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D.I.D. 8: Aftermath

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Rikuto

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Zeo said:
I'm seeing a lock coming. I knew this thread was a bad idea from the start and how it was going to end up. What is it with people and Rikuto though? I haven't seen literally one scenario where Rikuto has actually initiated any of these so called debates or arguments yet he always is made to look like the villain by the time it's over with. It's getting annoying.


Unless they have retardedly long startup like Akira's 3P+K. That's a 25 frame attack, it should stun on NH. If you get hit by that it's entirely on you.
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It apparently takes 7 frames to fully crouch guard from neutral (despite what the game says) so unless you're using your zero frame hold on reaction thats actually 18 frames to react. Not saying it can't be done, but you can't just play the scenario safe because it means you HAVE to hold that attack.
 
Skilletor

Skilletor

Active Member
Rikuto said:
It apparently takes 7 frames to fully crouch guard (despite what the game says) so unless you're using your zero frame hold on reaction thats actually 18 frames to react. Not saying it can't be done, but you can't just play the scenario safe because it means you HAVE to hold that attack.
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It takes that long to block a low?
 
Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
Rikuto said:
It apparently takes 7 frames to fully crouch guard from neutral (despite what the game says) so unless you're using your zero frame hold on reaction thats actually 18 frames to react. Not saying it can't be done, but you can't just play the scenario safe because it means you HAVE to hold that attack.
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That is something I did not know. I knew I was blocking low when I would get clipped by a low attack (particularly Helena's BS lows), but I thought it was just the online preventing me from reacting, though I'm sure that helps.

Guess online's not the only thing that needs a buff, crouching does as well. There have even been cases where I would see my character begin the animation to crouch, but my opponent would still land their standing grab on me before my character actually finished crouching. Again I thought it was simply the online but it looks like there are more things the game needs to work on than I thought.
 
Rikuto

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Skilletor said:
It takes that long to block a low?
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According to the game, no. According to our mad scientists, yes.

Theoretically if you sidewalk downward it can block faster? But it's all sketchy ass theory crafting. It's definitely slow, though. It feels slow as hell and I can see myself getting thrown out of animation on a regular basis.
 
Skilletor

Skilletor

Active Member
Rikuto said:
According to the game, no. According to our mad scientists, yes.

Theoretically if you sidewalk downward it can block faster? But it's all sketchy ass theory crafting. It's definitely slow, though. It feels slow as hell and I can see myself getting thrown out of animation on a regular basis.
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No, I've thought something felt wonky with guarding low. This would definitely explain it. Fucking dumb.
 
Scornwell

Scornwell

Active Member
Zeo said:
I'm seeing a lock coming. I knew this thread was a bad idea from the start and how it was going to end up.
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This thread outta die out on it's own soon anyways. After NEC's aftermmath, people will start talking about that just like they are in this thread. All discussion of Helena will either flare up in the tier list discussion or on her board.

Zeo said:
What is it with people and Rikuto though? I haven't seen literally one scenario where Rikuto has actually initiated any of these so called debates or arguments yet he always is made to look like the villain by the time it's over with. It's getting annoying.
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I can't wait to win offline tourneys and receive baseless vitriol from mysterious new members of the community.
 
Rikuto

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Skilletor said:
No, I've thought something felt wonky with guarding low. This would definitely explain it. Fucking dumb.
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I'm fairly certain its unintentional (the game doesn't even think it takes that long), but I intend to ask.


Zeo said:
I'm seeing a lock coming. I knew this thread was a bad idea from the start and how it was going to end up. What is it with people and Rikuto though? I haven't seen literally one scenario where Rikuto has actually initiated any of these so called debates or arguments yet he always is made to look like the villain by the time it's over with. It's getting annoying.
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Really? In the past people kept convincing me it was just my imagination and I was going paranoid. I guess the world really does conspire against me. Well, at least now we've got that part straightened out.
 
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dawnbringer

Active Member
Skilletor said:
It takes that long to block a low?
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No, low block is instant. You need like 7 frames to fully crouch from standing on neutral, but if you are blocking a low attack you will crouch instantly. But you cannot dodge standing throw instantly because of crouching animation.

Edit: more like 4 frames.
 
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dawnbringer

Active Member
Zeo said:
Guess online's not the only thing that needs a buff, crouching does as well. There have even been cases where I would see my character begin the animation to crouch, but my opponent would still land their standing grab on me before my character actually finished crouching. Again I thought it was simply the online but it looks like there are more things the game needs to work on than I thought.
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Non-instant crouch is nothing new. VF has the same thing with throwing an opponent from incomplete crouching animation.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Rikuto said:
According to the game, no. According to our mad scientists, yes.

Theoretically if you sidewalk downward it can block faster? But it's all sketchy ass theory crafting. It's definitely slow, though. It feels slow as hell and I can see myself getting thrown out of animation on a regular basis.
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I've lost count of how many times I've ducked low only to get caught by a throw. Hell a few times OH's have caught me and it gave them a hi-counter while I was ducking low. That could just be the online though.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
So, dumb question: sidestep after force tech: yes or no? How much does that potentially shut down? I know she's got the tracking low from BKO but if she's using a 6p tech she shouldn't be able to utilize that should she? So that would leave 1p, 1k, 2k, 2f+k, I think. Does 1p track? If no that would at least take the low part of the mixup out of the equation and force her to commit to throw/mid mixups. I don't think she has sufficient advantage to use sidestep k into the sweep after the 6p whiff. If she does that's just fucking great then.
 
Nereus

Nereus

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Raansu said:
I've lost count of how many times I've ducked low only to get caught by a throw. Hell a few times OH's have caught me and it gave them a hi-counter while I was ducking low. That could just be the online though.
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Sometimes I can literally see the animation of my character ducking low and I still get hit by a standing grab... Lmao.
 
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shinryu

Active Member
So if the Helena forum is to be believed BKO 2k does work after BKO 6p force or pseudo force tech. If that's true, well, fuck me, I'm on Team Rikuto now. Can't believe I'm saying this: nerf Helena.

Seriously, that means sidesteps lose to throw and low after the force tech. So it is a legit three-way mixup and that low does put her right back in the vortex. I didn't see it in the matches and I didn't think it was possible. God damn. I mean, I guess it's technically a nitaku, but she doesn't need to get the reset on the low if she gets the reset on the throw. Now she wins two out of three on every response except a low block and since she can count on that her mids open up completely. And then you're right back in the same situation.

Seems like an easy fix though; no BKO from BKO 6p should prevent it, if I'm understanding correctly. She can still force tech but it's going to be a mid/throw mixup like everybody else.
 
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