read about it and if the community is going to pick up.
The loss of IGN's DOA tournaments is a big blow but we need something or someone else to step up.

Im watching EVO as i type this and DOA is not there, yet the list of fighting games that is there is quite long.
SF4AE,TTT2,UMC3,MK9,Injustice,SmashBros,KOF13,Persona4.
Why no DOA? What is the reason? its not like Evo is anti 3d fighters considering it supported Soul Calibur for a while along with Tekken still.

If HOG promotes some online tournaments, maybe winner gets a free weekend pass or something i would be happy to play then attend when i can but right now its not worth it.
The community need to start streaming more on twitch/ustream, request the game at there local LAN's. (I tried with EGL at release but they scoffed at it)

Otherwise its going to stay a underground type game with almost no exposure.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Hey, Berzerk. I did ask, but unfortunately the answer is no and this is VF-only event.

If HOG promotes some online tournaments, maybe winner gets a free weekend pass or something i would be happy to play then attend when i can but right now its not worth it.
The community need to start streaming more on twitch/ustream, request the game at there local LAN's. (I tried with EGL at release but they scoffed at it)

Otherwise its going to stay a underground type game with almost no exposure.

I've never heard of an arcade that would give out £20 worth of a weekly pass for online tourneys. I will show this to both Firebug and BulletProof, but I'm pretty sure their answer would be no.

Also, this is one type of attitude I dislike; 'hand me the magic rug and maybe I will support the game'. People are spending a lot of money (primary example in the community being Grunt Dude) every month to support this game and some aren't even from London (again, Grunt Dude). Now obviously, it would have been everyone's wet dream to have sponsorship and all that shit, but a game needs to be established enough that it gets the attention of sponsors in the first place.

The only way you're going to see the game on streams more is when there is good demand for it and for that to happen, people need to be there in reasonable numbers so that streamers will actually put it on more often. If there is demand for it, then the streamers will supply it.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!

Kinda sounds like you want an excuse to get paid more than an excuse to compete.

To be perfectly honest, I hope people like you aren't the seeds getting planted in the UK right now for the next generation of DOA. We have enough weeds as it is over here that we still haven't managed to get rid of, and that attitude is the primary cause.
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Snipa said:

The game is still being played in the UK. My friend list still has people from all over including Londoners who still play this game religiously on a daily basis.

Online tournaments? You're missing the point. The point of a community is to gather up and meet other people who share a common interest, make friends, create rivalries, level up together, and maybe even travel together for majors. The tournament aspect is the least important of all aspects. Think about it, if 2 or 9000 attend a tournement, at the end of the day only 1 will win. Now surely you are expected to play to win at events.. but you can see that its really not the point.

People with that kind of mentality usually miss out on the whole social aspect of it and think "whats the point if im not gonna win?" The point is, you get to be a part of something along with people from all over who share the same interest, you make new friends, you take your losses with you and see how you can improve, or simply just play for fun.

Offline is way superior, for 1 thing u get to see the opponents face, for another people tend to be on a different behavior offline, and most importantly, you get to play the game free from all setbacks and impurities such as input lag, rage quits and glitches.

The HOG right now is a great outlet for the UK FGC, not just for DOA, but for all fighting games (and fifa lol).. in a community where arcades are literally dying everywhere, places like the HOG are the next best thing. This is not to mention that there is an amazing selection of arcades at the hog and they're all free to play all day, you just pay the entry fee for the day or weekend pass. So u dont just go for 1 game, u go for the whole experience.

All that being said, thats actually not the problem, I've been fighting the fight kitchener was fighting since before the release of the game, people are just not showing up period. DOA is always packed at eurogamer and animecons, so where the hell are these people, be they casuals or competitive, when we have our weekly sessions? (And for dirt cheap might I add) .. i even had a 32 man tourney for the 0.75 build (which got screwed over due to the organizers but thats not the point now)

I understand that the DOA croud for the most part is a different croud, but do u seriously think that every player at the sf booths is Daigo status? There is such thing as just playing for fun. And even if you get royally battered, instead of just ragequitting or going to a room of people with a crap skill level, you can actually talk to the guy that beat you, or other people watching and get tips on how to get better and where u went wrong.

Fighting games are all about offline really. KOF and MK9 with their shittier than DOA5 netcodes stand proof to this.
 

Snipa

New Member
Im not debating offline is superior or not but MK/SF are a different types of games.

SF/MK came out in the 80's and 90's when no internet was around and the only way to play was arcade's and LAN.
DOA also came out before internet was readily available but is obviously nowhere near as big as Street Fighter is, go look at forums its scoffed at. Why? i dont know, just like Tekken is but it seems to be 2d fanboys.

All im stating is for a community to be built now it seems to need a community to start online.

Considering i used to play XBL back in 02 before console LAN's really did anything i have seen a group of gamers i played online with create a LAN which is called EGL. It all started with back with Rainbow Six 3 online as friends a online community and everyone got older a LAN was made and now its Europe's premier LAN for COD/Fifa on console with area's just to plug and play for fun.

Online can be a huge push for community's alike.

HOG is a great idea, i love the concept of a old school arcade area to come and hang out.
Personally the only reason i dont attend something like that is for me to travel to London is going to cost in the region of £60 for travel then accomodation/food to turn up to play for a bit of fun. If i lived there i would attend all the time, there's no places like that locally for me but why are people from London and surrounding areas not going?

Is it exposure? Marketing? Pricing? or does the DOA community just suck in general.

Also to the post starter i was not suggesting give out free weekend passes constantly, it was just a idea for incentive to try market HOG and get people attending.
Unfortunately in this day and age you cant just set something up and hope everyone attends and its a success instantly, i'm just suggesting a bit of marketing online could go along way and maybe a online tournament or something once a month with a free weekend pass to someone would help boost the community and spread the word on HOG.

When i first played DOA2U i had a guy from NeoEmpire join my games on regular occasion and talk to me about it, the community etc and then he offered tournament prizes for online games in the form of money via paypal (not much) or a % off LAN tickets such as SvB.
It was a nice incentive for me to play and join up with the community, unfortunately i was about 14 or so at the time and could not attend any events but the idea was great at the time, it actually made me join NeoEmpire, i found DOAWorld back in the day and now FSD.

Without that guy from NeoEmpire i probably would of never considered playing games in person that are not my friends/family or attend any form of event.

On the idea of streaming, again i am not on about tournaments but just players themselves.
Does HOG get streamed on ustream or twitch by any chance? if not it should just like CafeID etc...
All it takes is a few familiar faces to make people want to watch some DOA and meet these people and have a blast playing with them. See my other thread, there is not really anyone to connect with in DOA unlike SF with Diago/Wong or MK with Perfect Legend.

Maybe when DOA5U comes out things will go on the up, i hope so considering i bought DOA5 day one to play competitively and for a laugh yet everyone who organizes events scoff at DOA which is unfortunate.
I even tried to get it on EGL when DOA5 released, they refused and just stuck with SF4 and Tekken Tag.

I have not meant to come across with a horrible attitude, I'm a huge fan of DOA and really want this community to pick up but right now the incentive is not there.

I usually go to London once every few months to visit my cousin, maybe ill come to HOG with him on one of them and see how it is, as i said for the price of travel just to go to a place like that its not really viable on a regular basis but i could attend once in a while.
 

Crext

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Love what you are doing. Keep at it.

It always starts small, that is just the nature of it. If I ever am in London at a time this is happening I'd be sure to drop by.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Snipa, please stop using terms you don't understand. LAN (Local Area Network) doesn't even apply to Fighting games

Also, regarding the expenses involved with traveling to London monthly for tourneys, there are already many people doing to already, especially for DOA. Unless you're in arse end of nowhere in Scotland, you really have no excuse, unless you're a student or you can't take days off or work on weekends.

Regarding streaming. I've been at the Hog every weekend including fridays and if people show up, then Bulletproof will gladly put it on stream, since he had built Neo Empire years ago as primarily a DOA community forum, which evolved into a much bigger thing.
Yes, we're on twitch : http://www.twitch.tv/thewonderpark

In regards to online actually being the starting point of some communities, uh, I don't know. But one thing is for sure. I've seen games grow faster at the Hog where someone just puts it on in the console area and people just start messing around with it. When I talk to people and ask them of their origins, a very very small handful are actually from online, which leads me to believe that most online players are happy with staying in their own little bubble rather than getting in touch with each other.You can try and convince me otherwise by bringing up examples.

The internet infrastructure in UK isn't even adequate enough to support that sort of environment.


Snipa, please in case you decide to come down to London, send me a PM. I showed your message to Firebug and Bulletproof and they were really upset and close to banning you from the venue.
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Love what you are doing. Keep at it.

It always starts small, that is just the nature of it. If I ever am in London at a time this is happening I'd be sure to drop by.

Honestly it happens all the time...
just bring your copy of the game over to London (and your controller), so that even if no1 else is there, people will actually hop on and start playing you. Its that kind of place.

You will also get to mesh with other crowds of other games be they SF4, MK, Injustice, Persona.. or even old school SFA players or KOF98 players.. the place is awesome and everyone is nice and theres generally a good vibe all over.

Its even worth doing the all nighter thing and just bunking in ..its tons of fun.

just let the guys here know, and Kitchener will hook you up ;) lol ..
I wish I was back in London :(

(I'll be hopefully visiting in the near future .. I'll keep you posted Kitch)
 
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